Things Brands Wish We Could Tell Creators

[00:00:00] Steph Martin: It is the worst feeling to get a piece of lackluster content from a creator. Like, that’s the kind of stuff that crushes my soul. This creator has so many amazing other videos on their channel and for whatever reason they got stuck on the brief or even worse, they thought that’s what the brand wanted.

They thought the brand wanted this very boring, very unenthusiastic piece of content where you’re just reading from a script about a product and it just doesn’t match with the channel.

[00:00:33] Jessy: Hey guys, welcome back. I hope you guys are having a great month so far, and a great start to the year. This is Jessy Grossman, by the way, founder of WIIM, Women Influencer Marketing, the Best online community for women who are obsessed with influencer marketing. So we are continuing our awesome guest host series for you today.

We’ve got a [00:01:00] wonderful episode for you to enjoy while I’m off. On maternity leave. So you’re going to be hearing less from me, and more from our community members. We’ve got a lot of them who’ve all recorded episodes for you guys. If you’re enjoying the series, please let us know. Or if you have other ideas for how we can improve this podcast and continue to make it great.

I mean, we’ve been doing this since 2018. So I think it’s always just important to like, I don’t know, like. Keep up and reimagine and just, I don’t know, experiment and play around. So that’s what we’re doing. , I’ve been enjoying these episodes. I’ve been sitting back and listening to all these guest hosts and being like, dang, that was good.

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[00:03:23] Steph Martin: Today’s episode. I am excited about this, I have been working in the creator space for the last decade, and this is information and knowledge.

I’ve always wanted to share. And I couldn’t think of a better person to share it with than my friend, Lauren Gable, who’s joining me on the show today. My name is Steph Morgan. I’m an influencer and brand partnerships expert with over a decade of experience leading influencer programs for brands like Sephora, Walmart, CoverGirl, JCPenney, Him and Hers, and many, many more.

At one point, I worked at a wonderful agency called Style Home. This is [00:04:00] where I met Lauren Gable, who’s doing the show with me today. Lauren Gable and I have seen some things over the last few years, and worked on many amazing partnerships together, including a cross-country tour for a major beauty brand that had us move to different cities across the country for a summer, taking beauty creators to different Sephoras for meet and greets.

At one point, even had to pay off an Uber driver to get an influencer’s phone back after they left it before an event, but that is a story for another day. Lauren’s super excited to be here with you today and really excited to just have a good conversation about how we can, you know, spill kind of the secrets of what brands think in the influencer space, our advice to creators.

And just how we can make it a more transparent, I think, industry overall. 

[00:04:49] Lauren Gabel: Awesome. No, I’m so excited to be here. I’ve been listening to the podcast for so long, so it’s fun to finally be involved. 

[00:04:56] Steph Martin: Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us. Do you want to share a little bit just [00:05:00] about your background before we jump into the 

[00:05:03] Lauren Gabel: good stuff?

Yeah, for sure. So I started as a USC film student. I kind of like adding that bit just because I think that it’s, it kind of ties into coming from a storytelling background and really like, you know, I’m, That’s one of the elements I’ve always loved the most about this line of work is the storytelling element.

And then I spent the first seven years of my career at a big digital media company called Defy Media. And I was focused on, like, producing premium production at that point. It was a lot of, like, producing short-form content for brands, whether it’s like A digital ad or, you know, we would kind of come in and help brands create a bunch of series for like their YouTube channel.

And we were kind of really primarily positioned to start to work with influencers when those brands were like, Hey, you know, maybe we should be working with influencers. And so, and kind of back then it was the format looked a little different. We would sometimes shoot the content for the influencers and then provide it to them to put on their channels.

Things have [00:06:00] evolved more to the format we see today, which is the. Talent goes off and shoots their content on their own. And yeah, so I mean, at that stage, it was probably like I was doing 75 percent production work and then maybe like 25 percent influencer work. Uh, but then I moved to style hall where I met you, Steph, and I was on the campaigns team, so I kind of, you know, kind of like fully into the influencer marketing side of things and was doing everything from, you know.

Helping with like strategy and pitching to actually carrying out campaigns when we sold through, you know, working with agents and managers to lock in talent, going through the briefing process, receiving content, doing notes back and forth with the client and, you know, everything through like final reporting.

So, you know, got to see campaigns from like, start to finish. And while I was there, I started working with Sephora and I kind of. Went full force into the Sephora and that, you know, was my life [00:07:00] kind of for about the final year I was at Style Hall and then the company went under in 2019 as you and Sephora were like, you know, start a company and we’ll hire you to just keep doing what you’ve been doing, running their influencer ambassador program and their, you know, various influencer initiatives throughout the year that You know, they would sometimes bring on like a hundred micro creators to support an important launch and stuff like that.

And then we also had our ambassadors that would create year-long programming across the year that we, you know, would develop long-term relationships with. And we also would do like, there was an event component to this. We would. Take the talent, like you said, to different Sephora stores across the country to do meetups.

We did a group trip to Munich, Germany. We took them to a factory where the product was made and that was a really cool experience for them to get to see the kind of behind-the-scenes element of what goes [00:08:00] into making products. Uh, so yeah, we, uh, we had a really full, wonderful program in total. I worked with them for six years.

Yeah, it was fabulous. You know, just the most wonderful to work with a group of people, both on the talent side and the client themselves are just, you know, wonderful. And I’m so grateful to them for giving me such a great opportunity to start my business and go freelance. And that’s kind of where I have been today and You know, I worked with other brands, like I did like a year-long ambassador program for Aperol and Long Branch Bourbon.

I got to help put together an influencer marketing program for a new emergency contraception brand called Julie. That was like really fun and, you know, something different for me. And I’ve done a number of like kind of freelance gigs at big agencies. So I’ve gotten to work with, you know, big brands like Geico and Aveeno and Acura, Mini Cooper.

You know. As well as doing some smaller things like brand direct, [00:09:00] as I work with a kind of small freeze-dried fruit brand called Crispy Green. So yeah, it’s been kind of like all over the map, big and small brands, both brand direct, through agencies. And I just feel grateful that I’ve gotten to experience, you know, being on so many different sides and perspectives of like, you know, influencer marketing and the creator economy.

[00:09:20] Steph Martin: Absolutely. You know, we’ve seen it all, right? We’ve worked with thousands, I would say, between the two of us, definitely thousands of creators in our career, probably, you know, 50 to 100 brands combined between both of us, maybe not 100, that’s probably exaggerating, but certainly plenty of brands in this age, 

[00:09:37] Lauren Gabel: I 

[00:09:38] Steph Martin: mean, small brands, big brands, like we did a lot of campaigns, you know, I worked in-house at brands, For the last, I don’t know, since I left style hall.

So the last seven or eight years, it feels like, and you’ve worked both directly with brands and. With brands through the agency side. And then of course we both work directly with talent and agents and managers. So have a lot of good perspectives. And I think [00:10:00] today’s conversation is really about how do we bring transparency to the industry.

What are the things as folks on the brand side that we wish we could tell creators, I think every person who’s ever been on the brand side has had a moment where they open the email and they’re like, I wish I could call this creator and tell them this, or. You know, they have a situation, they’re like, I wish I could just tell them this one thing.

