Your Voice Matters

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Your Voice Matters

Published February 10, 2021

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Today’s blog is coming off of the heels of a super successful event that we had with Katie Stoller and Molly Tullis on Clubhouse. WIIM has been hosting a ton of rooms on we’re experimenting like the rest of the world and finding so much success on it. Success to us equals great audience, great listenership, awesome insights and everyone leaving feeling like that was absolutely worth the last hour or two hours of life. Katie and Molly were so gracious enough to contribute their time to a panel that we hosted just last week and at the heels of that conversation, I wanted to invite them on the podcast to have a more in depth conversation with just the two of them.

They both have a history together that they worked together through a couple different companies, which we will tell you all about on during this conversation. It’s such a pleasure having women to chat with who are wildly articulate, humble and knowledgeable at the same time. They bring a wealth of information to the table. And they’re also so fun to chat with. So I’m excited for you all to meet them.

Jessy Grossman:

I think the world of both of you. We recently had a Clubhouse event with both of you and a couple other people and it was so fun. I also love a good group chat. Because isn’t it fun to just chat with girlfriends about fun topics. So, Molly and Katie, welcome. So excited to have you here. I think that it’s great to hear in your own words about how you got into influencer marketing and a little bit about your professional journey so our members have a frame of reference. Katie, do you want to start and introduce yourself to everyone?

Katie Stoller:
Yeah, I’m so excited to be here. This is so fun. I’m actually currently on maternity leave. So having a little chat with two of my girlfriends is exactly what I needed. So this is so great. So thanks Jessy for inviting us on. So my journey through influencer marketing started really down to like traditional PR route. I graduated in 2008. During like, the horrible recession where no one was getting jobs. I went from Chicago to LA to kind of like, figure out what I wanted to do with my life. I call it kind of like my gap year. And there I started working at a boutique PR agency doing traditional PR, so pitching media and getting kind of like, interested in like, where I was gonna fall with PR I was working in fashion, which was really fun in LA. And a lot of what we did was celebrity gifting. I did like all the gifting suites at like the Teen Choice Awards and all that kind of like 2000 Zeitgeist, you know, The Hills and Paris Hilton and all that kind of like world back then, which was so fun. I actually, my claim to fame is that I’m in an us weekly magazine with Kim Kardashian because she came into shop at one of the stores that we represented.

Jessy Grossman:
Hey Katie. That’s impressive.

Katie Stoller:
Yeah, I mean, it’s kind of like a big deal. But yeah, so that’s kind of where I started. And then I ended up coming back to Chicago going to grad school at DePaul, which has an amazing public relations and advertising master’s program. And that kind of like connected me with the agency world started at Ogilvy. And I started in the corporate side. So I was doing B2B Technology, finance, like an unsexy part of PR. But it’s really kind of where I like got my writing chops together and media pitching and kind of the traditional side and then transitioned over the brand marketing side and from there, that was kind of when Instagram was becoming more popular, and stuff was starting to get monetized on social media and influencers were really not a thing yet, but like bloggers were and they were kind of like morphing into these influencer roles. And then from there went to catch them in 2017. So that’s when things were really like more amped up on the influencer space at that point. I mean, stories were actually like, I was just looking back like stories were still like so brand new when I came to catch them, which is like so crazy to think about. But that’s really kind of like where the influencer part of my career like really ramped up. And now I sit on the influencer specialty practices. And we do all the influencer work across the entire agency for brands like Whirlpool, Maytag. We were working with General Mills for a long time, Kimberly Clark, really like big household names that are parent companies to like a bunch of other little brands. Not little but like other brands that you’ve heard of like Kleenex Cottonelle, you know, big huge ones, actually, that are in your household. And most recently, before I was on maternity leave, I was working on IKEA, which has was pretty much my favorite account I’ve ever worked on, it was so fun. And I was working on an eyedropper ran for l con, which is like an AI company, an AI healthcare company. Doing all their influencer work. So now I’m sort of in this like low while I’m off of work, but I’m excited to go back and kind of see what brands will be working on in March when they go back.

Jessy Grossman:
And and you know, to those listening who don’t know, you’re on maternity leave. Yeah?

Katie Stoller:
Yeah. So I have a two year old and I just had a baby in November. So I have my hands full. So if you hear weirdness in the background, that.

Jessy Grossman:
It’s not about that. It’s you’re saying, you know, I’m when I get back to work. So that’s the reason why big life change, which is really exciting and congratulations. I think it’s good to provide a little bit of color to that. So incredible story, it’s really cool to hear like the variety of different brands that you work with a variety of different companies. I think that’s why you bring such a wealth of information. So Molly, also you do very similar, bring a huge wealth of information. But you also know Katie for a while, which is also I wanted to bring both of you on because you guys are so familiar and friendly with each other. So share a little bit about your story and your journey.

Molly Tullis:
Yeah, absolutely. I’m so excited to be here. And definitely so excited to be having this conversation with you. And with Katie. Katie and I go pretty far back, I guess at this point, like probably five or six years, and we’ve worked together on a lot of those clients, you know, every day, so we definitely have a lot of, you know, some of the same opinions and have a lot of experience across different clients. So I actually kind of gotten to influencer marketing in a really funny kind of roundabout, accidental way. So when I was in college, I was at Loyola University here in Chicago, and I was doing what I call like the communications, Holy Trinity. So I was majoring in PR, and then minor in Advertising and Marketing. And for a senior project, I actually started blogging, I just needed a couple credits. I didn’t want to take a full class. So I created a blog and started blogging as a way to just get some credits with like faculty supervision, and ended up doing pretty well for a blog. This was back when, like, you know, they were bloggers, not influencers. You know, we actually had like a website, it wasn’t just a whole social. And I actually ended up like working with Nike and working with Sephora, and I like, flew out and covered some New York Fashion Week stuff. So that was all kind of during my undergrad. And then when I graduated, I ended up going to Ogilvy and Mather. And there I was working on SC Johnson primarily doing social but this was right when brands were starting to like, you know, monetize, and like influencers are becoming a thing and they were like, wow, we really got to get on this train. This is not going away. So I was working on SC Johnson and you know, they I kind of got pulled in to start looking at influencer plans just because they were like, Hey, you blog. Do you kind of know what this world is like, we need your help editing these captions. So kind of got into it that way. And then from Ogilvy and Mather, where I met Katie and then Katie went to catch them and then I followed Katie to catch them and worked there exclusively, pretty much on the influencer practice. So covered everything from campaigns strategy and ideation all the way through to campaign management execution, casting, recap decks, all that good stuff and worked on some of the same clients as Katie. So lots of pretty big CPG brands. So, JM Smucker, I did tons with coffee so like Folgers Cafe boost stello make cafe at home, Dunkin Donuts. I did Jameson Whiskey which was a really fun one did some stuff with Whirlpool and Maytag, Kimberly Clark as well. And then a lot of cookware so all clad groups said t fells and pretty big consumer cookware brands. I was there for about two years and a lot of influencer work with them. And then I actually went in house and I went to Wilson Sporting Goods and I was the global influencer strategist for Wilson Sporting Goods Tennis Division, so for everything Tennis at Wilson Sporting Goods, I was basically the global influencer strategist. So I oversee all of our country markets, created our international influencer strategy, you know, didn’t get to meet Roger Federer, but that’s okay and was able to do a lot of really fun stuff, traveling out to California for Indian Wells Tennis Tournaments and stuff like that. Currently, I’m getting my Master’s in Marketing from King’s College London and I’m transitioning a little bit to brand marketing, but definitely go to sleep, dreaming of captions and, you know, finishing sentences with hashtags on in my head. So I’m super excited to be here. I still think influencer marketing is one of the most exciting spots to be in, I guess, lecture at DePaul and Loyola University on influencer marketing about once a semester. So it’s just one of my favorite topics. And so looking forward to having this chat with you and Katie.

