Meet The Owners of Influencer.com and @influencer

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 Hi, everybody! Today is Memorial Day weekend and I’m a last minute planner. So I’m going to visit some family for like a day or two but then we’re thinking of taking off and spending a couple days somewhere. As always check us out on Clubhouse for all of our Clubhouse events. Check us out on Instagram, our Facebook community, our website, everything. We want to hear from you. I love hearing from you! And if you are interested in joining our collective, which is our membership, you can always use code podcast 2021 for a discount.

Jessy Grossman:
I am stoked to chat with not just one guest but two today from the company Influencer obviously such a great name to be able to get that. But I’m excited to chat with you ladies today. So Hester and Hayley, welcome.

Hester Bates:
Thank you. Thanks very much for having us.

Jessy Grossman:
Oh my gosh, of course, it’s gonna be just like a nice chitchat amongst girlfriends today. You know, we’ve got two experts here in the influencer space. And we heard a little bit about you both in the intro to the show. But I’m just excited for our listeners to sort of get to know you a little bit, get to know your work a little bit. And also sort of get some of your predictions for the rest of the year. So first and foremost, I would love to hear from let’s start with Hester. What sort of trends are you seeing these days in terms of the creative economy?

Hester Bates:
Um, I mean, I think the main trend that we’ve been focusing on recently has been well, actually probably the biggest trend that we’re currently looking at is Clubhouse. There’s obviously been kind of like a huge, huge peak in that at the end of last year and while we are seeing that kind of decline a little bit, I feel like it probably couldn’t have been going like carried on going the way it was going. The surge in popularity and that was incredible and it created huge opportunities for creators. Actually, that’s true of all of the kind of different audio platforms and formats that we’re seeing now. And the ways that the creators can kind of monetize those different options. I think those guys will be like incredibly well utilized by creators and feature.

Jessy Grossman:
So love that trends because I’m personally obsessed with Clubhouse. Are you? Are you personally on there and enjoying the platform?

Hester Bates:
I’m personally on there and enjoying being a spectator, silent spectator on the platform. I definitely need to give it a go in terms of kind of actually using it as it’s meant for us. But no, it does. It’s like an amazing opportunity to just kind of like, Listen into, like, you know, incredibly intelligent people having really interesting conversations. And as you said, it’s kind of way nicer to have to listen into those, like more relaxed and open conversations, as opposed to some of the more scripted things that you might find on kind of podcasts and things currently.

Jessy Grossman:
I mean, that’s like every conference I’ve ever been to, are those like, right, like, you can close your eyes and predict exactly what that person’s going to say. And so I, I agree with you Like, I think that’s one of the many reasons why Clubhouse is so refreshing because it is off the cuff. It’s like, you don’t have time to scripted. It’s just an organic conversation amongst peers. So I be curious to hear from you, ladies. So are you strategically incorporating Clubhouse into, you know, your the the work you’re doing with influencers and brands at all?

Hester Bates:
It’s something that we’re discussing at the moment. It’s definitely, I mean, I think everyone is really just looking for ways that they can, like utilize it to the best of their abilities. We’re definitely learning like more at the moment, like trying to gain an understanding of it, before selling it in, but it’s definitely something that’s of great interest to us.

Hayley Shortman:
Just add from a client perspective, I think clients are always scared to be the first ones to try out new, new platforms, and especially when you don’t know too much about them, especially in terms of like reporting and things like that. That’s always a big one for us when we do our campaigns is what we get back from them. So yeah, I think once one person goes, I’m sure we’ll see the rest, but it just takes one person to take, take that gamble on a new platform. And then I think mostly everyone else take it up.

Jessy Grossman:
For sure. So it sounds like you haven’t first hand experience any brand partnerships very yet. So I’m curious, would you advise for it now or against it and to wait?

