Influence with Impact

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Hello, everyone! We have a couple updates on the community. We are doing so many more castings these days, which is super exciting, bringing our members together who are on the brand side and our members who are on the management side. So lots of great connections being made. Other connections that are being made recruitment, I’ve seen so many people start new positions at incredible companies. Hiring our members and it’s just like the coolest thing to witness. So one thing that we actually just changed. So this is an exciting announcement. So our members will be able to recruit from WIIM with no limit on how many roles you can do per month. Besides that, we’ve got great events coming up. We’ve got office hours now this one’s pretty cool, too. So this is for our VIP members. It’s one of your VIP membership perks, that we’ve got office hours, which are gonna happen simultaneously in a Facebook room, which is in the Facebook group and also on Clubhouse. We want you part of the conversation just because you have an Android and don’t have an iPhone, so we are not ones to discriminate. So we’re holding it in both places simultaneously so that we can have one big event include everybody, and office hours is just sort of what it sounds like. It’s a great opportunity for more premium networking, a great opportunity to get advice to information share and such as sort of pull the group and say like I’ve been seeing this trend that trends like what are you guys seeing so it’s a weekly opportunity 11am Eastern every single Friday just for VIP members. And besides that, we are going to be having a special Mother’s Day promotion for WIIM members. So keep an eye out for that it will be shared via email probably on our social like Instagram, Facebook, the whole thing so keep an eye out for that and more to come. So guys, this week’s episode you are going to love it was set is really truly has been one of my favorite podcast guests. I’ve been really enjoying getting to know her better over the past few months. She’s been in our Facebook community for the longest time and we sort of like reconnected again. As you know many months ago I actually saw her work that she’s been doing on TikTok about the influencer marketing industry on they’re putting out such cool videos and really just like educating people on all things influencer marketing, super cool. She is also killing it on Clubhouse and I have so much respect for her. So I relate because she’s also in New York. She’s also from Miami like I just feel like we’re very similar people and I hope you enjoy her as much as I do. So here’s a little bit about Lissette Calveiro.

So she is a Latina digital entrepreneur living in New York City like I mentioned, and she’s an influencer marketing consultant to Fortune 500 brands. She’s a social media content creator, which we dive into in this episode, and she’s a business coach for influencers and personal brands. So she is the founder of Influence With Impact which is a consultancy that supports influencers and personal brands and turning their social presence into a profitable business with community impact. She supports her clients through one on one coaching workshops and a signature 12 week group coaching mastermind. Previously she was director of influencer mark good enough Ogilvy. She has about 10 years of experience in PR and social media and as an established social influencer and content creator. She was recently named top 10 social media coach by Yahoo and she received a shorty Award for her influencer campaign work. We are so excited. You are really going to enjoy this conversation. Welcome to the podcast was set.
I am so excited to have you here with us today. So I’d love to have you in your own words just briefly introduce yourself and tell everybody listening like how you got into influencer marketing and a little bit about your story.

Lissette Calveiro:
Thanks so much for having me Jessy. I love being a part of WIIM. So first things first on that a little shout out that way. My name is Lissette and I like to say I’m a content creator, coach and consultant. So I got my start in influencer marketing by way of PR, public relations agencies and I started off doing a lot of earned media, a lot of events. Over time I became the token office millennial that new social media so combined public relations and social media. And somewhere there is influencer marketing or at least the the first definition of influencer marketing. My first job in the public relations spaces in 2012. So you can kind of guess what kind of space we were in. We used to pay bloggers at some point then YouTube started coming out, we would send youtubers stuff and eventually it is now formalized into what it is today. Before going off completely on my own and having my own consultancy, I was director of influencer marketing at Ogilvy. So my sole job was to run influencer campaigns, cast people report everything and it was really, really fun, truly loved working there. But one of my callings was I want to be able to use my life coach certification, which I do have to do business coaching and why not do the things I’m already doing for Ogilvy on my own was kind of the train or the train of thought. And in the beginning of 2020, I finally made the decision to go off on my own, not realizing a pandemic was on the way, which was really, really scary, but thankful that everything kind of happened the way it did, because I think 2020 prove that digital is really where marketing is moving toward. So I was definitely in a good position where I could both provide consulting for agencies, helping them set up influencer programs and processes, doing my own coaching and also helping manage some of the people that I coach and then continuing to do my own content creation. So I always like to say I’m on both sides of the industry on the brand side and creator side.

