Discovering your Style of Leadership

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Jessy Grossman:
What is up everybody? I am so excited and pumped. It’s a new week. I don’t know why I’m so excited but I genuinely am. I think it’s because we’re launching a lot of new things with WIIM. We’ll be announcing that sometime soon. But in addition, we are doing so much on a Clubhouse y’all. We did an entire podcast episode on Clubhouse.

We are utilizing it so much and finding so much success on there. And success to us just means reaching new people, making connections, really educating people and having like really thought provoking discussions about influencer marketing, social media technology, all sorts of stuff. So if you are not on Clubhouse guy, we have lots of invitations, just dm us on Instagram we’re at iamwiim, WIIM on there, we’re happy to give you an invite, because we want you at the party, we’re having so many rooms, check out our website www.iamwiim/events. And we’re listing all of our upcoming events on there, of course, but even our Clubhouse events, because we want sort of one centralized place where you can see everything that we’re up to, we’ve got involved, tons of different topics happening. And you know, our platform is your platform, you know, it’s it’s a place that we can give you a speaker spot, a panel spot, a way to have your voice amplified, come into the audience and just listen if you like but definitely raise your hand on a Clubhouse stage and bring yourself up. We want to hear what you have to say. That’s really truly the reason why we’re doing them. We do have an incredible panel this week that is being hosted on Zoom. This is part of our masterclass series. So all of those events are completely free for our members. This one is all about the power of female-led negotiations. And you heard me right the power and we’ve got three incredible women who are all part of the panel. So we hope to have you join us if you are a member also keep in mind that you get full access to all of our past events as well all those replays are basically we have a whole library full. So if you ever missed an event because we know you are busy, busy, you could just tune in on your own time.

Check it out, enjoy it. They’re all educational, inspirational like all the good feels. I’ve always said if I could be living my life the way that I want I will be learning forever. So I love this shit. I hope you guys too. And tell me how you’re enjoying Clubhouse because we’re going pretty deep in Clubhouse are really investing there because it’s it seems so synergistic with everything that we’re doing. So we’re hosting rooms pretty regularly finding cool rooms on there, but also finding spaces where the topic of discussion about influencers seems a little played out. So we’re trying to keep it fresh on there and do something different. But tell me how you’re enjoying it. Are you on there? Are you in social media influencer rooms? Are you on there talking about other stuff? What do you want? What do you not want? Send us a DM on Instagram, because of course called passes and have DMS yet you can always follow us on Clubhouse we’re just at wiim there WIIM also we recorded this episode live on Clubhouse with Joe here so that was pretty cool. People got to tune in and actually hear it recorded live in real time be able to ask questions after so just another reason why Clubhouse has been so fun, but I’m DMS and let us know your thoughts. We’re also doing fun stuff in our stores all the time. So we just want to hear from you guys more often. And anyways, without further ado, this is such a good episode. Saeyoung works at Captiv8. She’s a really incredible woman you should definitely connect with her and enjoy this week’s episode all I hope you’re doing well and staying healthy. An entrepreneur at heart Saeyoung loves to build teams, offerings and partnerships. Over the last nine years she’s worked across the social spectrum of paid, owned and earned to build social first brands with dozens of clients. At Horizon Media, Saeyoung developed and led the agency’s first in house influencer marketing practice. She spearheaded partnerships across data providers talent groups and production that lead to award winning campaigns such as the LA is best influencer campaign and a shorty Award for Best Automated Branded Campaign. Saeyoung has been recognized by synopsis as an honoree of their digital it lists award. Her hunger for new challenges does not end at building meaningful systems Saeyoung has an insatiable appetite. And if she were influencer, she would start a mukbang channel where she can give career advice while eating massive amounts of carbs. Welcome to the podcast. Alright, everyone. So for those tuning in on Clubhouse, welcome, we are going to have a fun like 30-45 minutes or so of chit chatting with Sae of Captiv8. So for those tuning in on Clubhouse, we do sort of behind the scenes peeks of us recording podcast episodes every so often. But we also have some fun content on here regularly. Sae, I am so excited to have you on today. I’ve been like following your professional journey now for a few years and you’ve just been such a great player in the influencer space and I think it’s so cool that you’re now with Captiv8 who’s doing such great stuff. So I’m super excited to just like dig into a fun conversation with you but first and foremost thank you for joining today.