So that’s really what today is about, is sharing that knowledge and giving us a forum to do it. I think for folks listening, if you’re wondering, well, why don’t you just call the creator up? Or why don’t you just call the manager up? There are a lot of reasons. Like, sometimes we can’t. Sometimes we are only connected to the manager and we wish we could tell the creator something.

Sometimes it’s just not our job to. Sometimes it’s not professional or not conducive to the current situation. Sometimes we do. There are often when we do share this direct feedback, but it’s not always, in a public forum like this, where everybody gets to listen, right? It might be a one-off conversation with a creator.

So I’m excited to get into it. Lauren, let’s start with a big topic. And I’m sure you get [00:11:00] asked about this. I get asked this question all the time. When I meet with creators for lunch or coffee, what do brands think of managers? 

[00:11:08] Lauren Gabel: I mean, they can be your biggest ally or you know, there’s a few that can make your life really challenging and you know, I, I feel like most, there’s only a few probably people that I’ve kind of come across that have, you know, I’ve turned around and been like, okay, I can never work with that person again, you know, generally speaking, I think that managers can be really helpful.

I think they can, You know, sometimes you’re working with creators who haven’t been in professional environments before, and they can kind of come in and add that level of professionalism, like, you know, helping the talent to understand deadlines and, you know, make sense of the brief and the deliverables and kind of like do a little bit of the hand holding.

Never mind hand-holding if a creator doesn’t have a manager. Like I, you know, want to kind of help them and take them under my wing. And, but yeah, I would say like, you know, [00:12:00] Managers who, you know, managers should be trying to get you more money. It’s always fine to like ask and try, but also like, you know, I think that sometimes, and I, you know, we’ve talked about this a little bit sometimes.

You can run into situations where managers almost limit their clients in some ways by, you know, not being a little bit more flexible or willing to, or, or just, you know, just kind of looking for places to figure out how to make a deal possible, you know, like sometimes you have to get a little creative with what you’re trying to do to make it work for everybody, but you End up working with people who, you know, you can tell are collaborative and want to figure it out.

And then you sometimes work with people who just shut the door. And sometimes that’s a real bummer for the talent. And, you know, you wish you could tell them that their agent just got, you know, got them to lose, lose, lose out on a pretty cool deal, an opportunity. So, yeah, I would say, you know, managers can be wonderful.

And just make sure you’re working with the right one. Who’s really gonna Um, be [00:13:00] collaborative and you know, show up for you in the best light and which also puts you in the best light. 

[00:13:05] Steph Martin: Yeah. Absolutely. I could not agree more. Sometimes managers make our lives easier as folks on the brand side, right? There are managers who I love working with and I’m excited when I get to call a talent that’s managed by this certain manager, I’m like, yes, this is going to be a great campaign.

Because these managers, right, know how to keep our campaigns on track. They can make sure our programs are organized. They can help ensure the deal is just like professional and well done, meets the client or the brand’s expectations, makes sure talent is happy, and has an understanding of everything before we go to film.

So there are times when, and certain managers that I love working with and I’m excited to work with, and I would encourage the right people to explore their options. If you’re somebody who’s just starting, maybe you don’t quite need a manager yet because that manager does take a percentage rate of your fee, but they can also help you get more business.

So it’s something to think about. They can also help you grow your business and help you become more successful. That’s [00:14:00] a question I get a lot from influencers. It’s like, do I need a manager? And my answer is always, it depends, right? And if you do choose to work with management, my advice as somebody on the brand side is just to make sure you know who you’re working with.

Like, know how this person interacts with brands, not just with you. Like, know how they respond to brand inquiries or, you know, opportunities for you. Just know who they are. Because as somebody on the brand side, If your manager is the only one emailing me, that manager is representing you. I don’t know you as a creator and how you email brands.

I only know your manager. And I hate to say this, because again, there are managers that I love working with, but there are some managers who are also not great, who are bad actors out there, right? And if you’re, if I’m the brand, and I’m trying to approach you for a campaign, and your manager is rude, unresponsive, disorganized, or Lauren, as you said, just like generally unreasonable or unwilling to work together.

Yeah. Like. If you’re a creator listening to this, that could cost you not only a [00:15:00] deal, but it could get you blacklisted. Like there are some, you know, some folks who I won’t work with again, just because, of bad behavior or not professional behavior. And I think a really good example of that is what happened to me the other day.

Right. I had a budget. I’m just making these numbers up for this conversation, but let’s say I knew that I had a budget of 10, 000, right, and I knew that I had to fit, you know, a couple of creators in, but I think, based on my total budget, let’s say the total budget was 20, 000, I thought I could roughly pay this creator about 10, 000, but I wasn’t sure, because I hadn’t launched in a second creator, I needed to get like two for 20, 000 roughly.

So I go out, I make this creator an offer. Again, I’m just making these numbers up. Let’s say I offered this creator 9, 000 to start. Knowing that, okay, maybe we’re going to have a little bit of wiggle room. I think I roughly need to land around 10 to make this work because I still have to book a second creator.

And this manager comes back and says, hey, her rate Is 10, 500, right? This person is 10, [00:16:00] 500. Okay, great. We’re not that far off, right? I think I offered her 9, 000. The manager comes back with 10, 500. I know roughly I’m trying to land around 10, 000. We should be able to make a deal here, right? We’re, we’re not that far off.

So I asked the manager, hey, can we meet in the middle? Maybe we can meet at, you know, 9, 500 or 10, 000 even, right? Right on target. And this manager says, nope. I do not negotiate. We’re not negotiating. That is a rate, with no flexibility. That’s highly unusual and not a great way to build a relationship with our brand.

And in this case, right, I had to walk away. And unfortunately, that manager lost their talent deal. And that talent lost, lost out on making 10, 000 and working with a brand that they might have been excited about. I don’t even know if the manager presented the offer to the talent because they just said, This is, this is the firm price.

Like, I don’t know, let, let the talent decide if that’s something that they’re interested in. Obviously. The manager knows how to run their business. That’s, you know, their choice, but I wish that they would have even brought that to talent before shutting it [00:17:00] down. At the end of the day, we were only 500 apart on a 10, 000 deal.

And this creator didn’t get a chance to even consider working with this brand because the manager didn’t want to be flexible with me. As somebody on the brand side, I think it’s like, you know, working with a manager or a creator is like dating everyone should be or like interviewing for a job, right?

Everybody should be on their best behavior in the beginning. And I always think about this, right? Your first date should be great or your interview with your company should be great. And typically it doesn’t necessarily get better if you have like a really bad interview and you get a weird vibe from a job and you decide to work there.

Your gut is probably right. You know, if you go on a couple of bad first dates with somebody, or a bad first date, bad second date, bad third date, why are you going to keep dating them? Like, it’s not going to get better, it’s going to get worse. And that’s my philosophy in working with creators and management, right?

If you seem inflexible, difficult, or rude, I know this is going to be a tough time for me. Even if we do [00:18:00] work out a deal, it’s going to be tough, and it’s going to be like pulling teeth the entire time. So, I would say, like, sometimes, if, from the very first conversation, the manager’s not willing to be flexible, that impacts the talent.

And Lauren, I know you’re nodding, and you have so much to say, but Yeah, I’m trying to sew not. 

[00:18:17] Lauren Gabel: to cut you off. Yes, go, go, take it away. I mean, I agree with everything you’re saying. I, yeah, if you, I think you have to trust your gut. You know, when you’re approaching a campaign and a potential deal, you know, if you’re getting a You know, something is just feeling off or, you know, you can tell this person is not going to be, you know, collaborative and good to work with.