Jessy Grossman:
I love it so much. And like I don’t know, first and foremost, you’re such a breath of fresh air. I don’t know if I’ve ever like gushed over you so much before but like I gotta be honest, like I when.. you’re on Clubhouse, for example, I’m always wanting to hop into your rooms and I was just really genuinely looking forward to getting you on the podcast as well. I don’t know if it’s like we’re both from Miami or like, I don’t know you I don’t even want to give that like you just have such a good vibe to you. I think it’s so cool that you transitioned from working for a huge agency, like maybe people listening aren’t familiar. Anyone who’s been in the industry for at least like a hot second definitely knows of Ogilvy. It’s an agency that’s been around for decades. This is pre influencer marketing, for sure. So you know your stuff. And what a huge transition, it must have been to change from working in that like large, structured corporate environment, to then going out on your own and doing all of these things that you’ve been up to in the past like year plus, so and in the midst of a pandemic. Oh my god. So I just think it’s so admirable, but talk to us about the realities, because we always like to keep it real. We can romanticize entrepreneurship and solopreneurship and social media even that could be romanticized. But like, what is it like on a day to day doing what you do?

Lissette Calveiro:
That’s a great question and point of conversation, especially in the middle of a pandemic, which is a phrase that we’re going to keep using for years to come when we reflect on this time. And I was always one of those people that said, I studied PR, I started working in PR, I have a very linear career path and that’s what I’m doing for the rest of time. And I was one of those millennials that was always taught to, you know, chase different titles, and the next promotion for me would have been vice president to me that is like, Whoa, you know, I’ve made it if I got the BP title, and I said no, why don’t I get myself as CEO title and become my own business owner, which was very, very empowering, especially for someone who said, I’m never going to be an entrepreneur. And I think the reason why I said that is because I was kind of protecting myself and not allowing myself even the opportunity to fail but because of that, I wasn’t giving myself the opportunity to succeed. And one of the big waking… wake up calls for me was, I realized in roles like the one I had at Ogilvy, that was a brand new role, there was only one person doing that before I came in. And we were constantly inventing and reinventing the wheel. influencer marketing is constantly changing. So in a way, while being a nine to fiver, I was entrepreneurial. And I realized, I actually do have entrepreneurial spirit. So that was one of the main kind of drivers of realizing that I like being an entrepreneur. And that is, again, not to say that everyone needs to quit their job and start a business, I think, if you like working in a nine to five that you are passionate about and you value the company and the people you work around, that’s amazing. Now, I would challenge you to find little moments where you could be a little bit more creatively free or entrepreneurial, because that can make an experience so much better for you all. And then I did also have, like you’re saying kind of the ups and downs. So one major thing is, of course, the pandemic being here. And in February, one of the clients I was working with was in the travel space, so we kind of were seeing the issues start to happen but I thought, alright, this is definitely going to be like a two week situation, we go into quarantine, and then we come out of it. And when I realized now in March, we’re not coming out of this, of course, this client said all programs on hold, we’re not traveling anytime soon. That’s when I really, really started to panic. And to be super transparent, I did suffer a lot of mental health issues in the beginning of the pandemic, because it was both what have I done? Why did I decide to go off on my own now, and then this uncertainty, so for me, it showed up in a lot of panic. And a lot of you know, we’re all familiar with anxiety in some way, shape, or form. But one big thing that helped me move past that was going back to the drawing board and really asking myself, why am I doing this? So if social media didn’t exist today, if the pandemic shut down everything that I was doing, what do I really want to do for people? How do I really want to impact people? And my answer was, I really love influencer marketing, because I love that everyone can become their own business by using social media, they can literally turn on a platform. And I’m going to say in a very simplified terms, because we know it’s not that easy. But they can build a platform on social media, and all of a sudden build empires, you know, and so many big mega million follower influencers have done it people with just 100,000 followers have done it building empires from their phone. And to me, that was amazing. So I said, I want to continue to support the influencer industry but I want people to realize what impact they actually have. So beyond creating content, what are you actually doing for your community? How can you build a business out of it because you are a business owner, and then apply all the learnings I have from being on the brand side to the influencer culture space. So all that together translated into different revenue streams, right? So when it comes to consulting, I decided I’m really going to niche into just influencer marketing. Some people may have hired me for PR, social media management, but I was like, Nope, I’m denying those gigs now in the middle of a pandemic. And I’m only saying yes to the influencer marketing roles, because I want to build programs that truly understand the value of influencers, that are going to pay influencers fairly, they’re going to use them in a very strategic way and I’m thankful that I was able to do that. Then when it came to coaching, I said, this is where I’m going to show influencers, how to be better influencers, right? How to be community advocates for the things, they’re passionate about. How to build a business from the palm of your phone and then the third kind of major revenue stream, of course, is me continuing to create content, which is something that I was able to do through the ways I was already creating impact. So talking to people about entrepreneurship, about lifestyle, and then continuing to monetize in that way. So it really was me going back and asking myself, what the heck do I really want to do in the grand scheme of things and then the actual revenue stream how I make money from it will show up