Saeyoung Cho:
Of course let’s do it. Tell all style on all things influencer marketing.

Jessy Grossman:
Amazing. So first and foremost, tell us a little bit in your own words just about your professional journey and how you got to influencer marketing.

Saeyoung Cho:
Absolutely, It has not been a straightforward path it’s been a lot of left and right, but over the past decade I have been working across the social spectrum of paid owned earned to build some social first brands with with folks such as Playboy, J Brand jeans, Zicam, Jack in the Box, you name it, it’s all over the board. I started in kind of community management and that was back when brands were asking us should we even have a Facebook page is this worth it? Which is amazing. Because now as we’ve seen the industry’s just developed and social media no longer outsourced it’s been brought right in hand it is a crucial part of marketers channel mix. And through that it’s just expanded in my journey. Why I ended up most recently I was working with Horizon Media developing and leading their in house influencer marketing practice, spearheading partnerships across data providers, talent groups and production and getting to work on some really amazing award winning campaigns. And that is actually how I got to know Captiv8 and saw kind of how they were leading the industry as it relates to kind of the most trusted data and how they were evolving their platform for marketers needs really impressed me stood out. And it’s been an incredible journey to get to here where I am leading their head of strategic partnerships for Captiv8 and getting to work with them some incredible clients.

Jessy Grossman:
So honestly, I have so much respect for your journey. And it’s just so cool to hear, like, where you’ve come from and where you are now. But I want our listeners to get to know you a little bit better. So I have some rapid fire questions for you.

Jessy Grossman:
So everyone can get to know you personally, a little bit more. We’ve been doing these on the show. They’re super fun. Are you ready?

Saeyoung Cho:
I’m ready.

Jessy Grossman:
Amazing. Okay, don’t think about these too much. Just whatever comes first to your mind. Well, this is very appropriate. What’s your favorite food?

Saeyoung Cho:
Oh my gosh, Kimchi Fried Rice.

Jessy Grossman:
Yes. What’s your favorite vacation spot?

Saeyoung Cho:
Oh, that’s so hard anywhere with a beach and a cocktail.

Jessy Grossman:
What’s your favorite social media platform?

Saeyoung Cho:
Instagram.

Jessy Grossman:
Favorite color?

Saeyoung Cho:
Um. It’s true influencer fashion. I’m a sucker for beige.

Jessy Grossman:
What’s neutral aesthetics? I mean it they’re so calming though. I totally get it and they’re beautiful and calming at the same time. What is the best age to be?

Saeyoung Cho:
Hmm, gosh, I feel like that is so it depends for everybody. But I will say I think that my 30’s has been. It’s been amazing.

Jessy Grossman:
Yes. And lastly, what’s the best part of your job?

Saeyoung Cho:
Best part of my job is being able to make real impact to be contribute to the larger direction and vision of this company. That’s my favorite part.

Jessy Grossman:
I love it. Two years ago, I took a demo of your product, you know this, and I thought so highly of it. And then recently I got a refresher, I am equally as impressed. I think it’s so cool what you guys have built and just how it’s truly supporting all the great work that people are doing. If you were to sum it up into the three best features, the most compelling features of Captiv8, what would you say those are?