Like, that’s always like, you know, a little bit of a red flag from the start with, you know, and this applies to talent too, you know, not just managers, but yeah, I, sorry. 

[00:18:51] Steph Martin: It’s tough. It’s tough, right? You, you know, you’re kind of sussing out the situation from the beginning of Is this going to be a good person to work with?

[00:19:00] And I think that’s always my advice to creators is when I say no, how your manager or agent or representation is going to represent you, that’s why. Because sometimes our experience is vastly different. Like in that situation I just shared, we don’t even know if that opportunity was ever shared with talent and we were so close to making a deal and I can’t imagine that any creator Wouldn’t want to evaluate an opportunity that was right in the ballpark of their rate, right?

It’s not like this. We offered 1, 000. This person’s rate was 10, 500. We were so close to losing something. 

[00:19:35] Lauren Gabel: So, so close. I would also like, I would recommend that you know, if you are working with a manager like Um, you know, maybe be transparent that you want to, you want to hear any offers like that come through and you get to be the, the judge of where you kind of want to draw the line.

Um, because yeah, I think it is a bummer when you [00:20:00] feel like, you know, you reach out and a manager kind of quickly shoot something down and you know, maybe you aren’t that far off and you know, at the end of the day, like you also like don’t. You know, this could be a brand that, you know, could be a particular interest to this influencer.

Maybe they just moved and it’s a furniture company. And even though the offer is a little bit low, maybe they would love like, you know, a couple thousand dollars for the free product, you know? So there’s always going to be like, you know, situations like that, that, you know, are worth considering, but yeah, I think that just being transparent with your manager that like, you know, you want to hear all the offers and, you know.

Kind of figuring out what your, you know, what your working relationship is like with them in a way that you don’t end up accidentally missing out on something. Yeah, 100%. 

[00:20:45] Steph Martin: And Lauren, you shared with me a story about a situation where you were trying to pay a creator and you couldn’t 

[00:20:51] Lauren Gabel: process payment.

Nine months of chasing a manager, begging a manager to send me an invoice. [00:21:00] And I just could not get a response out of this person and it was even a talent that like the client like really wanted to continue a relationship and, you know, continue working with, but I just had to be like, I am so sorry. Like the manager is so unresponsive.

Like, I’m afraid that we’re not going to be able to get, you know, the deliverables done. And, you know, yeah, it’s and it’s such a bummer. And we actually did end up having to kind of reach out to the talent directly because the manager was so unresponsive. And I, I know that this person wasn’t happy about that, but we were kind of like, you know, it was like a last resort sort of situation.

[00:21:38] Steph Martin: Yep. Yep. Absolutely. I think, you know, there are fantastic managers out there who are great, but I would say if you’re a creator and you’re listening to this, ask those questions, have those conversations. The other one that comes to mind is about edits, right? Are you okay with the edits? I would say, please encourage your management to be flexible with edits.

We’re reasonable, right? I think [00:22:00] reasonable is the key because of course, if you’re asking for excessive edits or edits that weren’t listed in the brief or other things, That’s one thing. But I think sometimes we’re coming asking for a required edit, especially if it’s a compliance or regulatory issue, or maybe they mispronounce the name of something where the key is.

Those things we try to be reasonable. But sometimes if Your manager, you know, doesn’t want to offer the options for edits. It can leave a bad taste in the mouth of the brand, because we’re like, Hey, this is supposed to be a partnership. We’re asking for something we think is reasonable.

The person isn’t making the edits. And again, we don’t even know, I would say great managers. We never doubt, but for some of the not-so-great ones, we don’t even know if these edits have been asked of the talent or not. 

[00:22:47] Lauren Gabel: Yeah, I would say that. And I understand why managers, you know, might try to like. Add into the agreement, like, you know, try to eliminate edits and I know they’re just trying to protect [00:23:00] their clients from unreasonable edits and that’s you know, I get that like if if you know the client asked for a pink pony and You know, you give them a pink pony, but then they turn around and in the notes they say, you know what?

Give me a blue pony like Yes, that is the sort of thing you push back on, but then there’s like, yeah, like, you know, like they said, they said the product name wrong, like, you know, and like, also like they’re, you know, different clients operate differently. There are, you know, sometimes we work with brands and clients that, you know, are a little bit more challenging perhaps.

And we know the things that, you know, Really, like really might get them, they might very, very hang up on like certain things like, you know, maybe like you, you say the product name wrong and sometimes it is better for you if, you know, we say, Hey, you know what? You said the product name wrong. It would probably be best if you update this before we send it to the client because I just know they’re going to get so hung up on that, that they’re going to be nitpicky and like going to shoot down the whole [00:24:00] thing.

And so it’s better for you and it’s going to present you in a better light. And, you know, at the end of the day, we just like, you know, we’re voting for you. We’re on your team. Like, you know, when we do come with, you know, an edit request like this, there’s usually like, you know, a reason behind it.

But yeah, I would say like. Like you said, just, just make sure your manager knows that you’re open to edits, you know, reasonable edits. 

[00:24:26] Steph Martin: Yep. Well, on that note, I want to shift gears to talk about something that I think is so important for creators and agents to understand. And it’s in the same vein as this discussion.

It is reputation. For me, your reputation. Is everything right? If you are somebody who I know that I can depend on, you are responsible. You are transparent. You clearly understand that this is a partnership and also, you know, a business deal, right? Um, I will work with you again and [00:25:00] again, especially if you’re friendly, you’re polite again, you’re on time, you do the job that we’re asking you to do.

Great. I will call you up for every campaign. And the other thing that I think is important for creators to remember is that even if I work at a brand that you don’t love today, right? I might work at a brand that you have no interest in partnering with today. Especially if I’m on the agency side, but brand side too, people change jobs all the time.

A year from now, I could work at your favorite brand ever. And if you sent me a mean email, and you cussed me out because I tried to just send you a campaign opportunity, or, you know, you did something like you screenshotted my email and you posted it on your stories and said, I can’t believe this type of brand is asking me to work with them.

I will remember that, and I think we all will remember that. Yes. And it’s going to impact your future opportunities. So, it goes both ways, right? Like, if you’re somebody who’s known for doing a great job, is known for being on time, is known for being polite and friendly, and is just a joy to work with, I will call you up over and over and over again with [00:26:00] endless opportunities.

Even better! I may recommend you to other brands. I might, you know, know somebody else on the brand side and say, Hey, I heard you’re looking for talent. This person is fantastic. Like I’ve always had a good experience working with them, you know, definitely work with them and try to re-engage them. And if you’re somebody who, you know, wasn’t behaving appropriately or wasn’t behaving well, you know, we’ll remember that too.

And. And just, you know, be on your best behavior, be, always be friendly, be professional. Even if something isn’t for you, like you don’t want to work on something, just respond and say, Hey, this isn’t a right fit for me right now. I really appreciate you thinking of me. It will go so far, but reputation is everything.

We always remember the creators who have high-quality content and we always remember the ones on the other side too. 

[00:26:45] Lauren Gabel: A hundred percent. I like. Cannot tell you that it is so much better for us to be able to work with, you know, people that we, we know how they work. We know that they’re going to turn in their content on time.