Jessy Grossman:
A hundred percent. I mean, and that’s so cool that like, I don’t know, I feel like a lot of people feel pressured to stay in one lane. And what I think is is interesting unique about you is that not only are you in a few lanes and they are very well defined but like it seems very intentional to me it doesn’t seem like oh I’m just scrambling and nervous and I’m not getting at work like you’re like no these are the areas I want to explore and attack and like and create empires in and you’re doing them successfully. That’s the thing. I was actually speaking with somebody earlier that she was sort of overextended and was like should I drop a bomb clients, essentially. And I was like, Well, are you like… what are your goals? And are you achieving them with that side of your business? And sometimes these are hard conversations to have with yourself, especially as a solopreneur, right? Where like, the pressure is totally on you, you might not even have people to bounce these ideas off and at the end of the day, I think she should drop that client. But it’s so cool to hear that like, these are very intentional revenue streams for you and you know, it accomplishes all these goals. And we say the WIIM all the time, right? It’s like, especially with the influencer coaching piece that you do, I love hearing that because the smarter and more empowered our influencers are and more educated, the better our entire industry is going to be. And that is dope that you work on that and you focus on it and you have influencer clients. So let’s start there for any influencers who are listening like, what what’s like the like… a key learning that they should take away anything that they should like, implement starting tomorrow, some point of distinction or focus, what would you tell them?

Lissette Calveiro:
Wow, so many, but if I had to pick one is you very clearly need to define your mission. And a lot of people confuse knishes with missions. And while knishes I like to define them as kind of a space you play in, right? It’s kind of like the sandbox, you’re in here, you’re creating content, or you’re creating revenue streams around this specific space but your mission tells me what do i do and for who do I do it. And that’s very important, because that can then transcend beyond one social platform. So if you have a mission, and it’s a mission that’s evolved from the content you’re creating, from the business you already building now with that mission, you can begin to develop extensions of that, right? So for example, for me, when I first started creating content, right, so putting my influencer hat on. I remember I used to talk a lot about career I used to dub myself a career in business blogger. But then I realized No, no, like, My mission is to really help people find their influence and build businesses from that, right. So when I said that, that could be my Instagram bio but it’s also now my service that I offer. It is also the mastermind digital program that I’ve created. So from that mission comes so many other avenues of monetizing, but not just monetizing, like you said to make money and scramble and get the next thing that’s going to make me income. It’s very intentional monetization, because it’s all in alignment with what you want to do and who you want to do that for.