Hayley Shortman:
Um, I think it really depends on the briefs that you get from from your clients. And that’s the same across all platforms is understanding what their objectives are? And then what platform fits. So I guess we’re Clubhouse it’s quite an informative platform. So if it was to fit that brief, and I’m sure we would, would suggest it. But yeah, I think you kind of have to avoid suggesting platforms just for the sake of it. And just because people want to be on there, it has to be for the right reason and still serve a purpose. So yeah, I think if it fit the brief, definitely. But I think it all comes down to like the strategy in terms of what platforms to pick as well.

Jessy Grossman:
For sure. And Hayley, what about you? What trends are you seeing these days in terms of the influencer and creator economy?

Hayley Shortman:
I think the biggest one for us on our campaigns is more around the style of content that people are producing. And I think that has a lot to do with TikTok taking off so much during the lockdown. And just the way that people were consuming content in the lockdown as well. So I think the shift has become a lot more about entertaining content, rather than where we kind of go more to Instagram for like inspirational content, I think, especially with the introduction of reels. A lot of the content now is a lot more… it’s not as polished, it’s much more like authentic and everything like that. So it’s it’s much more about entertaining people and uplifting people. And I think that’s starting to transition across all the platforms. And then you see things like Instagram, having they’re having rules to do that as well. So I think platforms also understanding what people want to see on social media. So yeah, that’s been a big one for us. And I think clients are also understanding that content is is not as polished anymore and they’re kind of adapting to that which is actually really nice to see because it gives creators a lot more control a lot more freedom as to what they want to post and how they approach a brief as well.

Jessy Grossman:
So I read just this morning that TikTok is officially the number two social media platform in terms of branded partnerships. No surprise there. I still feel like it’s it’s not it’s not streamlined enough in terms of rates in terms of, you know, predictability, certainly not predictability. So, you know, if you were to advise a brand on how best to work with TikTokers. What would you say Hester?

Hester Bates:
I think I mean, in terms of like advising brands, on any platforms, and as part of any campaigns, I feel like the best thing for them to do is often actually to reach out to the creators like themselves. You know, if you reach out if you work with creators, providing them with very clear, like business goals, and a very clear brief, and you actually discuss with the creators, like the kinds of content that they would produce, in order to achieve those business goals, you’ll get the kind of best results out of them.

Jessy Grossman:
Definitely. And what would you say Hayley, are you are you personally into TikTok? Like, are you on there pretty often? Or are you do you prefer a different platform just for your personal consumption?

Hayley Shortman:
My personal preference is always Instagram. I feel like I’m just over the age bracket of TikTok. But I did I did have it in lockdown. And I, I just found it so addictive. Like they do an amazing job of keeping you on that platform. Like they know what they’re doing with it. But yeah, I think for me, the preference is definitely Instagram. I’m still of that. I like to look at more polished content, either that goes against everything I just said in my previous comment, but yeah, I think that’s why I use Instagram more I like to like save content, especially at home and interior stuff. So yeah, that and Pinterest. And they’re probably the two that I use the most.

Jessy Grossman:
I want to get to know Hester and Hayley a little bit more personally. So we have some fun, like rapid fire get to know you questions. Can I ask you, maybe some of those are you ready to have? Stephanie? Perfect. Sounds good. So I’m gonna ask you guys that this works best, when you don’t think too much about your answer. And it’s just what comes mine first. So I’m gonna start with Hayley. So Hayley, what is your biggest motivation?

Hayley Shortman:
I’m trying not to think about that too much. It’s just from what you said. And I would say, a family. I always love going to my family when I’ve, when I feel like I’ve achieved something and it’s just nice to kind of go back to them. And, and I think, yeah, just seeing, getting your family to see how well you’re doing is always always a nice thing to share.

Jessy Grossman:
And along those lines, it’s family, kids, etc. Hester, what did you want to be when you’re growing up?