Jessy Grossman:
I mean, that’s I don’t even know where to begin to be honest, like in such a good way. I think that, you know, I’m so happy to have you both on here today. I can’t emphasize it enough. Both of your backgrounds. I mean, I don’t know, I think that it’s incredible where you’ve come from, but also where you are. And I just appreciate the just the perspective. And I also don’t want to like lump you guys in just together just because you’ve been at the same companies, which is why I’ve invited you both on I want each of your perspectives, they know you each bring something really unique to the table. So where do you even start, I think a great place to start for funziz, is I always like to get to know you guys also a little bit more personally, right? It’s so great to hear your professional history. And even like coming on this podcast where the assumption is like, okay, like these women are credible. And seeing your resume were like, Alright, like these women know what they’re talking about. But I also think it’s, it’s fun and important to just get to know a little bit more about you as individuals. So I’m going to ask you some rapid fire fun questions to each of you. And don’t think too much about it. Just answer what comes fastest to your mind. Are you are you both ready?

Molly Tullis:
So ready.

Jessy Grossman:
Amazing. Okay, I’m going to ask you both individually, so you each know when to answer. So, I’ll start with Molly. So Molly, I’m the best age to be?

Molly Tullis:
Ooh, I’m gonna say current age 27.

Jessy Grossman:
You were only 20. Oh my gosh. Okay, that’s like a whole other conversation. Holy shit.

Katie Stoller:
Literally. Gonna Say 27 that’s like scary I literally was gonna say.

Jessy Grossman:
Really? Oh my gosh, okay, you guys

Katie Stoller:
We’re on the same page today.

Jessy Grossman:
Was like a mind meld happening. All right, Katie. favorite color?

Katie Stoller:
I’m in new baby girl mode so pink my entire house is like… it looks like it’s through up think like everything’s pink. Right and…

Jessy Grossman:
Molly, favorite color?

Molly Tullis:
All Black, all day. Always.

Jessy Grossman:
I love it. Those are such opposites. I’m into it. I’m a Katy favorite social platform?

Katie Stoller:
Clubhouse by far. I’m so addicted. It’s an addiction right now.

Jessy Grossman:
Yeah. Molly, favorite social platform?

Molly Tullis:
TikTok. You go on to look at like 10 minutes of videos and the next thing you know, it’s like 3am.

Jessy Grossman:
Oh my gosh, kind of the same for each Clubhouse and TikTok ridiculously addictive. Best part of your job, Katie?

Katie Stoller:
Um, I’ll try not to ramble. But just growing up in like the age of influencers back in the OG 2008 era of, you know, cupcakes and cashmere and all the OG bloggers, they I felt like they were my friends. Like, I feel like I grew up with them and now that it’s evolved, like, totally new thing. I get to get paid to like work with these people is just so awesome.

Jessy Grossman:
I love that. Molly, same question. What’s the best part of your job?

Molly Tullis:
Yeah, I think my favorite thing hands down is bringing to life brand stories. I just think that it’s such a fun and creative pursuit but also takes like so much good thinking and strategy. It really brings together kind of right and left brain. And that’s always one of my favorite things to get to recap and to know that we kind of really brought like a brand ethos to life is just so rewarding.

Jessy Grossman:
I love that so much. Um, I would love to dive a little bit into each of your favorite social platforms, right? We’re talking about Clubhouse. We’re talking about TikTok. I don’t know let’s start with 2020’s biggest platform and then we’ll go to 2021’s biggest platform. So let’s start with TikTok and go into Clubhouse. I would love to hear from each of you. Maybe Molly if you want to start because TikTok was your fave. You know what… how are you seeing brands most maybe successfully integrate with TikTokers these days?

Molly Tullis:
Absolutely I think, and this goes for all social platforms. I think the brands that do the best job integrating are the brands who are not afraid to be early adopters. You know, a lot of brands I feel like really kind of like dip their toes in slowly and they want to only get involved once they’re left behind. So I think when it comes to brands integrating on TikTok, I think some of the best people who have done it was definitely Chipotle. They were hands down one of the first brands I saw on TikTok, and they created an audio. They had like a whole Guac Dance, they like made a trend. So I think when it comes to, you know, brands being able to make a statement on these new platforms, they have to not be afraid to kind of speak that platform’s language, you know, like so many brands are kind of like, Well, our ethos is, you know, maybe it’s a little bit more stuffy or we’re a bit more of a formal brand, like I don’t think that we would sponsor a TikTok dance. It’s like, Okay, well, that’s the kind of content that people are putting on TikTok. So your traditional idea of content probably isn’t going to be a good fit. But brands who aren’t afraid to find new ways to spread their message in a way that feels organic to the platform that it’s on, because every platform has its own, you know, kind of language like Instagram, it’s the glamour shots, Twitter, it’s maybe snarky responses. With TikTok, it was all of the dances so Chipotle, they leaned in really early and like made a Guac Dance and like, had a whole thing where they sponsored a couple of sounds. And it was wildly successful. And people were you know, obviously Chipotle is already such has such a fanbase between millennials and Gen Z years but it just really kind of sealed the deal for me that they’re doing a great job. And I think when a brand wants to integrate on a new platform, you have to make sure that you’re speaking the language of that platform, and you’re speaking the language of your audience. Obviously, everyone saw the whole Dunkin Donuts, Charlie situation where she, like, had her own drink there. So just not being afraid to to kind of get in there with your audience and speak their language I think is so key. As long as it’s being done in a really authentic way. You know, that’s how brands are going to shine on that platform.