Saeyoung Cho:
Well, first and foremost, what a great endorsement, Jessy, we’re gonna ask for a quote and put you on the website. I’m so excited to kind of hear that feedback that’s been crucial to the development of our product. I would say, you know, our customers are the biggest driving force of our product roadmap and journey for development, because we get so much rich feedback on what marketers needs are. My three favorite features that I think really stand out to me, I am also equally geek about data. The competitive and social insights, I think, is really unique and different. So it really goes beyond just finding the right influencer, and of course, providing that data there. But also why are we even doing this? What are the meaningful whitespaces that we can beat our competitors? So tracking competitors, what they might be doing with influencers, uncovering their influencer campaigns, and then organizing it all into a benchmarking report. So you can finally contextualize. Okay, I did this campaign, and how does that stack up against the other people that that are comparing myself to I think that’s some really meaningful insights that lead to better decision making around why influencers. That’s the first one. The second favorite feature is I really think the creator insights. At the end of the day, you know, all the platforms are providing amazing data at this point, you know, direct from API’s and platforms. The pieces that I think are really unique to Captiv8 is first and foremost are first party data. So really actually gathering the insights from creators themselves when they authenticate into our platform. There’s the ability for advertisers to post kind of customer surveys where they can ask readers What are your food preferences? Are you comfortable featuring your kids and content? Those nuanced questions that aren’t going to show up from an audience demographic, you know, age and gender breakout. And it’s really goes beyond to with brand safety. So actually giving marketers an easy score, to assess risk, audience quality as well, we actually break down of their any given influencers following. Are they mass followers? Does it look spammy? Are they conducting and spam activity to kind of give marketers a sense of the engagement quality they can expect from creators. And then the brand affinity piece, you can quickly understand and see on a creators profile, what brands they are mentioning, organically? or in a sponsored fashion, you can quickly click on those brands, see how many times they’ve mentioned that brand, and see the content. And I think that’s been really powerful for folks to uncover organic brand ambassadors, and that might be talking about their brand, and they didn’t even know it. So it’s actually trolling not just the content itself, but BIOS, captions, imagery. And that’s been pretty powerful. And last, but not least, the payment of influencers. It sounds tactical, but it’s a real challenge for folks to meet the demands, these influencers are expecting payments, you know, net 15, and they got bills to pay and things to do. And these large enterprise brands that don’t have that kind of cash flow turnaround from their clients need flexible options, and what a shame to miss out on talent, because, you know, the billing structure wasn’t right. So being able to pay influencers directly from our platform, whether in a finance fashion, or upfront, I think providing that flexibility. I’ve we’ve seen an incredible response from clients.

Jessy Grossman:
Well, I can imagine why because it’s one of the biggest pain points that people experience on all sides of the equation. So you know, from the brand perspective, everything you just mentioned, and then from the influencers perspective, they’re like, it’s crazy, because it’s only because of them that we have influencer marketing yet from a payment perspective, it almost feels as if they’re the lowest person on the totem pole. Right? And that’s crazy. But you mentioned about financing. Can you talk a little bit more about that? That’s unique.

Saeyoung Cho:
Yeah, so we work with a partner called Tipalti, where we’re actually able to finance campaigns on behalf of advertiser. So let’s say you are launching a 200k campaign, you know, your client is going to pay you, but you have kind of nuanced payment terms with that client. And you got to turn this around fast, you got to get content up in two weeks or less. So there is an option where actually we will finance that on your behalf, pay those creators be responsible and liable for those payments and make sure they go out on time, you get your content, and then you guys can pay us back when the cash comes in from a client.

Jessy Grossman:
Well, what a helpful him that is. But I, I’ve heard of a couple people doing this, I just think it’s incredible that you guys are getting behind something like that, because all that it sort of communicates to me is, you know, that that you’re really truly here to support. I mean, you guys are technically the ones taking on the risk of that in a way in a sense. And like, you wouldn’t do it if you didn’t like believe in, you know, hey, we’re set up to be able to support this, we’re willing to do that. Because we want to improve the whole ecosystem. So I think that’s so cool. I this is a request or an ask that we get all the time in WIIM, which is we have influencer marketers or managers or you know, people who touch influencer marketing from all different directions, who come to us. And they’re like, I have gotten to the point that I’ve scaled my business. And I know that I need support. And we work in technology all like we work in technology. And there should be more tools to support the work that we’re doing. However, it can feel overwhelming with all of the different tools that are out there. Who do I use and who fits my my scenario, my budget, supports what I do, etc, etc. I think that there are with all the tools out there. Not every tool is right for everybody. And, you know, each tools sort of has its own focus and think that it does best. So it’s great to hear what your what you would identify as like your three best features, was captivate different, like, how do you guys really sort of stand out amongst other competitors that you guys have? And is there any sort of like, specific thing that you guys are most proud of that makes you different or unique?