Hester Bates:
Oh, God. Um, I actually. Well, I was thinking when you ask a question just now I was thinking I’m very motivated by like, family and everything as well. But I would lose I have said money. And when I was little, I really wanted to be I watched that program that said that therapists were really well paid. So I wanted to get therapist age four. And then I then it’s gonna be hard to do biology to do that. And so that one went out the window. So yeah, I think a therapist, a four year old therapist.

Jessy Grossman:
Wait, I love that so much. What an insightful kitty word. Oh my goodness. That’s pretty ambitious of you. That’s so cool. I’m definitely, definitely getting to know you. I love this. Um, Hayley. What is the best age to be?

Hayley Shortman:
Oh, that’s a hard one. I always like, say the age that I am now, which is 29 and two weeks, but yeah, I’ve enjoyed like, late 20s because I don’t know. I feel like you’re still in that time when you’re dressed quite carefree and enjoying yourself. But equally, you’ve learnt quite a lot. So it’s a nice, nice kind of in between. But you can still get away with things but you’re a bit wiser.

Jessy Grossman:
You can get away with it. Enjoy the crap out of your 20s but get excited for your 30s Yeah. Hester, what is your favorite social media app? You mentioned clubhouse, but is that actually your favorite app? And if not, what is it?

Hester Bates:
It’s not I would it’s a definite toss out between Instagram and TikTok. I am definitely susceptible to falling into a big TikTok hole and I would say this year especially I know we touched on it earlier but the kind of light relief that TikTok provides I think has really actually like really helped me I would also say TikTok is such a good platform in terms of like education. And there’s a lot of means at the moment like I’ve learned more BHO things I’ve like learned on the internet as opposed to having learned at school and I think TikTok is incredible for that. I think my favorite example of that is the Hong Kong demonstrators teaching the protesters in Russia, you know, their rights and how to protect safety, you know, using TikTok, and I think people forget, you know, in amongst all of that other very good but quite silly surfer content on that app that there is actually also this incredible, this incredible education tool. But I do enjoy a good Instagram scroll as well.

Jessy Grossman:
Oh, my gosh. There’s so much on TikTok.

Hester Bates:
That is such a blessing and a curse.

Jessy Grossman:
Yeah, well, yes. That said it’s, it’s I’m so glad that you mentioned that though, because that is such a misconception that TikTok is like, just for young people, and it’s all kids dancing. And to your point, oh my gosh, there’s so much more than just that there’s an educational piece. There’s like, I mean, the list goes on and on.

Hester Bates:
Learn how to like cut an onion, or you can learn a dance. I mean, it. Yeah, I think the opportunities are endless, especially it’s free and when you should be asleep.

Jessy Grossman:
That’s definitely a fear, like innately curious of a person. Like it sounds like you are. TikTok we’ll see that curiosity. And so, so much. There’s so much to learn on there. And then Hayley, besides social media apps, what’s your favorite non social media app that you’re using these days?

Hayley Shortman:
Um, I got to have to look at my phone. I’m like, do I even use my phone, barely, social media. Um, I use a lot of shopping apps, which is, I should really remove them from my phone. I checked them like their social media app. It’s quite deadly but I think being at home and being in lockdown is just yeah, online shopping is, is the next addiction for me. So yeah, h&m gets checked, quite often, especially men home. So yeah, that’s probably next on my list.

Jessy Grossman:
Do they do have good home stuff? they do? They really do. It’s really nice. I mean, it’s obviously like, affordable, but also like, looks more expensive than it is. So I feel like you’re getting a lot of bang for your buck, which is awesome. Hester, are you into movies, podcasts, TV shows, or something else when you are not on social media, but looking for some entertainment?

Hester Bates:
I think it completely depends what kind of mood I’m in. I’m trying at the moment to actually listen to the radio more. So I’m trying to I guess, I feel like when you turn on the radio, you kind of never know what you’re going to get. And I’m very bad at, you know, I’ll sit down and turn on the TV and I’ll always go back to the same things. So yeah, I’ve been really enjoying the good old, old fashioned radio recently. But I do also love a good podcast. I’m not much of a moody person. My attention span probably isn’t quite there. So yeah, I think as you also vary the audio platforms, in terms of podcasts and radio.