Jessy Grossman:
So here’s a question that I have for you. So I’ve witnessed very similar things. We’ve talked actually about about like the Chipotle, a TikTok integrations, how they were so early on, with like the flip top challenge and all that stuff. It was so cool to see. So here’s my question. You know, you got a new platform, let’s say it’s like, bring us back to like, you know, the beginning of TikTok time. It’s new, and you’re like, Alright, I want to be an early adopter. But like, the key of what I heard you say is that like, but you have to really lean into what it is like, you have to do it right. You have to fully immerse yourself in it. Talk us through that process of like, you know, the junior people on the team versus the senior people on the team. Does everybody immerse themselves? Like, do you pick a few people who like, Oh, I’m so into this, I’m just gonna dive into take off, like, how does that actually work on a practical level?

Molly Tullis:
Yeah, absolutely and I’ve been really lucky that I’ve worked on really, really cross collaborative teams. So you know, even when there are people who are junior employees, their Assistant Account Executives or Account Coordinators, they’re just starting out all the way up to VP’s. You know, for the most part, luckily, kind of working in an influencer in digital space, you know, those higher ups are still pretty plugged in. But let’s be honest, nothing can be, you know, a Gen Z year at knowing what the Gen Z’s want to do. So I think in a really practical way, for people who are just starting out their careers, you know, I’ve worked on really, really great teams, who are they want those opinions, you know, so like, I’ve been sitting in brainstorms, and I’ve seen VP’s, like, straight up asked to the Account Coordinators, like, Okay, what are you guys seeing? Like, what’s going on? What kind of trends? How should we do this? You know, do you guys think that this makes sense? Is this authentic? I know, I’ve been asked that at times, like just straight up, like, hey, do you think this is gonna work on Instagram? Because my generation’s platform was Instagram. So I’ve been asked about that a bunch of times. So I think when it comes to doing it authentically, and leaning into the platform, it is always going to be cross collaborative, because you’re going to have VP’s and senior employees who understand maybe this strategy or how this is going to need to come to life for a heritage client that they’ve had for a long time but you’re always going to need those new and fresh perspectives. And luckily, you know, as I think, you know, a starter employee, a young employee are in a really cool position to be able to bring some of those ideas to the table. And I’ve seen a lot of really great like intern success stories, people who started out as paid interns, and then got job offers, you know, not too long after because they were they did have their like, kind of thumb on the pulse of everything going on, and they contributed some of those ideas. So I would say, you know, if you’re just starting out in an agency life or a brand life and you know, you’re thinking about adopting all those platforms, like always share your ideas. And for people who are maybe mid or senior level, always make sure that you’re still listening to them because even if you consider yourself to have a pretty good, like pulse on the culture, like my college aged sister is always going to be cooler than me like that’s just kind of, you know, the way it is so, I definitely texted her when TikTok first start It was like, hey, what is TikTok? Why do I need it and was like funneling her ideas into my brainstorms and at an agency. So I just think it’s so important to be cross collaborative. And you know, make sure you’ve got a poll sponsor, across a bunch of different audience groups, and you’ll find a way to make that message really resonate authentically.

Jessy Grossman:
Yeah, and that’s such good. I mean, that is incredible advice. The thing is, with that I, the reason I’m curious is like, you know, if you’ve worked at an agency, especially some of the ones that you’ve worked at, I mean, these people have worked there for decades, I’m sure and maybe naturally have established a little bit of an ego, right? I mean, you you work your way up the ranks, and sometimes that goes along with it. But I agree with you that I think that like the the special sauce. The reason the instances in which you see influencer marketing really working the best, is it’s really that cross section of old and new, not even old, a new but like, experienced versus like a fresh set of eyes. And you know, definitely pushing that ego aside, and just saying, like, no man, this intern or this young person, whatever they are, this person who’s just leaning into that platform, let’s not even put an age to it, like they have absolutely a huge amount of value to bring. And I hope that for anyone listening, that is, you know, maybe on the more junior side, I hope that that’s really inspiring to them to say, you know, I have a voice I have absolutely some value to bring. But the only, like, caveat to that I’d love to hear your thoughts, too, is like, I also don’t want too much ego on that side, either being like, Oh, I’m the only young one here and like, I’m the only one who like knows everything about TikTok or Clubhouse or whatever. And at the same time simultaneously respecting the other side and the amount of wisdom and experience they bring to the table like, do you agree that it’s sort of like it’s a it’s a sweet spot of each side respecting the other and what they bring to the table?

Molly Tullis:
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I mean, you’re never gonna get anywhere, you know, as a junior employee with a huge ego. I’d like to say that you’d never get anywhere with a huge ego. But you know, sometimes that’s not always the case. But I think there’s really a sweet spot of understanding that, you know, you do have something really, really valuable to bring to the table. And just using that to kind of like, almost fight imposter syndrome, because like, I had imposter syndrome for like, the first two years of my career and in agencies, I was like, well, oh, my God, I’m fresh out of school, who am I to be working at these crazy agencies with all these amazing people, but just knowing that let you do bring some value to the table so important, but you also have to balance that out with knowing like, but this is what’s bringing me to the table, I have this value, I have this great POV now that I’m here, what can I learn from all of the people who have been here for a decade, two decades, three decades. So it’s a really important sweet spot of a balance when you’re kind of this like a junior level entry, like agency level employee of knowing, like, Hey, you know, like, there’s definitely stuff I can bring to the table and I can definitely like, say my piece and bring a lot of value. But also, always make sure that you’ve got your learning cap on, because you’re going to learn so much from the people who’ve been there for so much longer and those like mid and senior level employees know so much, because, you know, they’re going to be able to tell you like, Okay, great, that’s awesome. Now we have this incites this platform, but here’s what the brief needs to look like, here’s how we have to tell this client, have you thought about how we’re going to track the analytics on this platform, you know, they’re gonna add so much color to the context that you have, it’s really important to have that balance between not having imposter syndrome, knowing you’re bringing a very distinct value, but also understanding that you are going to learn so much from everybody else there.