We [00:27:00] know it’s going to be high quality. We know that they’re going to produce the concept that they told us they were going to produce, which is important to you. And, you know, there comes a day like in anyone’s, you know, Uh, life where, you know, working at influencer marketing, we have a, you know, a project that has a really fast turnaround and we need to find somebody who, you know, we can just rely on a thousand percent and we’re not going to worry that, uh, Oh, they might not get it.

You know, the deliverables in on time, you know, we just need. To make sure that we’re going to hand that project and opportunity over to someone who is going to knock it out of the park and you want to be that you want to be the creator that we call in like those moments you want to be the creator that you know is the most reliable and solid who is going to be You know, the person that we call up in those kind of like moments.

And also like, those are the moments that sometimes have a little bit of extra money because of the fast turnaround. And, you know, so it’s, it benefits everybody at the end of the day, like this is a relationship business, right? Like, and you want to make sure [00:28:00] that, you know, people when they see your name pop up on like a talent list like they’re excited because they know that you’re really good to work with and they know you’re going to produce like top quality work.

[00:28:11] Steph Martin: Absolutely. I would say another part of that, right, is just being transparent. You know, my next piece of advice for creators is just really around, don’t be afraid to ask questions. Like, let’s have those conversations, and ask questions. The person you’re emailing on the other side of your email is a real person, right?

It’s me, it’s Lauren, it’s somebody else. There is somebody at some point, even if you’re doing it through a system or a platform. Somebody along the way has to read your messages because how else are you going to get this campaign done? So don’t be afraid to ask questions I wish I could tell creators this because sometimes they’ve already filmed something and I find out after they’ve got a question Like why didn’t you just ask before?

And I would also say like Make sure you know what you’re signing up for. Don’t be afraid to ask a question about how the product works. What’s expected of me? What type of video are you expecting me to produce? How [00:29:00] long? How to pronounce the product’s name. Yes. Yes, absolutely. Or a brand name. A brand name or a color name.

Lauren, I remember one time We did, I don’t know if you remember this, but it was a long time ago, we were doing a campaign for a lipstick, I believe, or some sort of a lip product, and the color was, I think, Framboise, it was a French name, and people were saying Fram bra. Oh my god. We were like, we wish that we could just tell you how to pronounce it.

And I don’t even know if I’m pronouncing it correctly, this memory, but it happens more commonly than you think it happens all the time. And I would say, if you’re a creator, ask those questions. How do I pronounce this? What are you, what are you looking for? Also, ask what the goals are. If they’re not stated somewhere, real professionals try to always share the goals when they can.

But every brand operates differently. Every brief looks different. Ask what the brand is trying to achieve, please. And then do your best to hit that. If the brand is trying to drive. Sales are like, Hey, we just launched this new product. We’re looking for [00:30:00] influencers to help us drive awareness in sales.

Try to create content that’s going to help them sell this product. That’s how they’re measuring you. Ask them what success looks like. Hey, how are you measuring success? Are they measuring it on product sales? Great. You know that if you want them to reengage with you. You need to drive sales on this product, you know, ask what they’re looking for.

If they’re looking for engagement, let’s say they’re like, Oh, the goal is awareness. Ask them what that means. Are you looking for video views? Are you looking for high-engagement content? Like ask those questions and have the conversation so that you can be well prepared to hit those goals. And I would say.

99 percent of the time, people will be responsive and tell you whatever information they can. Sometimes they can’t tell you everything, but ask questions that are important to you before you go to film, because we would way rather, I would way rather hop on a phone call, have a discussion, and answer questions via email, than get a video back that doesn’t match the brief, you know, has challenges with it, or isn’t set up to actually meet the brand’s goals.

[00:30:58] Lauren Gabel: Yeah, and I think I said this before, but [00:31:00] just to reiterate. I never have a problem hand holding, you know, like, like you said, ask those questions like, you know, I always make sure people have like my cell phone number in case like, you know, something comes up over the weekend when they’re, you know, trying to film like you can text me anytime.

And yeah, we would just rather get out in front of in front of those things. 

[00:31:20] Steph Martin: It also shows they care about the partnership, right? If somebody, to me, a creator is taking the time to ask me, what are the goals of the campaign? What are you looking to get out of it? I read that email and I thought, wow, this person cares about the success of the partnership.

They want to make sure that the brand is happy, they’re happy, and that everyone knows what’s expected of them. I think that’s great. For me, that’s like, green flag, green flag! 

[00:31:43] Lauren Gabel: Yeah, and it can also help you kind of assess if this, you know, Campaign is right for you too. Because, you know, if the brand says, you know, we want to drive X number of clicks and you know that maybe that’s not where you’re, you’re a strong suit, you know, you can know [00:32:00] now, so, you know.

You can make sure that, like, you don’t enter into campaigns that you feel like you maybe can’t be successful in. 

[00:32:06] Steph Martin: Yep. Lauren, this next piece of advice I think is from, is from you and some of the discussions that we’ve had as well. But don’t be afraid to think outside of the box. I would say this goes hand in hand with asking questions.

Ask questions so you can tailor your content appropriately, but don’t get a brief and think, Hey. This is the only way for me to do it, or I have to make this a really boring review. Like, come with good ideas. Like, you were selected because the brand loves something about your content. You can even ask that question, right?

Hey, why was I selected for this campaign? Or, you know, what type of con is there any content that I’ve made previously that you think could inspire this video? Ask those questions, but don’t be afraid to think outside of the box. Just because you received a brief, Doesn’t mean the content has to be boring or monotone.

And in fact, yes, some brands want you to follow the exact format they laid out in the brief. Some brands would love for you to give it your own spin, would love for you to say, I have this really amazing idea of how I can [00:33:00] incorporate your talking points. So tell us how you feel about creators who think outside of the box.

I 

[00:33:05] Lauren Gabel: mean, I love it. And I know that like, you know, sometimes you work with brands that like you said, just want to, they want to play it safe. They want to stick to, you know, within like a certain sandbox. But then you have brands who like, do want to be innovative and try things. And you’re never going to know unless you ask.

So, you know, to the earlier point, always ask. But I think that like, you know, brands love it when you come to them with a, you know, big idea. And, you know, sometimes they might not be able to get it. All the stakeholders involved are on board with it, but I think that people always appreciate, you know, the initiative and showing passion for their brand and a campaign and the video that you’re about to produce like sometimes I’ve had videos get turned in that, you know, might feel kind of lackluster compared to their organic content.

And I can’t tell you how kind of disappointing that can be. Um, You know, for a brand to kind of see that, and they’re looking at [00:34:00] the video they just paid a lot of money for, um, and then, you know, the other content that’s like, all on your channel, and, you know, they’re just feeling like the two aren’t very equivalent, and, you know, that, that can be tough, um, so, you know, when it does feel like you are going above and beyond and putting a lot of thought and effort into this partnership, that, you know, really goes a long way, and like we said, like, you know, we might not always be able to do the big idea, but I think that, like, It never hurts to share it.

And, you know, you can always come with a, you know, backup idea that might be a little bit, you know, more in line with the brief. But yeah, I think sharing those ideas is a wonderful thing. Absolutely. 

[00:34:42] Steph Martin: Yeah. 

[00:34:42] Lauren Gabel: I 

[00:34:42] Steph Martin: think you can say, like, you can send ideas, too. You can say, hey, here’s what I, how, here’s how I interpreted the brief.