Jessy Grossman:
Awesome. And Hayley, I’ll ask the same question of you. And then whatever your answer is, I’d love to hear what your favorite one is. So if it’s podcasts, for example, your favorite podcast movies? What’s your favorite movie? What are you consuming these days?

Hayley Shortman:
Um, I’m the same as Hester, I’m terrible at like making a choice on what to watch. So I do end up, I end up watching a lot of like reality TV, which is really embarrassing, but if I’m, if I’m gonna pick it, I probably spend a lot of time on Netflix. I think just being at home more, you can sacrifice more of your time on a full series. So yeah, bridgeton was my one for January. And I got through that pretty quickly.

Hester Bates:
So yeah, I’d probably say that what I do next is there’s nothing wrong with a good bit of reality TV.

Jessy Grossman:
I agree. I agree. Like we just posted a really interesting, but also heartbreaking article in our Facebook group, just like yesterday, and it’s gotten so many comments and the gist of it without getting, you know, you can read it yourself is basically just that burnout is so real in this industry, and you know, the that it’s so normalized, and in fact, like, you know, people sort of, it’s a badge of honor that you like run yourself into the ground. And so, you know, that’s a whole other topic but no shame in vegging out and turning off your brain and enjoying some reality TV or a fun podcast or whatever it is. So no shame in that at all. And then my last question for Hester. If money were no object, what would you do for a living?

Hester Bates:
But the money? Um, I think I would be, I would love to be a teacher. Or I would actually love to go and be a war correspondent. Lately nice.

Jessy Grossman:
I love that. We’re both like, Oh, wow. I love that. And Hayley, what about you? I’m asking that same question. If money were no object, what would you do for a living?

Hayley Shortman:
I would do what four year old has to do, I’d love to be some kind of like, a therapist or something like that. I just find mindset and psychology just so, so fascinating. And I’m a people person. So I love, love talking to people about that kind of thing. So yeah, I think that would be mine.

Jessy Grossman:
That’s so interesting. Oh, my gosh, you girls like, I’m such a proponent for therapy. And I love that, like, I’ve no, I haven’t heard that answer to my question ever on this podcast. And both of you are saying that you have an interest in that, but I get it, I understand it, right. It’s just like, human psychology is so fascinating. And, you know, that’s so much of what we even incorporate into what we do for a living, right? You’re trying to, you know, figure out how to how to please your client, like, the you know, the story that an influencer tells and you know, going through their life, and it’s very, like, I definitely see synergies there but that’s so interesting. Maybe that’s why you guys work so well together. There’s a similar, there’s a, there’s definitely a through line there for the both of you. And that’s really cool to see. And so in terms of brand partnerships, like what sorts of brands are you guys working with on a regular basis? Like, are there any sort of categories that you tend to see the most? How talk to me about the the brand side of the work that you do?

Hayley Shortman:
It’s pretty varied, actually, obviously, we’ve seen travel drop off in the last year. And it kind of comes back again, every kind of government announcement, it makes its way back, and then kind of pushes back again. So hopefully, that will pick up in the summer. But for us, I think we work with a lot of alcohol brands, which is really good fun. Obviously, when you’re working with brands like that, you have to be quite strategic about how you put the messaging across. So it does tend to go down quite a creative route, which is always quite fun to work on. But yeah, it’s really buried. I think that’s one of the the most exciting things about working here is that the verticals that we cover are so broad. And not just working with brands, but also working with agencies and the clients that they bring us. And it definitely gives us quite a nice variety in who we work with, both with creators and clients as well.

Jessy Grossman:
And I love to hear that. I mean, there are definitely some nuances I can imagine about working with like an alcohol brand, for example. And like age regulations, and just, you know, very specific rules. I’m curious to hear like in terms of those brand partnerships, you know, how do you guys set yourself apart? There are certainly other companies who, you know, working with alcoholic brands, and, you know, you said you have you cast a pretty wide net, like, how would you articulate what sets you guys apart, besides incredible name that you have, and the credible people that you have? What else sets you guys apart and makes you guys pretty special?