Jessy Grossman:
And everybody’s gonna learn from everybody. Like, isn’t that the key? That is what it is like, just, you know, I’ve said so many times, I’m like, if I am learning something new, every day of the rest of my life, I’ll be living the most fulfilled life. I mean, it’s just like a curiosity, a desire to continue learning. I was talking to somebody just the other day, and I was like, you know, like, just like being technologically savvy, has nothing to do with age anymore. Oh, it is just a curiosity. I mean, there’s like a new social platform, a new piece of technology that comes up all the time. And it’s like, sure, like, it can give you a leg up if you were… if you grew up with that, you know, and sort of were immersed in that from the beginning, but like, like we’re talking about Clubhouse, everyone’s learning Clubhouse as we go. It just takes a curiosity and I love that. I’d love to hear from both of you though, Katie, because I feel like you definitely have perspective in this as well. Like, I think it’s so valuable here like actionable, like, I can’t like hacks or like tips and tricks or like what you’ve actually seen on a day to day basis of like, how especially in a work from home situation where everybody is remote and perhaps feeling a little less connected than they had prior. I’d love to hear from you, Katie, like in this collaborative sort of the environment that we’re trying to cultivate here and talking about, like, what are some ways that you’ve seen that it’s most effective considering the hope work from home situation that we’re all in right now?

Katie Stoller:
I loved what you said about like, the secret sauce of PR and an agency is because it’s so true. It’s like, so much of PR is like, a little bit antiquated. Like, when you think about what PR is, like a lot of our really big clients, they pay us to get press, and like, what is press like, like five years ago, you know, they were all clawing over the over getting on the front page of the New York Times like, is that as important as, like, having the sponsored room and clubhouse today? Like, I mean, it’s evolving so fast, like you’re saying, so it’s, you know, there really is this, like, delicate balance between the old school PR, you know, actions that we took for our clients, and then what’s happening like, exactly right now, at this very moment, because things are changing so fast. And I think like, the really smart account directors and like, the more senior people, the agencies get bad, and they, they are open to learning about tech stuff, and they’re open to learning about, you know, new emerging trends, but there definitely are people that you can see that are like, we’re gonna write a press release, we’re gonna put it on the wire, like, we’re gonna, you know, do a grand opening in person, like, they just like, that’s what they’re used to. They’re used to doing kind of, like old formula that work in 1995, or whatever for them. So I think it’s important to like, you know, especially as agent agency person to be, as well rounded as you can. And I think to Molly’s point, it’s a really, like, interesting thing that I think junior people in new grads can talk about in interviews is, you know, what their social footprint looks like and in are the early adopters, and, you know, beyond just being on TikTok for the fun of it, which we all are, but like, what what do you see brands doing on it? What do you see, TikTok will be like, in a year in two years and five years, like, if you can talk about that stuff, I think you’re showing your value to an agency. Because, you know, to your point, there are a lot of people that have been there for a really long time that might be older than might not be kind of as clued in to all the new emerging trends.

Jessy Grossman:
Totally. And so like, if you establish the Dream Team, or right where you have the perfect mix of like, all new like fresh eyes, more experienced eyes. What are you know, I You and I have spoken individually about that you love the topic of just like work life balance during work from home, like, ways to be efficient with your time just like the realities of like what we are living in so I would I’d love to hear like what tools are you using to stay connected with people? What tools are you using to implement in your life about like, balance? Like, how are you being most efficient with your work time? And then how are you setting boundaries to have personal time?

Katie Stoller:
Yeah, so well, so I’ve always worked from home for the last like for over a year since way before COVID. When I moved from the city to the suburbs, I decided to go remote and catch up is very flexible with that which has been awesome. So the transition with all the COVID stuff for me wasn’t that big of a deal because I had like my little office setup and I was I’m very comfortable being kind of like by myself, I think it’s been me I’ve always been very like good on my own and independent when it comes to work stuff. I mean, I do love the face to face and I do miss like in person brainstorms. Like if these big creative agencies like our bread and butter is getting a bunch of people into a room with a whiteboard and just like throwing ideas on the wall that I really mess like we try and do we do Im storm and then obviously tons of zoom meetings all day long but but it is hard and it’s hard especially like on our clients to who are used to coming in once a month and seeing their team in person like they’re spending a ton of money on these global consultancy agencies and to like have us all be like in separate places at home I think it you know, sometimes gets a little chaotic but I mean it for me personally I’m a big list person I everything that I have to do for a day including personal you know, stuff that my husband and I have going on stuff that me and my kids have going on stuff that with me myself has going on, mixed in with all my work stuff, you know, getting it all on paper so that I’m not using my memory and using that brain power all day to remember what’s happening. And then just you know being we’re my team is like around 15 people and we all kind of work on our own stuff like we’re almost I almost like say we’re like little mini entrepreneurs within the agency because we’re all on separate work at different times and we’re our job is to execute influence or work but it’s also to like sell in what’s up work so like, if I’m working on IKEA, which was my big brand that I was working on, you know, the accounting will come to me and they’ll say, like, we want to do we want to launch a new furniture line or whatever. And we’re going to do an influencer program, we have $50,000, we want to work with maybe like, say, five influencers, go, you know, like, go do that. So I’ll do that. But then my job is to be like, you know, what, if we can have 10,000 more dollars, and we can put a little bit of paid money behind it, we can get x amount more eyeballs, you know, hypothetical, obviously. But, you know, so we are we do sort of act like a mini entrepreneurs in the sense that we’re trying to, you know, get the most bang for our client’s buck and try and you know, sell them on things that they might not have thought of, like, maybe they never have even heard of Clubhouse. So we’re trying to, you know, introduce them to that, like, we’re trying to really be like that on the forefront of everything for our clients to get them, you know, the best programs we possibly can. So I sort of feel like I sometimes operate a little bit as an entrepreneur, because even though I’m part of this big organization, it’s really on me to make sure that all my work is done, and that I’m really taking all my client work. But yeah, from a tactical perspective, I’m sort of naturally just really organized like it’s just, it’s how I, how I thrive. I don’t do well with like chaos. I’m not someone that’s like a last minute person, like I do things like as they come in very like realistically. So the work from home thing for me has been kind of like an easy transition, I guess. But I do. I am excited for the day that I can step back into one of those high rises in the city and see people in person because it’s been a very long time.

Jessy Grossman:
For sure. I mean, look like some people are naturally inclined to like their type A’s, right? They’re like, organized like list building. And some of us and some of us have to learn from people like you, who are maybe more naturally inclined to it. Like art, I want to get specific, like, are you literally? Are you a paper and pen or paper and pencil person? Are you making? Are you using like the evernotes of the world? Like, what tools are you using to keep yourself organized.