Jessy Grossman:
And it’s and it’s like your north star, like it sounds like you need that guidance to be able to inform all of your other decisions and especially if you’re a solopreneur as an influencer, or as a freelancer and influencer marketing. It’s so easy to get distracted by the million things that you have to accomplish in a day and these are things that I like for us to talk about whether it’s on the podcast and Clubhouse, wherever in the Facebook group because that’s the reality is and you know, look, we’re in like social media. So like everything on like, Instagram looks perfect. We try to dispel those things, right? Like, it’s, it’s nice, like… we’re all about branding, too. So it has to look pretty, but behind that, I hope that we can all be also simultaneously very honest about what that all looks like because otherwise we’re not setting up anybody for success at all whatsoever and it’s so important to do that. So can we talk about your social media use because I, I love that you’re on Clubhouse, you’ve got a podcast and I love your TikToks like months ago, I found you on there. I was just searching for like I was like is anyone doing stuff on influencer marketing, like education and stuff like that. I was like, Oh, shit, look at all these great TikToks that you’re doing. This is so cool. And I know I remember like putting you in the Facebook group and I was like, if you guys aren’t familiar yet, I was like, you have to check this out. This is so well done. Talk to me about how social media informs your business like not necessarily, you know, working with influencers and stuff like that, but like yourself and your own business on social media.

Lissette Calveiro:
Yeah, and what’s interesting is I think from the outside people think I must spend so much time on social media and the reality is that of course is a big part of my business but I’m very intentional with how I spend time on social media so I time block everything to be able to find balance. Even before we got on this call. I remember saying oh let me check since all my notifications are off. All my notifications period are in pretty much anything except iMessage and that to me just creates a lot more balance. I remember… I was talking to someone about this today how I first really started using social media to find a sense of belonging. I didn’t have any goal. I didn’t want to be an influencer. I kind of just joined social media. I created a lot of content because I wanted to find belonging. I wanted to have internet friends, I wanted to get rid of FOMO, you know, you get invited to events and things like that, right. And then I realized that it, the sense of belonging was coming from a very shallow place, it was around stuff and consumption, it was I want to belong, I want to get invited to events, I want to get free stuff. And then when I got there, when I went to the event, I had no friends. When I got the stuff, I felt empty. And then I went back and I said, Wait, wait, what can social media really do for me, and that’s when I started to kind of pivot my relationship with social media and talk about community. And I do that very intentionally. I don’t even use the word audience. I always say my community because it’s people and it’s some people looking at you, it’s people who are working in tandem with you, sharing experiences with you. So for me social media, even if it wasn’t just a byproduct, you know, a way that I get leads and a way that I monetize. It’s a place for community. And within that community, I do get a lot of information and feedback that informs my business. So one thing that I did last year is I realize, what is the next kind of product, or what’s the next business idea that I want to do within this space? And I just looked toward my community, and I realized a lot of them we’re a wanting to create similar spaces, right? So they are looking at me for this influencer advice and tips, but not just to give them stuff they can Google. They’re wanting to know, how do I have a more impactful social media presence? How do you build community? How do you show up authentically, all these buzzwords, all these things. So I said, I’m going to build a mastermind where because a mastermind was kind of the container where we can talk about these things, or break them down, and also supplement you with the education so we can get there. And all these new things that I’ve kind of come up with over the last year, which really have been, the reason why I’ve scaled as much as I did is listening to my community, and not just listening to them, but creating content in alignment with what their needs are. And it’s a balance because I also don’t want people to listen to this and say, I must do what people want for me. It’s not that, you just want to build a conversation with your community. Here’s something I’m passionate about creating, your stuff I like talking about and I realize you need this. I know your pain points. I know your pleasure points and I’m going to talk to them in the content that I create, which is why I think a lot of the content that I make does come off magnetic not because I’m an incredible content creator, you know, there’s so many people who are so great at creating amazing content. But what I know I do well is I know my community really hard and I make it a mission to make them feel seen and heard. So they get excited about the stuff that I’m making.