Hester Bates:
I think I mean, our main goal is to build meaningful relationships between advertisers and creators using data, so everything all of our campaigns go via our platform. And yeah, we bring together kind of all the different elements, so creative discovery, creature relationship management, campaign management, and campaign reporting. And like, that’s all kind of enriched with like, actionable insights, etc. So we really are enabling our clients to kind of make smarter decisions to kind of build those relationships with those creators. On the flip side, I would say you know, the content that comes out of our platform, because we are able to make these informed decisions based on the kind of all the data from the different platforms and past historic data from our past campaigns. Were able to work with the creators to produce some of the most creative content. I mean, I guess maybe I’m slightly biased, but you know, the most creative content I personally am seeing which I think does set us apart.

Jessy Grossman:
Definitely. And Hayley, what would you add to that?

Hayley Shortman:
Um, I think as well it comes down to the integrity of the team as well. All right. So we’re saying obviously, everything that we do goes through our platform and data drives a lot of our decisions. But I think one thing that I’m quite proud of within our team is our integrity with our clients as well. So for us, it’s a huge, there’s a huge kind of educational side to what we do as well, because we’re very aware that some, some of our clients come to us for that insight and that knowledge. So yeah, I’d say the team as well, great with it being quite a specialist subject. And we do have kind of sessions with our clients to make sure that they understand the decisions that we make him. And we’re quite, we’re quite good at advising them on the right path to take as well.

Jessy Grossman:
That’s awesome to hear. And I think it’s always just important to like, hone in on your why to hone in on, you know, what makes you unique as a business owner myself, so it’s great to hear that those are just some of the ways. Question for you, ladies, how can brands do a better job of partnering with influencers? Whoever wants to chime in on that one I’m very curious to hear your answer.

Hayley Shortman:
And I think from my side, it would just to be have that trust in them. I think most other content or media ways of working, you have a lot more control in terms of the content that comes back. And you can be a lot more refined with with output. But the, I guess the USP of working with influencers and creators is, you give them a brief and everyone comes back with something different. And I think if you can embrace that side of it, that’s where you get the best results, I think when it becomes quite tricky is when you try and refine it in the same way that you might work on other types of campaigns. And I think creators prefer working that way as well. And but like has to say in the beginning, as long as you kind of include your creators in that aspect of your brief so that they understand exactly what your objectives are. So if you’re trying to increase sales, or if impressions is your focus, like, let them in on that. But then in terms of producing the content, I trust them to take the lead. Because ultimately, that’s why we pick them as well for their expertise. So, yeah.

Hester Bates:
Yeah, I think I totally agree with that and just to kind of add on, so I guess, it’s an amazing opportunity for the brands as well. And I think they sometimes forget that, you know, these creators that we work with, they have such a close bond with their community and if the brand can kind of tap into that they’re able to use the creator and their communities as almost kind of like a focus group. So you know, for their content, but also I mean, bringing them in, in any stage of the even in terms of like the kind of product production process and that kind of thing you know, you can work with creators to almost if you bring them in at the beginning you can… they can help you to like refine your whole marketing campaign. And I think that’s quite often kind of forgotten by the brands.

Jessy Grossman:
Agreed. I think that’s a really really solid point too. And then I think it’s so important to always talk about the influencers themselves as the absolute backbone of our industry. And so question for you ladies as well like how can influencers do more work get more opportunities, but ultimately make more money? How can they improve?