Katie Stoller:
So for life, I’m a paper person, I actually have my little paper source planner, I get the same one every single year, which is like very OCD of me. But I have a calendar view, I don’t do the one where it’s like by the week, I have to see the whole month. That’s a weird like thing that I have in it is everything and I write it all down. I’m like, I literally carry this planner around with me like around my house, even in my mom will be like, Hey, can I come over Saturday, and I’ll be like, let me check my planner, like I’m that like obsessed with it. I think part of it is just that I have a bad memory. So if I don’t write it down, it like doesn’t happen. So that’s my life. But for work. I’m huge on Google Docs, which is actually kind of a no, no, they, the agency would probably be mad if they heard me saying that. But um, I just think it’s so easy. Google Docs, it’s so easy to just pull up your browser, type in like a word and the doc pops up and you can share it and you can PDF it and you can, you know, manipulate it, I can send a link to my teams. And they can add to it. So I just I’m obsessed I’m big Google Doc fan. But some some of the brands that we work on, like prefer us to use other software, like they’ll have a software. Like an internal software, we use a lot. We’re starting to migrate more so over to Microsoft Teams, which I know a lot of big companies are and so far I like it. I’m not as good at it just because I haven’t been using it as long. But I know that there is a lot of features very similar to Google Docs. But my team actually makes fun of me because of how many Google Docs I have open like some people on my team are just really good at kind of like, they’re working with five people. They have conversations going in email. And they kind of just like know where things are at. I literally put conversation timestamps into my Google App. I’ll be like, I emailed this influencer at 2pm on Monday because I’m nuts and it just helps me.

Jessy Grossman:
No, that’s so good. I’m so into Google look just like the Google Suite. I mean, it feels like old school but it’s so tried and true. It’s a Google like come on. Like it’s just so reliable. It’s just like, there’s a sim a beautiful part of its simplicity even and just how functional it is. So I love that. I would recommend Evernote if you’re especially if you’re into notes, I mean, I totally appreciate the like wanting to write it down but I will tell you I recently get like gave Evernote a try having had experienced it or heard about it I should say I really like Evernote, but I don’t know I’m always into like the actual tools that we’re all using because I feel like that is such an important thing to share. Molly, are there any like, like tools, whether it’s like Slack, Evernote like Google Drive like I don’t know, what are some of your favorites these days? I think it’s so good to share.

Molly Tullis:
Yes. feel very strongly. So I would agree with Katie. I mean, she’s also like the tracker queen. I feel like every time I was on a team with Katie, like we were always on track because of her Google Drive skills. So I’m a big fan of Google Drive. However, I used Evernote in college, which was great, but my new favorite is Notion. N O T I O N. And it’s basically like a database for your life. So you can make all of these different workspaces. You can kind of custom everything to be like Notepads. Or like the Kanban Boards. I don’t know if I’m pronouncing that correctly. You can do like spread style sheets, you can do like pages within pages. Like, it’s the most incredible, like just note taking tool database, it’s and then it has like, it syncs up with Google Drive. So you can like embed Google Drive, you can upload PDF’s, you can do links, I’m obsessed with it, I literally pay for a premium version, and I use it to organize my life. I also use it for grad school. I’m in grad school now. And it is my absolute favorite tool out of anything I’ve ever used for like keeping organized and making trackers and like taking notes. It’s so great, you can make all these different little like workspaces. I’m very obsessed. So that’s my current favorite, I recommend you check it out. I don’t have a promo code or anything or I would give you

Jessy Grossman:
No, it’s so funny that you say that we ran like a fun business recommendation, like fun questionnaire on our Instagram stories. And we asked the other day, like what’s your favorite overall business app or business tool? And someone said, Notion, I’d never heard of it before. So I definitely have to check that out. I still haven’t checked it out. So that’s so good to know. And thank you because I agree that you’re like, I’m so passionate about sharing these things. I just, these are the things that like, you know, we just maybe take for granted, like they’re incorporated into our everyday lives, but like a Notion is a perfect example. You’re it’s something you’re like living by this program, or by this site, or whatever it is, I have to check it out. And like I’ve never heard of it until a day ago. So I think it’s so important to share these tools and like what’s working, what’s not working, so we could all just like be in the now. So I now would love to dive in to Clubhouse. Katie, I I feel like a lot of rooms that I’m in recently. You I see you in the audience. So I you you are obviously as obsessed as I am. I think like TikTok was the app of 2020. And like, let’s be real, it’s like still very much a thing. But Clubhouse is so exciting in 2021. I have my very, I’m very I definitely have opinions about like the brand partnership side of Clubhouse. I feel like any new social platform people like ooh, but like, when are brands gonna be on there? How are brands gonna be on there? How are they going to monetize? Like, this is not like a 10 person team right now. It’s very much still a start up. Katie, I’d love to hear your thoughts because it sounds like you’re talking to your brand partners. And certainly people at your agency about Clubhouse like, what do you love? Where do you see it going? And like, how do you potentially see brands on there? Or do you?

Katie Stoller:
Oh, my God. Clubhouse I have so much to say. Okay, so to your point about the brands, we I actually got a call. So I’m on maternity leave, as we’ve discussed, but I got a call the other day from someone on my team being like, we’re doing a branded room. And I was like, whoa, hold the phone because I didn’t even know that that was like happening yet. And I can’t get obviously give any details about this client. But she was like, Can you walk me through Clubhouse? And I was like, do you have five hours because there’s it’s, there’s a lot to it. So I kind of gave her like a brief overview and I’m not exactly sure what the client is doing. So I’m not exactly sure how it’s working. Because like that, that’s all news to me. But so that so so TBD on that I guess we’ll meet Justin we’ll need to do a follow up podcast once brands start going on there. From a personal perspective, I’m a little like scared of what’s going to happen when this opens up to the public since it is still kind of like in a beta mode right now. And I love it. I feel like I see the same people in rooms I’m making amazing relationships and connections and I’m a little bit worried for like the general public to kind of jump on board because it is so like, industry focused right now. And I really like that I feel like I found my people they’re like my friends that are like teachers and you know, not kind of in the marketing industry or like, oh, what’s Clubhouse? want to you know, or Yeah, I want to get on it. Like do you have an invite and I’m kind of like Taiwan you’re like, I just I’m not sure yet like what its gonna look like. You know, people that aren’t in specific industries are on their dining rooms. I have seen a couple I’ve tried to do in a couple rooms about like moms and you know stuff that isn’t related to like my work life and they’ve been fine but I feel like the most value that I’ve gotten out of it so far has been in like blue in specific rooms or the marketing rooms, or the PR rooms. So that’s kind of just like my like, opinion about like where it’s at. In terms of the app itself. I think, you know, Molly instantly said that TikTok, she is an influencer herself. She gets brand deals. She, you know, started back in the day with a blog who she it makes sense that she loves TikTok. I love you know, being a lurker on TikTok. But the chances of me recording myself like singing and dancing on film is like basically a zero that’s just not my personality. I’m much more like a shy person. So Clubhouse is like perfect for me, I don’t have to show my face. I building relationships with people that like make me feel comfortable in the rooms to come up. And it’s just it lends itself so well to more like introverted people that like a passive type of app where you’re not, you know, pushing content into people’s faces. And I just also being on maternity leave and not having like day to day tasks for work, I’m still busy doing you know a ton of things. But I have the time to kind of sit back when I’m hanging out with a baby and just kind of turn on a room and be an observer from afar. And, you know, sometimes I’m not gaining any information. Sometimes they go into like influencer rooms. And I’m like, I know, all this stuff, or I’m like, is very much like embedded in my brain already. But every once in a while, like someone has this nugget of information that I’m like, that is so brilliant, like that is so inspiring. I was in a room this morning, and it was just women giving like morning affirmations. And I was like, this is kind of cheesy, like, I’m just gonna pop in and see kind of like what they’re talking about. And like every single woman that spoke I almost like started crying. It was like, everyone just had these like amazing, inspiring things to say about, you know, it was just Valentine’s Day this weekend, and people were talking about like, heartbreak and divorce and getting married. And just like, I was just so inspired just sitting in my bedroom for like, covered. It’s been like, it’s just I’m so obsessed with it. I think it is just such a brilliant idea for a certain type of person. I do think that, you know, general public, public people that aren’t necessarily identifying as a certain type of like business industry might have a harder time kind of like getting as obsessed as I am. And I’m curious to kind of see where that goes. I don’t know, Jessy, I’m curious of your opinions, because just delivered.