Here’s concept one. Here’s concept two that’s totally out of the box. I know you asked for concept one. I’m sending you this just as a FYI. That’s also great. It shows, hey, I followed the brief, I read it, but I also have another idea. So [00:35:00] again, never hurts to ask, throw it out there, send big ideas. Maybe we can activate that idea today, but we might have a campaign two months from now and say, Hey, I remember that creator pitched me this awesome idea that fits perfectly with what we’re, with what we’re trying to do for the holiday, right?

And then we can come back and think about it or even better build a program. Around your idea never hurts to have the conversation. And I would also say like, you know, when it comes to thinking outside of the box for content, Lauren, I could not agree with you more. It is the worst feeling to get a piece of lackluster content from a creator.

Like that’s the kind of stuff that crushes my soul that this creator has so many amazing other videos on their channel. And then. For whatever reason, they got stuck on the brief or even worse. They thought that’s what the brand wanted. They thought the brand wanted this very boring, very unenthusiastic piece of content where you’re just reading from a script about a product and it just doesn’t match with the channel.

And like, it is soul-crushing as somebody on the brand. Cause you’re like, I want this amazing content. We picked this creator cause they made amazing [00:36:00] content and they sent us this video. And on paper, yes, it hit the talking points, but in execution, it just doesn’t have the passion. It’s flat. Yeah, it’s flat.

And that’s the worst feeling too. So I would say like, you know, make sure if you are, even if you are following the brief, try to make an engaging video. Try to make it as similar as you can to other types of content on your channel. Because most brands, when they’re looking for people to partner, are looking at your content and they’re saying, Hey, I like the type of videos this person makes.

That’s why I’m picking them. So don’t serve that. It’s a separate video that doesn’t look anything like everything else that you’ve made, right? Because we love the content you’re already making. That’s why we want to work with you. 

[00:36:42] Lauren Gabel: Yeah, and also just kind of adding on to that, like, I think that like sometimes, you know, as a creator you might receive a brief with a list of talking points and it can be easy to kind of fall into the trap of just, you know, kind of reading the talking points off verbatim.

But, you know, I super, super [00:37:00] encourage you not to do that. Like as much as possible, like always put the talking points in your own words, like, or better yet, like just talk organically, like, you know, from the heart about what you love about the product. And I feel like that can never really go wrong. I’d also say that like.

You know, another thing you can do is like, think about how you can communicate the messaging points in the brief visually, you know, without even using words, you know, how can you bring like that messaging to life because that can be something, you know, a fun way to explore and approach messaging points that, you know, might feel a little bit fewer ads like, 

[00:37:35] Steph Martin: yep.

Definitely. I want to move on to another piece of advice that I would love to share with creators. And this is something that I think about all of the time. And at the end of the day, like, I would love for creators to remember that this partnership is a partnership, but it is also a business deal.

Like, quite literally, this is my job. I show up to work every day to do this. Lauren shows up every day to work to do this. [00:38:00] Job and we are professionals and we will love and appreciate when creators are professionals in return. So what do I mean by that? You know, keep on top of things, be organized, and try your best to hit the deadlines.

Things happen, right? If you, you know, are in a place that was hit by a crazy natural disaster or a storm, if you had a family emergency, if your kid is sick, things happen, but try your best to adhere to the deadlines and if something does happen. Communicate about that too, right? Give us a heads-up in advance.

Hey, I’m going through this thing. I need a few days on video. So sorry. Guess what? If you were on time with every other step of the process, like if you turned in your script on time, if you, you know, sent me your first draft on time, and now you’re supposed to owe me edits, and something happened, if you were on time with everything else, I’m not even going to think twice about it.

Or I might say, okay, thanks for letting me know. Let’s revisit, you know, let’s revisit your timeline. So continue to just operate in a professional sense. I think that’s extremely important and will take you farther [00:39:00] than you realize. I would also say, like I said, this is our job, right? Remember that the person on the other side of the email or the phone call, um, Is just trying to do their job.

This person is showing up to work to do their job. Their job is to work through these partnerships. Their job is to meet their brand goals, and their marketing goals. So again, be respectful and know that if there is a question, it’s, you know, it’s not necessarily a personal attack, it’s not because we don’t want to do something sometimes it is because there’s somebody else who says we have to, or there’s something else that you don’t know about.

Right. So just know that there’s a person on the other side doing their very best. To do their job. And I think the last thing is going back to, this is a, this is a business deal, right? Results matter. A brand isn’t just working with you because they think you’re great. Yes, they do think you’re great.

That’s amazing. But they also are expecting a result, right? They’re expecting that you’re going to help drive awareness for their new product. They’re expecting that you’re going to drive sales. They are expecting that you’re going to make a great video. [00:40:00] They are expecting something out of it is ultimately, you know, a business deal.

And an investment for them. That’s the other thing working with a creator is an investment for them. They are spending money. Brands are spending money on creators as an investment to help them meet whatever their business goals are. So keep that in mind, too, that, you know, they’re looking to really see those results.

And it goes back to earlier in the conversation. So it’s important for you to know, What are they looking at as a result? Do they care about views? Do they care about clicks? Do they care about engagement? Do they care about something else? But yeah, it is a business deal, and you know, we are operating as professionals, and the more that you can help us in our jobs, you know, do what we need to do, the better it is.

[00:40:41] Lauren Gabel: Yeah, and like, you know, listen, like, you can’t always control everything that’s going to happen, right? Like, you know, sometimes the algorithm could just not be working in your favor, you know? Or, you know, Like you said there could be a natural disaster and you lost power and you couldn’t work on your video You know, there’s always gonna be things like that that [00:41:00] you know can happen in a campaign But you just always want to make sure that you are you know On top of and the things that you can control, you know, their content quality, like how you communicate when you know, you hit delays, you know, having good communication is just so, so, so important.

You know, if something doesn’t perform, like, you know, is there a way? Can you share that real to like your story? Could you maybe do some additive You stories, you know, like, I think that when we see the talent that, you know, maybe a piece of content didn’t pop for whatever reason, but we see that they’re trying to, you know, show the brand some extra love that goes such a long way, you know, and a story frame?

You know, it doesn’t have to be a ton of effort. It can be very simple, but that is something that, you know, brands 1000 percent notice and recognize. And I feel like, you know, that plays into, you know, as they’re determining who they’re going to partner with the next time or who they want to have [00:42:00] long-term partnerships with, you know, this really does help you stand out.

[00:42:04] Steph Martin: And I love to see that. You know what else I love to see? Please don’t do this with embargoed products. Please don’t do this with unreleased products. But I do always love that even before a campaign goes live, when a creator is genuinely passionate about the brand, and does a story, right? Like, let’s say I’m just making this up, but let’s say that we sent them a pan for their kitchen, and they’re, they’re supposed to make a video that’s going to go live, like, maybe they’ve already filmed the video, the video is not going live for another two weeks, but they start posting stories of them, you know, cooking with their new pan in their kitchen before they even video, the video goes up because they love it to me, I’m like, great, this person genuinely loves the products, we made the right call with this partnership, they’re working on their video, it just shows that extra mile of enthusiasm, so yes, to make goods, especially if something Isn’t performing or going the way you wanted to, or, you know, you had some external factor that impacts the campaign, but if you love the product, like also show that go above and beyond, you know, send an extra [00:43:00] photo in post an extra story about how you’re just at home, genuinely loving the product.