Hester Bates:
I feel like there’s so many the platforms I think, are really kind of what’s the Y play kind of clicking on this at the moment and they are offering way more opportunities now for creators to monetize their followings. So I think TikTok released their creative fun didn’t know which they said like would enable creators to like earn money that reflected like the time care and dedication that went into connecting with our audiences. Clubhouse has payments, then twitch has has bits, I believe it’s called. Which gives like money as like tips to your favorite streamers. I’m not a big twitch use but I think that’s the one. So I think there are way more opportunities for creators to kind of monetize. And that’s an amazing compliment to influencer marketing, because I think influencers are being offered opportunities through the platforms to create more money, they’re then able to really focus on creating the actual, like, really focus on creating the content that they want to create and producing that really authentic high level content, which in turn feeds back into influence marketing, they’re able to kind of hone in their content creation, like abilities, and improve any kind of brand partnerships that they do further down the line.

Jessy Grossman:
Yeah, Hayley, I love to hear your side too.

Hayley Shortman:
I think from my side, there’s a lot more to working with creators than just the content they produce. I think my advice to creators would be don’t be afraid to say no to opportunities because we’d much rather someone turn us down if they feel like the brand isn’t right for them, or the content that we’re asking for isn’t going to perform well, rather than see that happen, and then have a disappointed client. I think it’s always good to look ahead of what opportunity sits in front of you, because we definitely see more success working with creators who have really nailed down their niche and really understand who their audience on what they want from them. So yeah, anyone that kind of says no, to us for that reason, I think, is really, really good thing and shows, it shows that they really know what they’re doing and what they want to set out to achieve. And I think then they’d only really pick the right collaborations for them. And that can only work well for both sides.

Jessy Grossman:
Absolutely. And you know, when it’s all working successfully, it’s a true partnership at the end of the day, and so everybody has to get out of it. Some like something, everybody has to get something really beneficial out of the relationship. So, you know, for example, we get this question, as we’re on Clubhouse a lot. We’re talking about Clubhouse earlier. And, you know, influencers will say, you know, should I work for, you know, below my rate? Or is there any, you know, instance in which it makes sense for me to work on like a strictly affiliate basis, for example, and it transparently, I used to say, No, I used to my answer would always be absolutely not like you are worth more, etc, etc. But I’ve sort of flipped my scripts a little bit lately. And I do think that there are certain instances in which there is still value to be gleaned from working on like an affiliate basis, or maybe even slightly below your normal rate, for example. And, you know, that could be to build up case studies that could be to build a relationship that can be because, you know, you’re still, you haven’t had a lot of brand partnerships, so you don’t have those relationships yet. And so, you know, you’re building your credibility in the industry. And there’s a certain like follower count, engagement, percentage, etc, in which that can make sense. So, you know, again, yes, a true partnership at the end of the day, I think it’s still important that like, everybody feels fulfilled, at the end of a contract that they’ve gotten, what they what they needed out of the situation. And if they haven’t, I hope that I wish that actually people would speak up a little bit more. Because usually, if you enter into an agreement, a partnership like that, like, everybody wants it to be successful at the end of the day, and there’s so many variables that are in play for all of this stuff that like, it is reasonable to think that you know, it, you could not necessarily that you may not reach all of your goals or KPIs, uh, certainly, with a one offs post. So, you know, I think that it’s, I hope that people are more collaborative, more communicative. And that would be something that I would like to see for the rest of 2021. I’m curious to hear from you, ladies, if you could make any predictions or, you know, something that you wish would be different or better for the rest of 2021? What would that be?

Hester Bates:
I think one of the main, like predictions and things that we’re really hoping will be different, and it is we are already seeing it massively is kind of, I guess, less of a focus on like follow count and engagement. We obviously saw Instagram roll out like removal of likes and stuff and that also, I think, I believe, rolling out the removal of follower accounts as well or testing it in some areas. And what we’ve seen this as man is this kind of movement of focus away from those kind of vanity metrics, and towards like deeper social metrics has meant that creators are able to actually focus on producing like more kind of meaningful and authentic content, which is kind of again, like being incredible, for instance, marketing, but it also, you know, resonates way better with audiences. And yes, kind of giving creators like way more opportunities to actually go back to basics and to do like, the things that they really came on to like Instagram, especially and those kind of more aesthetic content platforms, the reasons why they came on to those.