Jessy Grossman:
Yeah, we will. First of all, we all have to do more clubhouse rooms together. Because I love finding people that are equally obsessed. I was just talking in a clubhouse room the other day about I was like, do you guys find that it seems to feel like a really comfortable app, if you self identify as a little bit more introverted, and everyone’s like, oh, my god, yes. I also like really have always gravitated towards listening to podcasts. And I find myself like, I’m listening to slightly less podcasts now. And I’m listening to more clubhouses. I mean, it’s essentially an interactive podcast, right? There’s more to it, of course, but like, if you could just like chalk it up in a few words, that’s how I would describe it, I’m obsessed as well, I do, the only thing I will add is like, because I find myself absolutely in a lot of this industry rooms, as well. And I’m, I’m excited, I hope that they add a way to link your LinkedIn. Speaking of like industry and like business specific type uses. Because right now, they only have Twitter and Instagram. And I would love for you to be able to link your LinkedIn as well, we were talking about that in a room the other day. But I do see some rooms where you could totally use it for personal purposes, especially that we’re also isolated right now. It’s interesting, I initially gravitated much more to those larger rooms. And then recently just started, like, what are these more intimate small rooms about, and I made such better connections and like, they were much more impactful. And, like they’re, I don’t know, there’s there’s also an element of, you know, just shared interests and, and, and it’s all algorithmic, right, like, you know, you are obviously gravitating towards the business rooms, and I am too so my hallway or the people that I follow tend to be a lot of those people, but, like, branch out a little bit and like, go into a mom’s room or you know, go and find people who talk about motherhood or whatever your hobbies are, whatever My hobbies are, and you’ll you’ll actually see some of those rooms are pretty fun, too. Oh, so I think there is a place for everybody. I also just think it’s so good. Cool, I love a good startup. And like, I it’s literally they have 10 people. And every Sunday they if you go to the town halls, they talk about, like, you know, q&a from the community of like what features they want to add and the two founders just sit there on clubhouse for a couple hours and talk about like their roadmap and where they want it to be. And I was in a room the other day with Bethenny Frankel, who I’m obsessed with. She’s on there. It’s also cool seeing like, who’s joining, and one of the co founders was in the room. And she was just like, oh, Paul, you’re in here co founder, like, can we bring up to the stage and then she started interviewing him, it was like, it just you feel like you have so much immediate access to really incredible people, like, my background tends to like I’ve always worked with talent. So like, being in a room, ironically, not being in a room with Bethenny Frankel. Even though I’m obsessed with her, it didn’t feel like oh, my God, Betsy pickles here, but bringing up the co founder of this cool app, I was like, Oh, that is so cool. Like, what are your thoughts about like, the people you’ve been meeting? And again, like, how do you think that brands coming into the equation? What will they do to what’s already been created? Well, that’d be a positive thing, a negative thing? Like, what are your thoughts on that, too?

Katie Stoller:
I know, see, that’s like, that’s what I’m like having trouble with because I just, I feel like the close knit community, even though there’s like, probably millions of people on it, you sort of like, find your people, like you were saying, based on the rules you follow, and based on, you know, different things, different interests that you have, and stuff you sort of like, migrate to like your people. So when it opens up to a broader population, I’m just like, I’m not sure how it’s going to work. And like, they keep saying they’re going to extend the limits of the room, like, I know, Elon Musk was on a couple weeks ago, when I actually didn’t make it to the room, I was too late, and the room was full. But those things are gonna, like extend the limits, but I’m like, do we want like 7000 8000 10,000? You know, a million people in a room? Like, is that gonna kind of defeat the purpose of having a conversation, like how to have a conversation with a million people just doesn’t seem to work? So I don’t know. And then the branded side of it. So this is kind of what I was talking with my team about is, we, you know, I think we just have to be really careful, because right now, people are using it as a genuine way to connect with people. If I’m gonna, I’m looking at brands. Hey, apple, I just looked at my Mac, if Apple comes on, and is doing an apple sponsored room about like, technology in 2021. Like, yeah, that topic is, you know, still potentially going to be beneficial to people in the room, but like, knowing that a brand is behind it, does it sort of like muddy the waters? Do they have an ulterior motive? Are they promoting a new product? Like, that’s what I’ve confused about right now is, how are we going to, as brands not be so self promotional, people already call you out, like, if you get into a room and you’re like, oh, by the way, follow my website, like people don’t like that, like, it’s, it’s a very, you have to be very careful with how you promote yourself. Jesse, I think you probably have experienced this, because you’ve been in a bunch of rooms with me, but like, you know, there’s definitely people that are on there that are going to gain followers and to get people to, you know, click over to Instagram and like them on Instagram. And I think that’s a point if you’re doing it out of an information sharing mentality, and you’re there to, you know, increase your tribe type of thing. But if you’re going there simply to get followers, like, it’s very obvious. So I think brands are going to be very, very careful on Tick tock, it’s like, it’s okay. Because, you know, you’re creating, you’re creating a visual piece of content that, you know, is fun and can be shared. And you’re kind of like giving something to your audience, whereas clubhouse none of it’s recorded. So it goes away. So like, what actually are what kind of like, benefit Are you giving? And if you’re hosting a sponsored room, and you know, there’s money involved? I just I feel like it’s we’re gonna have to be very careful with how we roll out this monetization on the on the app. And I haven’t been in one of the founders, town halls yet actually tried to get into one. I think it was yesterday and it was old. But I’m curious, like, what their thoughts are. I mean, I’ve heard a little bit of chatter about like, that the conversations are happening, but I’m curious, like, you know, how it will work from a sponsorship advertisement perspective.