You don’t have to make it sponsored with all the talking points, just post that extra story and tag the brand because it shows. You’re excited. And I think that really helps us understand who cares about this product and who would want to go the extra mile and maybe who’s just here to follow the brief and check out and be done.

[00:43:22] Lauren Gabel: I would also say like, you know. We’re busy. We don’t necessarily catch every story. So if, if you post something and, you know, you didn’t see the brand handle, like it, it can never hurt to screenshot that and just, you know, shoot it to us in an email or just, you know, let us know like, Oh, I like, I received the products.

I love them so much. I don’t know if you saw it. Like I, I, Because, yeah, we don’t catch everything and, you know, you want to get credit for that. So, you know, that can never hurt to just, you know, make sure you have a record of that story. And if it makes sense to shoot it over to us, [00:44:00] like we always appreciate that.

Yes, 

[00:44:02] Steph Martin: this next topic is something that I think that you and I both wish we could scream from the rooftops to every creator, no matter the situation. And this is why we are on your team. We are in this industry and in this business, because we love creators like this is fun for us. We love working with creators to bring a piece of content to life.

I love getting to meet new creators and getting to email all of them. Like, I do this because I love it. And I chose it as a career for that reason, but we’re on your team and sometimes, you know, we’re fighting battles for you that you don’t even know about behind the scenes, right? We’re trying to always get more budget for you.

We’re trying to help give you the flexibility and the freedom. You emailed us that a big idea, right? We’re trying to see how can we get the budget to bring that to life in a few months. Like we really are on the side of creators. And so just know that in mind that if we’re asking you to It’s not because we [00:45:00] personally don’t like your video for whatever reason.

It’s because we want you to be successful in this campaign. That is our job to ensure your success. We want the brand to renew with you. We want to keep working with you. We’re not asking you for an edit, because personally, you know, I didn’t like something about that video. It’s usually because of a, you know, compliance issue, a regulatory issue, you know, a brand issue.

We’re like, oh, they can’t say that because, you know, there’s a problem with legal, or they can’t say that because it’s not the right, you know, it’s not an accurate description of the product, or it’s not accurately speaking to the product name. So just know, we’re on your team. And also, we’re here to work with you.

We’re here to solution with you. Right? If you have an issue, if you have a question, if you’re like, I can’t reshoot that one bit because I’m no longer at that location. Let’s talk about it. Maybe you can do an edit at the beginning of the video. Maybe you can do a voiceover and we can put in some B roll footage like we’re on your team.

And Lauren, you know, I think the other thing is like when we send a reshoot or an edit request, right? Personally, if I’m asking somebody to reshoot a video, [00:46:00] It’s because I have exhausted every other option before I go ask for a reshoot. Like, we don’t take reshoots lightly. Like, I don’t. I would never go ask somebody to reshoot a video.

Not. Unless I have to. 

[00:46:11] Lauren Gabel: Yeah, like, we are always, you know, trying to figure out how we can, you know, get creative with our editing to avoid reshoots. Like, so, If ever a time does come where we do have to ask somebody to reshoot, it usually is with, like, very good reason, like, you know, maybe legal, like, there was a big issue, like, I work on a lot of alcohol campaigns, and those come with a lot of restrictions, and some of them are things you would not necessarily just, like, obviously know, you know, some of them, maybe people should Be able to figure out that.

Oh, maybe I shouldn’t have a glass of alcohol with like, you know, the fireplace going in the background because flammable. But then there’s other things that like people don’t realize are, you know, maybe going to be legal issues. And there have been times when we’ve had to have [00:47:00] people refilm because, you know, honestly, it was kind of out of our hands.

Like this was like, you know, It’s a legal consideration. And, you know, there’s a lot of there’s restrictions that, you know, brands just might not be comfortable with taking a chance on. And so, yeah, like, you know, that we don’t take those, you know, those requests lightly at all. Like, we always try to figure out alternative solutions that don’t involve refilming.

And, you know, I can’t tell you how many times I, you know, will fight for the creator to like on the back with the client or, you know, just not. Yeah. Telling them like, you know, you know, like the creator, they followed the brief, they followed their proof synopsis, you know, asking them to refilm doesn’t feel fair.

And, you know, how can we? Look at this a little bit more creatively to get, you know, accomplish our goal. You know, can we do an edit here? And then maybe like, you know, pull that up and, you know, maybe we just cut to an insert here. So I’m always kind of looking for those creative solutions. And I can’t tell you like how many times I’ll watch a video, like 25 [00:48:00] times, you know, too, you know, help you avoid a reshoot request.

So, you know, I, sometimes you do have to ask, you know, For a reshoot, but it’s only after exhausting all other possibilities. Yes. 

[00:48:16] Steph Martin: Yes I would say if you’re creating you’re listening to this and someone has asked just for a reshoot No, they have probably looked at that video 500 times, they have probably explored every possible option first of how to fix it, or how to make an edit before reshooting, and that is truly a last resort, for whatever reason, but just know that we fight for you, right?

We’re always, I would say like, you know, always championing creators, championing your work, Your content, you know, trying to prove out the value that we should continue to invest in influencer marketing because we know it works and we love seeing it work and we love seeing it drive business results for us.

So just know that we’re on your side and we do this because we love creators. We love content. We love working with you and we do it with only the [00:49:00] best intentions at heart. Quick question for you guys. 

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[00:50:37] Steph Martin: as much as I do. I want to go down to another kind of sticky topic, Maureen, and this is about rates. So what do you wish creators knew? about rates, negotiations, pricing, what advice 

[00:50:52] Lauren Gabel: would you give them? So, you know, at the end of the day, you can set your rate at whatever you want, [00:51:00] but then you also have to like, you know, take a step back and like, look at You know, how many brands are you able to work with if you set it here?

If you set it here, like, maybe, you know, a lot more doors are opened and, you know, if you are a doctor who has, you know, you have a day job as a, as a physician, but you just have, you know, you’re doing your YouTube, your Instagram handle is just kind of like a side project, you might not. You might not care if you only do one or two brand deals a year.

Maybe that’s enough. Maybe that’s honestly, like, all you can handle. But if you’re a content creator who, you know, you’re doing this as your, like, full-time job, you, you know, working more often might be more important to you than setting your rate super high. You might have a wider range. And I also would encourage you to just, you know, if you do want to be a creator who works a lot, you know, just So, um, you know, it’s, it’s just being flexible on the rate like you, like I, as a freelancer, I work with a lot of different brands.

Some of them are big brands with bigger [00:52:00] budgets. And then I work with some that are, you know, smaller brands that are just kind of getting started in the influencer marketing space. And they aren’t working with huge budgets. They’re working with small budgets. But, you know, one of the interesting things about me is I can bring you a tiny little project for a smaller brand and, you know, maybe you are, you know, flexible with me on your rate.

And I’m never going to hold that as like precedent, you know if you do, you know, show some flexibility on your rate on, you know, one project. And if you’re good to work with and, you know, you were working on the price on the smaller campaign. Like. Yeah. When I have a bigger budget, like a thousand percent, like throw you a bone, you know, so, you know, just keeping in mind, like, as if you want to work a lot, like being flexible on your rates is going to be in your interest in the long run, but yeah, like I said, at the end of the day, like if you, if you’re okay, only working with on, you know, one or two brand deals and setting your rate kind of high.