Jessy Grossman:
Definitely, and what about you, Hayley, if you could like, either predict something for the rest of 2021, or hope for change or something to be better that through the end of this year. What would you hope for? What would you change or what would you predict?

Hayley Shortman:
I think in terms of predictions as a couple for me, I think the first is and I think you touched on it before for us more long term partnerships with creators. As Hester said before, a lot of what we do in terms of selection of creators is hugely backed up by the data that we have. And when you really nail it with a creator and their partnership with a client, that client often doesn’t want to leave that collaboration now, which was really nice to see. So we’ve had a lot of campaigns who then continue to work with those creators. After that one, and we’re seeing a lot of our campaigns and extend into those long term partnerships, I can definitely see that happening more. And I think the second one would be a lot more focus on paid media, which is something that we’ve been doing a lot of over the last six months. And I think not only that, but I think creator content will start transferring over into other media forms. Not only because it’s more cost effective, I think people are starting to see that content is much more relatable to what we’ve seen before.

Jessy Grossman:
Yeah, I love that. And I’d love for you to tie that into a little bit more of the paid media piece that you mentioned. I think that it’s what I’ve seen is it’s absolutely something that moves the needle. But it can be daunting, it can be intimidating, or prevented, like it can get in the way. And people don’t necessarily know what to do with it or how to do it. If you could like break it down as the main reason. And maybe a simple strategy to start out with in terms of paid media. What would you tell everyone listening?

Hayley Shortman:
I think you’re right, t’s definitely something that’s been quite daunting over the last year. And it’s definitely taken off in the last few months. And I’ve seen from the campaigns that we work on that creators are starting to understand it a lot more and asking a lot more questions around there, which is great to see because it also challenges our. Our clients to think about it more and to understand what people want from it. I think from our side, it’s really just a way of amplifying the work that we’re already doing, and just extending it outside of, as Hester mentioned earlier, all of these creators have a very targeted audience and very close communities. And I guess the paid media element of it is just extending that out to not just anyone, but just broadening out that specific target audience. So yeah, it’s definitely becoming more and more common with our campaigns. And it’s another thing that our clients are coming for in terms of the right thing to do, especially when you run it alongside an organic creator campaign. So that partnership works quite well.

Jessy Grossman:
Definitely. And for those of you know, for people listening, who, you know, have maybe explored some paid social and boosting posts and things like that, and haven’t had the success that they may have hoped for. What would you suggest they look at differently or revisit?

Hayley Shortman:
I think first and foremost, the starting point is the is always the creators content, and you have to get that right first, otherwise, it’s not going to resonate with the audience that you want it to. So for us, the importance of picking the right creators is still top of our list. And then I would say I think from a paid media perspective, it’s just it’s still understanding that target audience and you can still be very niche in terms of who you target. It doesn’t mean that when you’re using paid media just goes out to everyone, you can still scale it down. And you can you can be pretty specific with paid media. So it doesn’t mean that you have to scale it up in terms of having a really wide audience, you can still keep it as nice as you would with with a creator campaign as well.

Jessy Grossman:
I love that. I appreciate that. I think again, like I feel like it’s just intimidating to some folks. And another thing that I’ve seen trend wise is that so many agencies for one reason or another are, you know, who are doing incredible work in terms of influence and marketing, tend to outsource that piece of their business, maybe because it’s intimidating or daunting or just it’s not in their wheelhouse and they would just rather outsource it. Are there any like resources that you would suggest in order to just like learn more about paid social work? What would you suggest?