Saeyoung Cho:
Yeah, absolutely. I think really, our competitive advantage is I mean, we call it platform powered expert enabled. And the truth is, at the end of the day, we built a tool for us. So we both run campaigns from a managed service camp capacity soup to nuts. And through that process, we went through the same experience you’re describing Jessy, okay, how do we scale this? How do we make this viable? How do I do this without just putting my, like losing blood, sweat and tears here, and we built a tool for us. So it the product is… is the result of real world campaign experience, but also kind of the data science and insights that help scale those decision making those many decisions that go into running a campaign. So understanding the nuances of that has been crucial to informing the development of the product, the pain of executing a campaign, you know, helped us build something amazing, that’s helped him mystify and harness some of the data science of influencer marketing for others. And ultimately, we get it right, the data can help you to a certain point. And and at the other end, sometimes it’s an art and a science to finding the right creator, but we definitely think by having kind of experience in both ends of the spectrum from technology to a very high touch relationship building business, that we kind of understand those needs across the spectrum from creator, to advertiser to agency.

Jessy Grossman:
Well, I gotta say, it’s a really, it is actually refreshing to hear that because in my experience with a lot of tools that I found, like, so many of them are, like, 90% there. And when there is a little bit missing, it tends to be that there’s perhaps been too much focus on the tech and not recommended and they don’t recognize or incorporate anything about, okay, but like, what is the real day to day that I need to be able to do my work? And some of the more practical things aren’t necessarily included. So it’s super cool to hear that and it makes perfect sense given even your own professional journey, right, which is like you have agency experience. You’ve worked on the brand side and you’re like no, but like I’ve actually done this and I think that it speaks volumes that they’re like, no, I want her on our team because she you bring that perspective. And you can speak to that side of it. And so you’re not so hyper focused just in one area. I think that’s really great. And like, that just speaks volumes unto itself. Let’s talk a little bit more about you. I mean, I think, again, like I followed your professional journey for a while, and I’m just really impressed with everything that you’ve achieved. In your own opinion, what’s your proudest professional achievement?

Saeyoung Cho:
This is such a great question. Um, I, you know, and I’ve been thinking a little bit about it. And I actually, I think my proudest professional achievement has been figuring out what kind of leader I want to be. I know, that’s not you know, it’s not a it’s not an award or a particular campaign. But it’s been a byproduct of a lot of trial and error. Shout out to all the team members that I’ve worked with who might have dealt with it. But you know, to me, this is so important, and I’m uncompromising about what it means to care for a team foster growth. And I think that journey is just a million times more important to me than the bottom line personally. And being able to put people first, I think, has actually resulted in better work, better fulfillment, better retention. And I’m really proud of that person I hope I am becoming and wanting to pass that on to the next generation of women in influencer marketing.

Jessy Grossman:
I love that answer. Talk to me more about, you know, you mentioned that it’s fulfilling to you, I mean, talk about what that journey has been like, and and how it’s felt fulfilling.

Saeyoung Cho:
Yeah, I mean, I think when when we can all take a step back and take stock of our own personal growth, when we can acknowledge our weaknesses. And then not really, it’s not about perfection, it’s about progress. Right? But how have you changed? How are you benchmarking that success, I mean, that’s the kind of, you know, I think thing that is can be fulfilling for yourself, but also when you see that in others, when you see that somebody has come into your company or on your team, and started in one place, and struggled and outlined goals, and in three years, is able to recognize that they themselves have done it for themselves and made those changes. I think that’s kind of what we’re all doing it for. And it’s so much more satisfying to me, then kind of the day to day, you know, operations and decision making. It’s the people and it’s the growth and that’s been what I when I reflect on my favorite days of work. It’s been about those people and seeing their success.

Jessy Grossman:
Do you consider yourself more of an extrovert or an introvert?

Saeyoung Cho:
Oh, my God, this is amazing… This is such a great question. I actually always score right in between, I would actually consider myself an ambivert I can I love presenting to clients being in front of a room. But at the end of the day, I find social…, you know, activities draining and I love being by myself and quiet working time. So the pandemic has been very kind to me.