Jessy Grossman:
I love that. I think that it’s so cool to think about just like fully understanding your community. And look, whether you’re an entrepreneur in a business that touches social media, or you’re an influencer yourself, like, take this away from what Lissette just said, it has to be a two way conversation. Like I feel like gone other days where it’s like to this or like, here’s this, here’s my beautiful photo at whatever beach and I’m just beautiful. Or you know, anything that it’s just like, what a one way conversation, the more engaging, the more interesting, the more dynamic, and certainly the most community building atmosphere is going to be where it’s shared conversation back and forth between you and your community and the the real, like the real money is one and I use that term not literally, but the real like gold is when your community is speaking amongst each other. Right? And and when just the conversation extends even far beyond yourself, which I think is what you’ve done in you know, in Clubhouse, certainly where, you know, you’ve got a great community on there, and certainly on TikTok where you know, people like you, you said that you’re like, I know what your, what your pain points are, and I can help educate you, which I think is so awesome. Like, it takes a certain type of person to approach it that way, right? Like you can approach influencer marketing in a number of different ways, whether it’s like, you know completely about the, you know, selling the product or getting the KPIs are hitting the this and like checking all the boxes, but I think that you the way that your approach hits me is that it’s very much about the long game. Really educating a business the industry as a whole. And I think that that’s huge. So we’re gonna pause for just a sec, because what I love to do is also just to get to know you a little bit more, personally. And so we have a few like rapid fire fun, get to know you questions, but I’d love to throw your way. So let’s dive into those first sack, if you don’t mind. Um, first question for you. Well, here’s a good one to start with. What’s your favorite social media platform?

Lissette Calveiro:
It’s actually Instagram. And I feel like every time I say this, people are shocked because there’s this Instagram haterade right now, but I love Instagram because I do think it’s the first place a lot of people go to search for things, whether you are looking for inspiration, entertainment, education, and Instagram, by way of listening to other social platforms does have the most holistic platform where you can do short form video live long form, so just so many features to take advantage of, which is why I still love Instagram as my number one.

Jessy Grossman:
I love it. It’s valid. I love it. You’re never gonna hate on Instagram. So Instagram, it is. What do you think is the best age to be?

Lissette Calveiro:
Wow, great question. I will have to say the best age to be is probably 30, early 30s. And I’m going to say this not because I’ve hit my early 30s yet, but because I’m really into astrology. And by that point, you have passed your Saturn return meaning you’ve grown the heck up.

Jessy Grossman:
Yes, I love that. I am in the to astrology. So I’m feeling that answer. I love it. What is your biggest motivation?

Lissette Calveiro:
I’ve really, so from a personal level motivation. There’s a few role models that are just constantly like to seek for motivation. One of them is Rachael Rogers, who is a business coach and entrepreneur but also when I’m just feeling burnt out. My favorite way to get myself motivated is by going outside. I really love spending time outside.

Jessy Grossman:
I love that it’s probably the Miami girl on you. I don’t know, just like enjoying the sun. I’m right there with you. The weather’s finally changing here in New York, and oh my god, it’s so nice. What did you want to be when you were growing up?

Lissette Calveiro:
Well, as a kid, I wanted to be an astronaut and that turned into meteorology. And I say that very seriously. It was not until my high school senior year that I decided I’m really bad at chemistry. So I can’t be an on air meteorologist but that was the path. And when I let that go, I decided I want to be a news anchor. And then I let that go because I decided I don’t like being on camera. Look at what I do now. But at that point, that’s when I decided to be in public relations, quite the journey.

Jessy Grossman:
Quite the journey. But I definitely see through life and I love that an astronaut. That’s awesome now. And if you could try out a totally different profession for a day, and it wasn’t an astronaut. What would you do?

Lissette Calveiro:
Wow, you have the best questions. I think I would try out being a lawyer because I really do love social justice issues. I would love to be a lawyer for human rights.

Jessy Grossman:
I love that. Do you consider yourself an introvert or an extrovert?

Lissette Calveiro:
I consider myself a hybrid. I recharge best when I’m alone but I do love being around people in general.