Hayley Shortman:
My advice for creators and clients is just don’t be afraid to ask the questions because there’s so much to understand about it. And especially if you’re a creator, who’s whose content might be going further than their audience is definitely good to just be quite transparent about what you know, and what you don’t know. And that’s, we see that a lot with our creators, and we we really appreciate them asking the questions, because also sometimes it’s questions that we don’t know the answer to and we take it to the client. And like I said before, it can be quite thought provoking for the client as well. So yeah, I think it’s something running alongside a creative campaign is something that’s quite new but I think what, what we do quite well is because we do that in house as well, we we align the two quite nicely together.

Jessy Grossman:
I appreciate that. Yeah, I think, you know, in terms of education, there, there just needs to be more of it. Right? I mean, I, I can’t name you know, places other than than women, you know, there’s more that we could even do, where you can learn about these things. So to your point, I think it’s just like having conversations like this, like networking with others who are doing it, but I don’t know, I just want to empower people to perhaps incorporate that more into their own businesses versus feeling like you have to outsource it, there are so many, so many things that like, incorporating that can inform the full picture of, you know, the influencer partnership and brand partnership. So just my two cents on that. And I’m glad that you guys brought that up. I really appreciate that. So look, I have so enjoyed our conversation today, especially just getting to know you what, like you ladies personally a little bit better. If our listeners want to get to know you even more connect with you learn more about all the great services that you guys are providing? How can they reach out and learn more?

Hester Bates:
You can reach out to me honestly, on that kind of any medium, LinkedIn and it’s actually the probably the only term on there. Yeah, if people do have any more questions or anything like that, I’m always so happy to answer any or jump on a call. So get in touch.

Jessy Grossman:
Awesome. Hester. And Hayley, what about you? What’s the best way to get in touch if they want to reach out?

Hayley Shortman:
Yeah, same for me. LinkedIn, probably the best one, I’m always happy to kind of respond to any messages on the and obviously. All our influences stuff as well. We check our DMs quite regularly on there. So any questions from creators and more than welcome?

Jessy Grossman:
perfection. And so we will list all of that in the show notes. So everybody knows the best ways to get in touch. My last question for today, and this is a question for each of you, because I am excited to hear your individual answers. Let’s start with you. Hayley, what do you wish someone had told your younger self that would have given you a professional or personal advantage today?

Hayley Shortman:
Um, I think the best thing for me was just learning that you as an individual is how you do things is absolutely fine. I remember being really shy and nervous when it came to like public speaking and presenting. I slowly learned that like, your little individual quirks are what make make you different from everyone else. And there’s no like one set way of doing things. And I think embracing that and having confidence with that gets you a long way.

Jessy Grossman:
I would actually, like emphasize that even more, I could not agree with you more. I actually think that beat like leaning into all those quirks and those unique things about you actually make you like stand out in the best way and sets you apart from the crowd and, and really gives you a leg up. Isn’t it crazy? How like as kids especially we’re like trying to hide those things and fit in and all those things? And I don’t know, you grow up and you learn that like no, that’s like, that’s your calling card. Yeah, like that is what makes you special. I love that. You said that. And Hester, what about you? What would you tell your younger self that would have given you a professional or personal advantage?

Hester Bates:
Yeah, I think I’ve got to agree with Hayley. That kind of, yeah, what you the things that make you tick, like kind of lean into those. There’s no point and kind of trying to like, do the same things that other people are doing .ecause if they’re not the things that kind of get you going, like you’re not going to enjoy them and therefore you’re not going to like do a good job. And I think it’s also just really important to remember that also everyone is having those same thoughts, you know, and people really appreciate actually when, you know, you say like, maybe I don’t know, I don’t, I can’t do that because you know, people, people are like, at the end of the day, like most people are kind of intrinsically kind And then cut. Yeah, there’s no need to be scared if I keep getting things wrong or doing things differently.

Jessy Grossman:
I so appreciate the two of you coming on today is such great insights. I think the work that you guys are doing is fantastic so. So please keep that up, please stay active in WIIM . I know our members want to get to know you more, and have you just like dive into the community. So thank you both so much for joining today.

Hester Bates:
Thank you so much for having us.