Jessy Grossman:
I love that. I mean, I find that super interesting and I’m looking forward to everyone listening and getting to know you better because it’s interesting, because what I hear you say is like I want to be a great leader and to be a leader means that you’re comfortable with others and all of that. And I can definitely hear that in you and that you know, you absolutely would make a good leader but a good leader is so subjective, right? Because what I my opinion of a great leader is somebody who, who is like yourself who’s humble enough to say like, I don’t know, everything I want, this is a journey for me too. And it’s not just saying, you know, do what I say because I know better but it’s somebody that you could really feel connected to somebody that could inspire you. And inspiration or influence really comes from that sense of connectedness. But as you said, you’re also simultaneously someone who appreciates some quiet time to yourself and being able to focus and and I’m right there with you man like the you know, where I used to love working from home pre pandemic. So now that I’m working from home and being able to focus on my work, like it’s great for people like us. So what does that balance look like for you? Are there days when you struggle with being a leader, or is that a part of you that you’re excited to tap into all the time?

Saeyoung Cho:
You made so many good points in there, Jessy. You’re right when you think about influencers and what makes them influential in so many ways, it’s Yes, it is the aspirational list right from someone to look up to, but it’s also in an equal order that relatability. And I think similarly, as a leader, I personally believe in some radical candor, transparency, I’m not a huge believer in keeping information in silos, I think, you know, if we invite people in, and we share our experiences, and we say, this is what I’m struggling with today, guys, here’s what I’m showing up with, they will also return that. And to me, it’s netted out and resulted in, you know, better work better relationships. So you asked, work life balance, oh, the ultimate…, how do I, you know, how do I struggle? there? Are there days that I struggle with with that leadership piece? Yeah, transparently. Of course, I struggle all the time and thinking about am I spending my time in the right ways, it can be really easy for me to get down into the weeds and want to go through the technical details, instead of staying up above, where I can make the biggest impact. I think also, you know, dealing with people and managing people, while it is the most rewarding part of the job, it is the hardest part of the job, because everyone is so different, everyone has different work styles. Being empathetic and understanding other people’s perspectives is not easy. It takes time. It’s like a muscle that you have to exercise like anything else. And so, you know, that’s something that I’m constantly working on as well. And just making sure I’m being open minded to everything, showing up with kind of that growth, mindset and willingness to change my position.

Jessy Grossman:
I love that you say it’s a muscle? I mean, because it is like, some people may think that like, Oh, well, you’re either empathetic or you’re not. I just think that that’s such a like, closed minded way of thinking about it. It’s like, sure, you’re probably empathetic to like family, you know, when close friends but these are co-workers. And these relationships are unique, and maybe this person has started last week, and you don’t even know them, you know? So I think that’s so insightful to see, it’s something you have to practice just like anything else and get better at and, learn maybe the right questions to ask or, you know, have that experience under your belt to know that there are times when empathy really helps you understand more about that person? What advice would you give to others? Who would love to follow in your footsteps, they want to, you know, they want to be they want to lead a team, perhaps they want to, you know, be successful in influencer marketing. And you have, you know, years under your belt of doing this. What do you… what would you tell someone maybe a little earlier on in their career that maybe you wish you knew?

Saeyoung Cho:
Yeah. My advice would be if you are starting out in your career, pursue feedback, fearlessly run towards your weaknesses, put as much energy into proving and proving yourself as you do your clients and work and be relentless in your pursuit for feedback, talking about muscles, right? networking, as a, the introvert side of me finds that so challenging, but it’s been about finding the right spaces, like when, and even though it’s not natural, to me, that’s all the more reason I have to keep trying keep working at it, and put myself and put myself in those situations. So, you know, that would be one piece of advice I would give to folks, you know, don’t be afraid to ask your managers for feedback every step of the way. And if you’ve been around the block a few times, my advice would also be you know, just to mentor someone take the time to pass it on. It gives you perspective and meaning and it reminds you of how far you’ve come. And we are all you know, I definitely men and women that have contributed to my career and kind of mentorship and believing in me, and taking some extra time with me has made all the difference. And so, you know, I really want to encourage you know, especially women to support others and provide that mentorship, it’s worth it.