Jessy Grossman:
And last but certainly not least before we jump into more like influencer marketing specific questions. Look out what’s the most interesting thing that you can see out of your window right now.

Lissette Calveiro:
So I live in Long Island City and outside my window is the Queen’s bridge, which is really beautiful to look at.

Jessy Grossman:
That is beautiful. Well, hi from Brooklyn. Awesome. And so let’s let’s dive into a little bit about Clubhouse specifically. So there are a lot of brands that I’m consulting that I know a lot of others are consulting, and they are looking to explore what they can do on Clubhouse. What are your two cents on a brand’s on Clubhouse?

Lissette Calveiro:
So I do think that clubhouse is worth exploring because of the intimacy of audio. So you really can get a very important message across that I think people are going to connect with and the way that’s different than some static content, whether it’s a blog post a photo, a video elsewhere, the challenge with Clubhouse is that it’s very hard to create a path for conversion. So while we can have amazing conversations about brands, there is no clickability, there is no way out of clubhouse unless you literally tell someone please go visit the link in my bio or please go elsewhere. And that I think causes a little bit of a challenge. So it’s more so a platform problem that I’m sure that they will solve But the brands that I think should be on Clubhouse are the ones who create brand equity meaning just more, I would say more share voice, right. So they want to be talked about more through topics that are not about their product. So a brand, for example, that’s in the beauty space, you’re coming and having a conversation around body positivity and confidence. I think that’s so much stronger than sitting here and doing Q&A about how great our products are, because it’s just not really what Clubhouse is for. So what I hope I see is that brands are leaning into topics of conversation, more than promoting different things on Clubhouse. And I did have an experience and you may have be about to us this where I did a sponsored room and that’s a good example of where well, I was talking about this one specific technology product for influencers. The whole conversation was about on position online and the best way to be professionals and influencer that helped people stick around. So that then whether or not it took them that extra step to go click on the thing I want them to they were still part of the conversation. Weeks later, I had people dming me saying, I just remembered the thing you talked about, and I signed up. So it didn’t happen that moment but the conversation was so rich for them that they remembered the interaction.

Jessy Grossman:
Well, it’s so rarely happens in that moment that, you know, we talked about this a lot about first touch, second touch third touch marketing. I learned that from somebody about I don’t know, a little over a year ago, and you know, essentially that like first touch marketing, when they’re when somebody is first exposed to a brand or product. They are like, you know, 5% less likely to actually convert, but second or third touch highly more likely. And I wish that people operated, knowing that a bit more and believing that because it’s so true. And so it’s it’s more about like coming up with a long term strategy. And the strategy to have more like intimate conversations on a platform like Clubhouse, you know, is is such a strong play. And whether it’s clubhouse or another platform, I think like what resonates to me about what you said, is it’s so much less about the like in your face on the nose promotions. And I got i hope that brands like just quit that because it’s so pervasive, and it’s just so simultaneously ineffective. What are your thoughts on not?

Lissette Calveiro:
Well, I still follow the marketing rule of it takes at least seven times for someone to see something before they convert. And similarly to the way that I function as a business owner. I’m always thinking about my ideal clients, pains, pleasures, the things they’re searching for, I’m really constantly thinking about that all the time, just in the way that I communicate with them, right? So it’s not going to force me to create any type of content, but it’s going to change the context that I produce things in. And I think that’s something that brands are not doing enough of because they’re, they’re thinking numbers, right? So they’re thinking, if I show this to them 20 times, they’re gonna get it. But even those 20 times, he didn’t actually address why they need this or even like create a problem for them of why you would be the solution, then it doesn’t matter how many times they see it, it’s just going to be clutter and noise. You really want to make sure you connect with the people you’re trying to reach.