And, you know, that’s also an option, [00:53:00] like anything is on the table, but you also have to remember that. You know, we can have two creators, and we might be willing to pay 5k for one of them and just not on the other, because we have to kind of look at our budget, you know, as a whole, and oftentimes, you know, you’re not the only person we’re negotiating with, we have a bunch of negotiations, all happening at once.

And we have to make sure that we’re coming in at a certain number. And, you know, I also like me personally, like, do try to keep, you know, what I’m paying people like, you know, In somewhat of the same ballpark range, like, you know, if, if one, if the, you know, kind of similar types of creators and one is asking for 10k, one is asking for one, like, and everybody else in the campaign is making about one, you know, I probably am not going to be willing to do 10k for the one, the one talent, because I know that there’s always, there’s going to be other creators that I might be able to, you know, get to 10k.

In a similar price point to like the rest of the creators and I’m working with and [00:54:00] that just feels like a little bit more Fair to me in a way but yeah, like so much goes into like the so much goes into rates and You know, we also have insight into you know Does, does, is the client willing to pay that amount for this person?

Like there might be another creator that they kind of liked just as much, and that could easily kind of be swapped in. If somebody isn’t willing to negotiate or be flexible on the rate, there’s somebody else that we can go out to. But if you’re, if you’re a super niche creator, you probably have a little more ground to legs to stand on.

If you want to. You know, really kind of push hard on the right side of things. So yeah, that’s always something to kind of like also look at is, you know, what particular niche are you coming from? You know, are there a lot of other creators that could probably be subbed in? You know, a lot of other people that kind of are working and creating content in this way and this like vertical, or are you super specific?

And they might not be able to [00:55:00] find another creator to replace you if you say no. So that’s something also to think about as you’re. Trying to figure out how hard you want to, you know. Negotiate. 

[00:55:10] Steph Martin: Yeah, I would say to like it for creators listening. It is okay to negotiate. Most of the time. It’s expected to negotiate.

We’re open to it, right? Don’t ever be afraid to negotiate. And again, ask the question. Ask. Hey, you know, do you have any wiggle room on the budget? Could you go up to X number? I feel more comfortable at this number. Just come https: otter. ai

Or more money, right? Is it because this is lower than your typical rate? Is it because you know that you can drive results and come with like kind of background to help us make that case? Because we might also have to go make that case to somebody else to get more budget for this campaign.

Or we might have to weigh out why we’re going to pay you more versus paying another creator more. So don’t be afraid to negotiate as long as your risk I would say the respectful thing is very key and professional, but also come with the numbers to back it up. Right? Say, Hey, my last brand [00:56:00] deal I did, I sold X amount of product.

I drove this many clicks, you know, I went above and beyond and did this, this, and this, or Hey, would you be willing to increase the rate? And I’ll do three extra stories for you or, you know, add something in it to make it worth it. If you need to get the number a little bit higher. I would say be open to negotiating.

We don’t mind if you negotiate. We might not always be able to accommodate it. Most folks on the brand side will try to work something out with you. Don’t be afraid to do it. I would say as long as you’re not making up a random number, you should be okay. That’s a challenge, right? As if somebody says, I want the offer was a thousand.

I want ten thousand. Okay, tell us why. You can’t tell us why because you just made up that number. That’s going to be harder for us to help justify getting that budget for you. But if you come with all of these reasons and you have this amazing engagement rate and you’re excited about this project and you’ve already been using it for five years and you can go back and film, you know, you have old content from five years ago that shows you using it and you can make this fantastic video and you can do extra stories.

Okay, we can, we can talk [00:57:00] about how we can make this, this partnership, you know, maybe meet somewhere in the middle. So don’t be afraid to negotiate. On the same side, like, you can charge whatever you want. If you want to charge 10, 000, if you want to charge a million dollars, that’s okay. But to Lauren’s point, just know, that not every brand might be, is going to be able to say yes to that.

So if you’re okay with doing a few brand deals for people who are going to pay that rate, Go for it. It’s your right to charge whatever you want. Just know that the brand might not always be able to accommodate that. So you might have less, you know, less deals that kind of come to fruition for you. And I would say the other thing too that I wish I had a better answer for is there’s no standard rate formula amongst every single brand.

I think there are a lot of folks who try to create or triangulate a formula. The thing is every brand evaluates and prices influencers differently. And like, I know that stinks. I know that that is not great news for a creator because I can only speak for brands that I’ve worked on, but every single brand prices things [00:58:00] differently.

So some brands are going to have bigger budgets to Lauren’s point, especially if they might be a larger brand, and some brands might have smaller budgets. Some brands use influencers for different things, right? Maybe they’re using. Influencers drive for this one product to drive sales, and they have a bigger budget for that versus for awareness, or another project, they might have a smaller budget.

Maybe their budget at the end of the year is bigger than their budget in June. Things just fluctuate, and there’s no standard rate formula. So just because one brand could pay you something one time doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re going to pay you back. All brands can do that. Or just because you had a lower rate one time doesn’t mean you have, you know, you won’t have the flexibility to go higher, even with the same brand.

So I think that’s important to remember, too, is that it’s not standardized. 

[00:58:42] Lauren Gabel: And I would also just say, like, you know, if Somebody comes to you with a brand deal and you’re interested and you, you know, are trying to figure out how you can make a deal work, even if you can’t necessarily hit the number that you’re trying to, you know, get to, I would also just encourage you to like, look at the [00:59:00] other levers and things you can play around with in the deal.

Like, can you maybe reduce some of the usage or something Could they send you a ton of extra product that could make it, you know, a little bit more appealing? They give you a behind-the-scenes tour of their factory that might be really cool content for you. You know, I would just encourage you to be creative, not just with your creativity, but with the deal as well and the partnership.

You know, there’s a lot of different things you can play with that are not strictly, you know, just the fee number. So, yeah, like don’t, if there’s something you’re, you want to try to figure out how to make it work, see what else you can play with. 

[00:59:42] Steph Martin: Yep, also, you know, maybe offer, Hey, this one video, I can’t do it as a one-off for this price, but I can give you three videos and YouTube for X price.

Again, to your point, Lauren, like get creative, right? If you’re looking to hit a certain number, add more deliverables, say, maybe I can extend this into a three-month partnership instead of a one-off. [01:00:00] Maybe the brand knows that they have a big campaign coming up for January and they want to secure you for both.

They’re like, actually, that’s great. That’s even better for me because instead of booking you for 5, 000, now I can book you for. 7, 000 for now and January or now and whatever date or you can do stories or you can host an event again Just be creative and think about all the different ways. You can work with the brand outside of what’s written on paper today. 

[01:00:23] Lauren Gabel: Yeah, also like one other good kind of thing You can sometimes do is if you know, maybe they can’t read your meet your rate UGC instead of being posted on your channel you know, sometimes if you Like, you know, back to the earlier question about asking questions, if, if you ask questions and it sounds like what they’re interested in is a piece to repost on their channel, maybe that’s an easy solve, you know?

So, yeah, I would say, you know, always just be on the lookout for things that you can, you know, play away, play around with. 

[01:00:55] Steph Martin: Absolutely. I want to get into one of our final topics today, and that is [01:01:00] that things are going on behind the scenes that we can’t tell you about. And trust me, there are so many times where I wish that I could, like, I wish I could tell you what’s going on behind the scenes, but you just won’t know And sometimes it’s because it wouldn’t be a professional for us to tell you, sometimes we just can’t due to confidentiality reasons, sometimes we don’t have an answer but something is going on.