Jessy Grossman:
Oh my gosh, it’s so worth it. And for the women who are mentors of WIIM, I mean, we hear feedback on all sides of it, which is how rewarding it is to have access to these women that you look up to and then also on the mentor side, you know to say like oh my gosh, like it was equally I learned so much as well and I it was so rewarding. To give back and it’s to what you were saying earlier, it gives you that feeling of fulfillment and really paying it forward. And, you know, look, we are a heavily female dominated industry. And so I think how incredible it is to really lean into things like mentorship in particular, because historically, women didn’t necessarily support each other as much as they do today. And we still have a long way to go. So I love that you mentioned that because if you’re in a position to be able to do it, or you’re involved in an organization like WIIM or any other organization that has mentorship, it’s just…, it’s an experience unlike any other. And so it’s so cool to hear you say that. I love that so much. We’ve learned so much about your professional journey. And you know, the great work that you’ve done. Besides influencer marketing, what do you like to do for fun? What do you enjoy?

Saeyoung Cho:
I enjoy all things food, the making of it, the eating of it, the growing of it. I just have probably a very abnormal appetite. And I would say, you know, I love this question. In interviews, I always ask folks, if you are an influencer, what would you do? What would be your, your channel, your topic or theme? And my answer is that I would definitely be a mukbang on YouTube, where I could give real talk advice on relationships, career and everything in between while eating a boatload of carbs.

Jessy Grossman:
Wait, that’s hilarious. I love that answer. There’s so much. Wait, do you actually grow and make your own food?

Saeyoung Cho:
Well, I mean, amateur gardening, of course. And this is a very much a pandemic activity. I did not have the time to do this before when I was commuting two hours a day. But it is so satisfying to see and grow your own food. So yes, this has been a new activity that I’ve embarked upon this last year.

Jessy Grossman:
I love it. But like talk about something that you know, the pandemic brought, that was good. So it’s worth, it’s worth mentioning. That’s so cool. And so. So are there others? Are there other accounts, I should say that inspire you in terms of like incredible feeds curated of like delicious food, who do you like to follow in that space?

Saeyoung Cho:
I love following chefs and seeing kind of their life. Obviously, there’s some really exciting and amazing female restaurant owners that I think are inspiring. I’m seeing so much love and support for women, there’s an organization called regarding her right now that’s doing a lot of promotion and support for women who are disproportionately impacted as restaurant owners. And let’s see what other social channels do I love to follow, to be honest, a big new goal for myself this year, which I would encourage for anyone has been to sort of purge my feed of anything that doesn’t make me feel good. So quite frankly, you know, body positivity, encouraging statements, as opposed to kind of, sometimes not to…, you know, of course, I’m a sucker for the funny memes as much as anyone, but I really am trying to infuse my feed with a little bit more positivity, just to keep things that perspective. And so seeing accounts like binominal, or even, you know, those that are on the forefront of the BLM movement, trying to make sure there’s diversity in my feed. That’s been a big focus as well right now.

Jessy Grossman:
I mean, it’s hard though, when you work in this industry, and be it to you know, because you’re like mixing business with pleasure, like you’re on social media all day long for work. So, I totally hear you and not like, your feed isn’t even necessarily your own sometimes because I’m sure you’re following people for work and you’ve done so for years, like you… is there a social channel or a handle on a social channel that you tend to keep a little bit more personal and to your own likes?

Saeyoung Cho:
You know what I totally had this transition where my Instagram became a work feed right and it was just influencer after influencer an influencer, which there’s no problem with that’s fantastic. But it became hard to disconnect, personal from work life, and I never really… back in the day, sort of like why do people have private Instagram? What’s the point if you’re going to be private and I actually totally, through my older age, decided to do the same. I’ve gone private, I’ve curated it to be more personal. I did create kind of a separate account for work because sometimes that’s the best way to keep tabs on what’s going on. It’s just being involved, etc. But yeah, I am. I’m creating kind of separate spaces for myself within channels. And I would say Pinterest is still a very personal place of inspiration, whereas Twitter, LinkedIn, much more industry focused.