Jessy Grossman:
Yeah, so you got to connect, you got to solve problems like you I love that or create a problem. That’s so smart. I love that. And then look, speaking of numbers, I would be crazy if I didn’t ask you and discuss a little bit about how to appropriately charge as an influencer. And you know, how much brands are paying and how much content is worth. So let’s dive into that a little bit. It’s such an important conversation to have we host conversations like this a lot. You’ve been part of some of them. And we got to do it more. So you know, look is there when it comes to an influencer? Let’s talk to the influencers out there who are wondering if they’re under charging or appropriately charging. Are there like a few key things that you would want to drive home to them about how to find where their sweet spot in pricing maybe?

Lissette Calveiro:
Yeah, yeah. And one thing that I use in my formula for calculating a rate if you’re an influencer is your base price per item, right? So that lowest amount that you want to charge because we’re going to get into reading the contract and understanding what they’re really asking you is look to one to 5% of your audience size as a place to start right without everything else because I think that a lot of people, they get stuck and asked in asking how much to charge because they need a formula. And we’re here and we know you and I have said there is no perfect formula. But when you tell people one to 5%, and then you contextualize it and say 1%, is you’re a newbie, you’re a beginner, you have no idea what you’re doing, at least you’re charging 1% of your followers, size. 5% is you are totally amazing, you’ve been doing this for a while, you’re exactly who the brand needs. And you’re an expert content creator. That’s where you start. Because then you can kind of realize that there’s a range and you’ve said this before, too. Sometimes the market is demanding more or less of a price. That’s why there is no one number. But if you can look at one to 5% and start there, that’s a good way for you to look at it. Now the next things that go into pricing is usage of your content, right, different brands may be asking to repurpose your content. Some brands may want to use your content as an advertisement. And it’s different if they were using it for just a social media ad versus tomorrow, you’re on a billboard. So you really want to make sure you know those things up front before you even give them a price. Next thing would be exclusivity and I say this because every brand is going to ask for it in some way, shape or form. It’s different if they’re saying, hey, for 12 months exclusive to our brand, meaning you can’t work with any competitor for 12 months, versus Hey, for two weeks, can you not work with competitors, I may not charge extra for two weeks. But if you ask me for a year, I’m going to charge you all the money I might have lost. So those three things into that base price usage, exclusivity is very, very important. But then you don’t want to forget your time because often times when we’re looking at a campaign, we’re thinking about just the product, right? That’s what I said, you’re looking at that price at that item that you’re making, but what about all the time you’re spending. So what I tell influencers to do as a really nice practice of making sure you’re charging a little more of your worth is give yourself a number of what hourly rate you would charge for creating campaigns, maybe this is, again, you’re brand new to the space. So we’re going with minimum wage, $15 an hour, maybe you are an expert, people are hiring you as a consultant, then you’re going to charge $150 an hour, whatever that number is for you. And then ask yourself, how long is this campaign really going to take me outside of creating this am I going to spend two hours back and forth with the brand? Do I not have to go shop for the thing where it’s going to take me two hours out of my day? Add up those hours and multiply it by your hourly rate. And that’s something you can add to kind of beef up your price. Again, you’re not telling the brand. Here’s this item line item number on this one, we’re just telling you how to better calculate a rate. So kind of looking at the deliverable, the usage, exclusivity and time would be the best way to ask, am I charging something that’s at market value? Now the last thing I want to say is we even with this perfect little outline, it’s not going to be a perfect formula. Some brands will have less budget, some brands may have more budget. So a good rule of thumb is when you’re going into negotiation conversations, you as the influencer always be the first to ask, what’s your budget, I would love to find a package that works around that. Sometimes a brand may tell you what their budget is and now you know, sometimes they might not but at least you’ve kind of started off on the right foot with negotiation. Once you know, talk to them, and maybe you get the yes or no, you’re kind of talking back and forth. Another little note, I like to say is if you’re getting automatic yeses for a streak of time, so if you give out a price and the brands like Yep, great. And the next one, yep, yep, yep. Yep, you’re probably not charging enough. Because brands should be negotiating with you, they should say, can you do $500 less? When they do that, you know that you’re meeting them at their max budget, and they’re just really trying to make you fit versus if they’re getting an automatic yes, then you’re probably undercharging to the people you’ve been talking to, because they’re super happy to say yes, without even talking further.