Jessy Grossman:
So here’s so here’s an interesting thought, and a way that I think that it could work preliminarily as the state that it’s in and like we all have to remind ourselves that like, clubhouses, literally still in beta, that is why it’s invite only they had no intentions of it being exclusive, which is how Of course it feels a little bit because you have to get an invite to join. But you but like it’s literally in beta, so They need to make sure that they’re like their servers have been failing recently, and they’ve been having issues because, like, they’re still in a spot, they’re still a startup, they’re still developing the apps, they need to keep it small. But here’s here’s the thought, as in its current state, I actually think that it would be most interesting to hear from the people at the company. Or of course, like influencers, let’s say, right, like, who like use it, but a sponsored room, like a sponsor room could be really interesting. If you hear like, let’s say, you talk about Apple, like, like, let’s hear from, you know, the current CEO of Apple, like, let’s hear from like, somebody who just created a really cool program there, or, you know, like, from a member of that team, so it does feel a little bit more personal. Or the, the, it’s like, you know, like a, it can feel a voyeuristic and people like that to like, what is a meeting about, you know, planning the next, you know, release of the iOS, you know, look like, like, I don’t know, I’m just making this up. But like, that could be interesting, or what clubhouse is doing, right? where it’s like, Let’s invite people up. And like, you know, I’m Apple hosting a room, like, what feature would you like? Like, what do you like? What would you like? What’s it just a QA or an Ask me anything or something like that, but like, hearing from people in the company, and, you know, we’re talking about Apple, so like, the apple geniuses and how, you know, or here’s our, here’s another one, like a Soul Cycle. Like, that’s a great example of a company that really empowers individuals to become their own sort of thought leaders or their own, like little mini celebrity is, you know, entrepreneurs within the company. Like, I think it would be interesting to sort of like, highlight your employees, and like, have them speak very personally about where their expertise comes from, and just, like, personalize it a little bit more, because I think that like, that’s sort of what I’m hearing from you. And I agree, which is, the danger is having it feel to sponsored Of course, and you It’s so hard to fake, like enthusiasm in anything, when all you have is your voice, right? Like on Instagram, like whatever, you could take a photo and like, look like you like the product and like you’re hiding behind the keyboard and the caption. So like, you’ll be able to make it sound like you like it, or your enthusiastic about it. But if you just have your voice, like it’s got to be really genuine. So I feel like that you either got to find people who are just that enthusiastic about it, because you just can’t fake it. Or you just like turned it into more of like a, like an access thing. Like I was saying, like q&a for the people there or like, I don’t know, I don’t know, I’m just like brainstorming things. Molly, what are your thoughts?

Molly Tullis:
Yeah, I will, I think that there’s probably I would be surprised if I mean, we’re definitely going to see brand sponsored talks in the future like whether that tanks, the club’s household culture, who’s to say, but I think there’s no way those talks aren’t coming. But I also could see this going in a real podcast direction, where people just are like the radio where people just click, like pay to have audio ads. And at the start of a talk, if you’re a really popular creator, you can run an ad, and it’s 30 seconds, it’s an audio ad, just like on a podcast or on the radio. And then you jump into your talk. And then the talk is completely authentic. And you know, is everything that we’ve come to love about clubhouse, but maybe there’s an ad break, and there’s 30 seconds of audio from our sponsors or whatever. And then if people start seeing revenue from that, so I also don’t think that like just straight up like radio advertisements aren’t out of the question for clubhouse because it’s an audio format. And a lot of people would still get you know, a really authentic talk out of that. So I think that’s another format that ads are probably going to come in and you know, people have really big clubhouse followings, you know, they would probably be interested in monetizing that way too. And then they don’t necessarily have to have a sponsored talk, but they could, you know, run pre roll or like have a 32nd break in the middle of the talk or something, and just run an ad that is like somewhat relevant based on industry. So I’d be shocked if that doesn’t roll out at some point because I think that that might even come before like brand sponsored talks. But who’s to say I know they are in such such a beta mode right now they’re just worried on like, making sure their servers can handle people. But I think that that’s another way that people are definitely gonna start monetizing, is we’re gonna see the introduction of ads at some point because, you know, it didn’t take tik tok too long it didn’t take Instagram too long. Like, you know, they’ve got to monetize somehow so it’ll happen eventually. But just what that looks like I think will be obviously really interesting for everyone to to kind of keep an eye on.

Jessy Grossman:
That makes total sense. I mean, podcasts do the same thing. Like if you upload your podcast through a certain network or what have you. You could have you know, automatically have ads just dropped in it makes so much sense. I you know, but then that’s a whole conversation of like, what’s the most Effective selling tool? Is it hearing from a third party who’s just popping in and this new voice in the in this conversation of like, buy this product, okay back to your regularly scheduled program? Or is it hearing from the person itself? I hear podcasts ads all the time where I’m like, this person is literally reading a script and I don’t buy it. It’s so bad. Again, I think that’s gonna really be the key with clubhouse is like, when it’s not even if when brands start to like infiltrate the app a bit more. It’s finding those people who can really, really authentically sell something because again, like, when you just have your voice, it’s, you can’t fake it. You just can’t fake it. Like, I cannot believe that, like, the amount of time has passed already. I could go on and chat with you ladies forever. I genuinely we have to have another clubhouse. talk together. So we can we can continue this conversation. The first one was fantastic. And I love hearing from both of you. We asked this last question of everybody who comes on the show. And I don’t know why don’t we start with Molly on this one. So I want to hear from both of you. Of course. What do you wish someone had told your younger self that would have given you a professional or personal advantage today?

Molly Tullis:
Yeah, absolutely. I get I’m going back to what we were saying at a different part in this conversation. I really wish that someone would have told me that even as an entry level employee, like I did have something to bring to the table. Because like I said, I was so scared. At my first agency job at Ogilvy like I was always afraid to like, give an idea even in a brainstorm I like thought that all of my ideas would have to be like perfect if I was going to be seen as like a smart, good employee like I was. So I had such a bad case of imposter syndrome going into like such an established agency with so many other great employees. But, you know, before the end of my time there, like people were asking me questions about influencer marketing, and I kind of ended up being like, by circumstance, the expert on that topic, or at least the most expert person, like on my team about that topic. So I think it just would have made me feel maybe not given me more of a professional edge per se, but I think they just would have made me feel more comfortable and more confident and therefore, like, more ready to bring forward ideas and strategize. If someone had told me like, when I was younger, hey, you know, it, not everything has to be perfect. Like, nobody is 100% confident in everything they’re saying all the time. Like, just don’t be afraid to spit ball, you have value, they hired you for a reason. Like, you know, your your voice matters. And I think we see that a lot in agencies like even though especially PR agencies are dominated by women, I would still feel that like the few men that there were were like getting so much farther in the agency just because like they never second guessed themselves, they just always like started talking and people listened. Not to take it down down that whole road. But I would just really encourage younger, like entry level employees and people who are just getting started in their careers. If I’d known this when I was younger, just like hey, go in there, be confident, like don’t be cocky and know that you’re there to learn. But like, also understand that there’s no need for imposter syndrome, you have a very valuable voice and a very important POV to listen to your team would have made a world of difference in the first few years of my career, that’s for sure.