Jessy Grossman:
I love that though. That’s so cool to hear. We had someone on the podcast the other day, that was their prediction was that Pinterest is gonna be like, have a glow up this year. And I was like, Oh, that’s so interesting. I don’t really think about Pinterest that often but like, like toy, you’re saying, it can totally be a personal place of your hobbies. Like, if you’re really into food, or whatever, I’m sure you can pin a bunch of stuff to any hobby that you’re into. So Pinterest, that’s a really good suggestion. And oh my gosh, if anyone listening is feeling what you’ve felt, which I know, I felt it, which is like social media can feel a little bit overwhelming when you’re working in social media as well. Like, absolutely make a personal account for yourself and keep it separate, keep it even on private, if you want, I totally have a personal account that’s on private as well. So like respect to that. And, you know, there’s so much to say about like mental health and social media and like us again, like if you work in it, it’s just amplified times a million, you know. And so really curating a feed that makes you feel good and healthy and positive, especially with the climate of, you know 2020-2021, good for you for doing that for yourself. It’s everyone should do that.

Saeyoung Cho:
I would also I don’t know if anyone out there does this, a digital detox or digital Sabbath, for those in our space. The incredible thing that happens when you lock your phone up and put it away for 24 hours, I swear you will have just interesting conversations with those in your household will have a different perspective. I think it’s so cleansing. And, you know, another just great tip for, you know, cultivating that personal space and striving for that work life balance.

Jessy Grossman:
And then there needs to be a work life balance, like look, if it’s it’s a balance, right? So it’s equally for your personal welfare, and also to be the best that you can be in your work. I feel like if you for the detoxes that you’ve done on social media, like are they 24 hours is that a whole weekend’s like, what do you think is realistic? And what have you done personally,

Saeyoung Cho:
Oh, my gosh, I, the idea of a full weekend is a little scary. I think my max is 24 hours, pretty much. But I will turn it off and I will put it in a drawer. If I’m on vacation or something like that, I will do that as well. And you know, I usually give my family a heads up or something Hey, like I’m going off the grid for 24 hours. And that’s probably my personal limit on that. But for those that are doing it for the full weekend, I want to hear tips. I want to know how and if it makes a big difference.

Jessy Grossman:
Yeah, well, I love that you’re real about that because 24 hours is a lot even to it. Yes, I you know, look every week how Apple now gives you your screen time estimates. It’s not even estimate it’s like actual your screen time, on your phone. I mean, the amount of hours that it’s telling me on a week to week basis where it’s like six, seven hours. I’m just like, Oh, that’s a lot. That’s a lot. How is that even possible? But you know, so just be like, just to be mindful of it. But like, don’t put so much pressure on yourself like don’t say like, Alright, I’m gonna go a whole weekend and like start from zero to hundred. You know, start with start with an afternoon. Build from there. Right, like, Well, yeah. Look, it’s been such a pleasure having you on today. We ask this of everyone who comes on. What do you wish someone had told your younger self that would have given you a professional or a personal advantage today?

Saeyoung Cho:
Embrace mistakes, they don’t define you. And in fact, they are a really good barometer to ensure you’re in a growth environment where you’re challenged and growing. That take the time to develop relationships up, down and side to side. Never just focus on one direction. It is absolutely worth it.

Jessy Grossman:
That’s we’re gonna just like leave it there. That’s huge. I love that so much. I have a feeling that everyone listening is absolutely gonna want to find you and reach out and learn more whether it’s a chat about social media, or recipes, or gardens. So what’s the best way for our listeners to reach out?

Saeyoung Cho:
You can absolutely follow me on LinkedIn. I’m under Saeyoung Cho
or you can follow me on Twitter as well.

Jessy Grossman:
Amazing, Sae it’s been such a pleasure having you on we’re super grateful that you took the time to chat with us. And thank you for being such an incredible member of WIIM.

Saeyoung Cho:
Thank you, Jessy for inviting me and holding this safe space and forum. I’m absolutely a leader in kind of helping inspire other women from for more mentorship. So thank you.