Jessy Grossman:
For sure. And building that negotiation into your quote, because you should expect just like you said, for them to say to counter your proposal. And so in order to get ultimately to the number that you bought, you got to charge actually a little bit higher than that. And so taking all of that into consideration, so huge. And also I love what you’re saying about time, and not enough people when they’re negotiating initially are accounting for some of the things that are more contracts are considered more contractual points, for example, rounds of edits, which are completely directly tied to your time. And so you know, when you’re going back and forth on deliverables usage, exclusivity, think about, you know, negotiating upfront how many rounds of edits there would be, because that’s a completely valid piece of how to appropriately quote somebody in a proposal. So I think that As we sort of wrap up this conversation. I would love to hear with all of your really impressive experience. And you’re like doing it girl like you are, you not only have the experience and the clout to back it up, but you are like, you’re creating the content, you’re advising brands, you’re coaching influencers, like you really have such a healthy perspective from all different angles. I want to hear from you about like, what would you like to see be different in the influencer marketing space as we move through 2021?

Lissette Calveiro:
Thank you for all that promo, by the way, you were so kind and I do have to plug and say, being a member of WIIM since before the paid subscriptions, which is like snaps. I love being a part of the community. So thank you for what you’ve built. And I would say one thing that I do want to change is I would really like there to be some sort of formalized way of charging, because I think that that would a help creators just get paid their worth the same way that in other industries, we at least know a range of numbers, I think we’re a long ways away from that but that would be what I would love to see. And then that also would help on the brand side, you can actually budget better, because we would know, hey, there’s this kind of industry standard. So at least we would know how much recap to put up front, or when a brand says you’ve got $10,000 to use. I know I can probably only go with this type of influencer, that type. So that would be very helpful. But also from another perspective, I think less focus on vanity metrics, which I think we’re seeing that a little bit more. So let’s focus on how many likes this person has. How many comments do they have? and more on what is the conversation being hot in the comments? Because even today’s world, there’s so many influencers who are on things like comment pods, and they think the brands don’t know. And you know, they’re getting the same comments from the same 200 people and brands are looking I think the brands that are smart are looking at this and saying there’s no real connection here. So more value on people who have strong communities versus strong bandy metrics.

Jessy Grossman:
Yeah. And I love seeing case studies where they’re, you know, screenshotting, DNS and stuff like that, like talk about like the other side of a vanity metric like that, behind the scenes conversations between, you know, some followers and these influencers, and they’re really asking me about, like those product recommendations. I mean, I don’t know, I’ve seen some really successful brand partnerships happening in Instagram stories, you know, utilizing those Instagram’s specific features of like, the questions and the polls and the whatever, to really get those people to engage with you. And then screenshotting those because if you don’t, it’s such a missed opportunity. Because exactly what you said you’re saying is that, you know, it’s so important to really weigh the importance of the, you know, the conversion by things like, you know, how interested are they really, you know, and you can’t get that by a one word comment, or certainly not just a tap, double-tap and a like. It’s been such a pleasure having you on and I would love to like you’re such a great podcast guest. I am so grateful that you could come on today. What’s I have a feeling Oh, well, you know what, Oh, my gosh, I almost forgot to ask you our final question that we always ask our guests, how could I not do that? So the final question is, what would you tell your younger self that would have given you a professional or personal advantage today?

Lissette Calveiro:
I would tell my younger self to stop googling for answers and look inside myself for answers, period.

Jessy Grossman:
I love that. That’s so good. Trust your gut ladies and gentlemen. And if those listening want to get in touch with you, which I’m sure they want to. What’s the best way to do it?

Lissette Calveiro:
So you can follow me @lissettecalv on Clubhouse, TikTok, Instagram, those are my top three places I’m in. I also have a business page called Influence With Impact and that is the name of my consultancy. So you’ll get influencer specific resources more toward creators if that’s you listening in here. And otherwise, feel free to shoot me a DM I’m very chatty. So I’m happy to connect with everyone.