Jessy Grossman:
Hundred percent and like, I don’t know, we talk about the law of attraction a bit on this podcast and like, how attract how attractive confidence is. And like, that is something you know, we are women’s specific focused, you know, group here. So, you know, talk about the amount of attraction, you know, let’s talk about professionally, of course, only right now and just like that people are are going to listen to you more people are going to be intrigued by what you have to say people are going to pay more attention. If you bring a level of confidence. Look like let’s be real. That’s, you know, maybe that’s something that you wish someone had told you yourself. And it’s easier said than done. Right? Of course, like, we’ve all been young, and like unconfident. And, you know, some of us are still that way. It’s not even an age thing. But like, I think it’s hand in hand. It’s confidence and like giving yourself permission. I love that Molly. That’s so so beneficial to hear. Katie, what about you? What do you wish someone had told you your younger self that would have given you a personal or a professional advantage today?

Katie Stoller:
Love what Molly said. I think confidence for me has always been kind of like something that I like teeter back and forth with like, some days I feel like I’m the smartest person alive. And some days I feel like I know nothing. So it’s just days when you can really amp yourself up are the days that you’re gonna like, do better work and get recognized. I just feel like being confident is so crucial. But I would say in terms of the advice, Austin, I’d say the one piece of advice that I wish I didn’t get this is a no flipping this question on its head came from my father who I love dearly. And he’s a great person and he’s great. But he was born in the 50s. And he always told me when you graduate college, you know, I graduated from University of Illinois, which is a great school, he said, You have this college degree under your belt, you need to go out into the work world, you need to not work for free, you need to get that company for the rest of your life and get a nice 401k. And that kind of like was embedded in my brain since like eighth grade. So which is obviously everyone’s probably like laughing that’s listen to this, because it’s so not relevant for like the current world that we’re in. But I sort of have it in the back of my head in the beginning of my career, so I was I would take these free internships, but I would, I would take them with like an attitude like I’m better than this, or I don’t, I shouldn’t be doing this, this is not benefiting me. And I wish I didn’t have that attitude, because I don’t think I was absorbing as much as I could have been. And I ended up doing a ton of free, because I kind of had no choice. But I think it was just like the intentionality that I went into these jobs with came from more of this, like old school mentality that like, you know, he bought a car when he was 16, from working at the corner store, whatever, but like the world, it was so different when I was starting, and obviously, it’s even more different now. So basically, that’s all to say is that, you know, take every opportunity, it’s okay to work for free, it’s okay to be the bottom of the totem pole. It’s all about the experience. And, and you might feel like, you know, you’re spinning your wheels, or you might feel like Oh, why am I doing this fourth internship. But I promise that all of those experiences will ladder up to creating this career that you eventually will love and you know, that you’ve crafted based on all these places that you’ve worked. But, yeah, I mean, I just think that it’s so important to be a sponge absorb as much as you can. And throughout all of it be as competent as you can, like, Jesse, you were saying, you know, sometimes it’s hard to, like, bring that confidence out. And it’s okay to feel like crap, like, it’s okay to like, feel like you’re not the most buttoned up person. I always feel like was i scatterbrain? Was I blabbering was I doing this, like, with a face, I’m stupid in front of a client and nine times out of 10, I’ll get an email after a meeting or after, you know, being in a clubhouse room or whatever, wherever I’m speaking or, or presenting and people will be like, you gave me such good advice, or you said this thing that resonated so hard with me. And you know, and I’ll, I’ll be like, really? Like, what did I even say? Like, you know, we don’t know our worth, internally until you know, someone else maybe comes out and reminds us of how important things are.

Jessy Grossman:
Definitely unlike, you know, if only we stopped like listening to ourselves and judging ourselves and just spoke from the heart, like just spoke from experience, like unfiltered. I feel like that is like that’s the environment that I hope Wim cultivates, because I just I’ve, I’ve found personally and I’ve witnessed with other women, that when they are just in an environment where they feel that it’s completely like, okay to be unfiltered, you know, completely themselves and just not judge it. That like the most incredible words of wisdom come out. It’s just like, it’s real. It’s honest, it’s you and like, it is so impactful to people listening. So I love, like, the combination of what you both said are just going to make like, it’s it’s huge. It’s incredible advice and heartache sometimes, but like, whatever, like, say it, repeat it to yourself, like, practice it, and it’ll get easier every single time. Ladies I have. So enjoyed this conversation. I’m so happy that you both joined. I assume that women men, whoever listening to this podcast, definitely going to want to get in touch with you. To hear more. Definitely Follow us on clubhouse at whim because we’re going to be doing more conversations with these women for sure. Shameless plug. But if they want to reach out to you directly, what’s the best way to get in touch Molly, what’s the best way for you?

Molly Tullis:
Absolutely. Um, so I’m Molly Tullis, on all platforms, which makes it easy. So shout out to being able to snag your name on most social platforms. Easiest way to get ahold of me is through LinkedIn. I do a lot like I said, I guess lecture. So I’m always connecting with students and I’m very, very digital and about responding on LinkedIn so you can find me on LinkedIn just that Molly Tullis and that’s probably the quickest way to get to get a quick response from me.

Jessy Grossman:
Amazing LinkedIn I love it and Katie, what about you?

Katie Stoller:
And then LinkedIn to on Katie Stoller and then Instagram Katie Stoller underscore Katie solar was taken, and then clubhouses just Katie Stoller,

Jessy Grossman:
I love it. I will link all of that below. Ladies and It’s been such a pleasure as always, and I just so appreciate you sharing all of this with our audience. So thank you so much for Judo for joining us today.

Katie Stoller:
Thank you so much, Jessy.

Molly Tullis:
Yeah, thank you. This was fantastic. It’s always always fun to have a good chat with with your girlfriends.

Katie Stoller:
Yeah.

Jessy Grossman:
Let’s do it again. Awesome.

Molly Tullis:
Sounds good.

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