So just know that when things happen, when things change, if we can’t tell you, there’s usually a reason why, and there’s stuff that you will never know about behind the scenes. And maybe The person who was the VP who loved influencer marketing was championing for this budget, just left the company and now the influencer budget is suddenly in flux and that’s why we can’t move forward with another campaign.

Maybe we just got numbers back for the end of the year and we realized, hey, We actually, we thought we were going to do hair care, now our hair care line isn’t doing, you know, is doing okay, but our skincare line needs some love before the end of the year because these numbers aren’t looking [01:02:00] great.

We have to change our budget from hair care to skincare or from lip gloss to mascara. There are just things that we can’t always tell you about. We’ll try to be transparent where we can. But just know that you don’t always have the full picture, and I would also say, like, don’t, because of that, don’t ever assume anything is personal, and don’t ever assume that you 100 percent know.

And I think that’s tough, too, right? If a brand says, I can’t work with you right now, you’re like, well, why? And there might be a reason why that we can’t talk about. Or we might be able to tell you, hey, we think you’d be a great match for this, but we’re not activating this campaign right now. So just know that we’re fighting for you, and if we could tell you everything, we would, and sometimes, we just can’t.

[01:02:41] Lauren Gabel: Yeah, I mean, we, uh, every day, I feel like I fight for talent, for their ideas, and for their video to get approved, as is. But also know that you know, we’re on emails with ten people who are stakeholders. And, you know, sometimes we just, we can’t push every [01:03:00] single decision through but know that, like, we’re on your side.

We fight for you 100%. And, you know, at the end of the day, we just want to get through our day and, you know, have a successful campaign. So, Yeah, just know that we’re on your side. We’re on your side. 

[01:03:15] Steph Martin: Yeah, 100%. We are. And I think, you know, one last question that I’ve received that I want to address before we close out with some final thoughts is how can a creator stand out?

My initial reaction to this is if you’re pitching a brand, already be using the brand. Like I would, if somebody sent me an email and they said, Hey, here’s my pitch for this brand. So I’m saying, Oh, here’s what I would do. Here’s what I would do. Yeah. Show me what you’ve done. Show me you love this brand.

If you are the biggest fan, I’m just picking this up off my desk. If you are the biggest fan of this lip gloss ever, like show me how you’ve already made five videos about this lip gloss in the last year. Maybe five is too much for you, but show me how you’ve already done a full product review how you incorporated it into your spring look, and how you brought it with you on vacation.

Show me that you already have [01:04:00] passion for the project, that you know how to talk about the brand, right because I could see in your other videos, do you actually know what you’re talking about? Do you actually like this brand? Do you actually like this product? That’s a lot easier for me to look at than if you send me a hypothetical situation.

And I would also say going back to this is a business deal and we’re looking for results. Show me data. Tell me, hey, in the last campaign I worked on, I was able to drive this many sales if you know that number. On average, my videos are getting this many views. I think your target market might be women between the ages of 35.

Here’s a screenshot of my demo showing that I’m hitting women in the US between ages 35 or 25 and 35. Like, come with the data and make a compelling case for yourself. Show me what you’ve already done. Show me why you’re a good fit and then tell me what you would want to do. That is a lot easier for me to think about opportunities for you than sending me just a general, here’s my general media kit, I’d love to work with you.

Like, I can’t do anything with that. Even if I think you’re amazing and I want to, now the work is on me to try to figure out, well, where can I put this [01:05:00] person? I don’t know, are they for an awareness campaign? Are they here? Does it make sense for us to work with them? Show me why it already makes sense for us to work with you.

Come with the data. 

[01:05:08] Lauren Gabel: Yeah, it’s I would say personalize, personalize, personalize generic templates that feel like you’re sending to 10 other brands that just really doesn’t get you anywhere. But if you come with, hey, like, like you said, like, here’s, here’s content I’ve already produced, because I’m a genuine fan.

Here’s an idea that I think would be great, or options for ideas like that are even better. You know, and also just being like, you know, I’m willing to brainstorm for you. Like, you know, if you You know, let me know, like what type of campaigns you’re running or what, you know, products trying to highlight this season.

Like, I’m happy to brainstorm some ideas around that, you know, that can help you stand out. I would also say, like, you know, here’s something that I feel like doesn’t maybe get asked enough, but you Asking brands and this works probably better with brands that maybe you’ve been, you already have kind of an established [01:06:00] relationship with, but reaching out to them and seeing if like they, you know, want to sponsor your holiday party by providing product to you.

Like, I think that this is something that is usually not like a huge ad. It’s usually doable for the brain. Like it’s like, can sometimes be harder to find money out of nowhere, but finding a product out of nowhere, like that’s like, Providing a product is like a very feasible thing in a lot of like for a lot of brands.

So, you know, that’s something to also kind of think about. Like if you, that could like, you know, help you throw a better party and you know, it always helps to also like throw in like, Oh, you know, this is going to be attended by 10 of my influencer friends who are probably going to be opening. Showcasing your products or, you know, Oh, I can do this for you.

I can like, I’ll, I’ll do some like added value posts in exchange for you hooking me up with like this product. So I think that that kind of those kind of pitches can be, you know, really appealing and you know, great and Easy to actually like kind of follow through on, especially like, you know, yeah, sorry, it’s a great way. 

[01:06:58] Steph Martin: to get your foot.

It’s a great way [01:07:00] to get your foot in the door, though, of building that relationship showing, Hey, I actually want to share this with friends and family and then capture content at the event. If someone sends you a product then you can come back and say, Hey, I created all this great content with the product you sent me.

My friends loved it. Here’s all the content from the party. We were telling you, we were talking about how great the product was, and now you have a foot in the door to have a relationship with the brand. For a paid partnership. So I think that’s great advice for Lauren. You are filled with so much wisdom and so much creativity I think that’s one of your your strong suits as we wrap up today’s episode What are your final parting thoughts for things that you could wish you? 

[01:07:35] Lauren Gabel: wish that you could tell creators?

I would just say like remember that this is a relationship business at the end of the day, know You have a relationship with your audience, but also like the relationship you have with brands and the people kind of like the middleman, like me, like the kind of people who sit between the brand and talent, like, you know, we, [01:08:00] we all want to work with good people.

We want to work with people who make our lives easier. So, you know, as much as possible, be kind, be friendly, be transparent, have good communication. And, you know, we’ll, we’ll want to keep working with you. Yep. 

[01:08:13] Steph Martin: Could not agree more. I think of my closing thoughts is that we’re people, right? There are people on the other side of this brand deal.

There are people like me and Lauren who are always fighting for you, fighting for creators, being kind, being professional, um, Being human, right? Be a good human, but be human and know that we’re human to be transparent. And you know, it’s two things, right? It’s a relationship and it’s still great content and great content.

As we talked about today, it can look like a variety of things. It can look like making content after you were gifted something, right? It can look like making a great piece of sponsored content. It can look like sending a good idea content. You know, is still key. So making great content, maintaining those relationships, that’s how you can keep winning in this space.

And [01:09:00] that’s how, you know, brands will want to keep working with you. And I think you can build a long, sustainable career with a ton of brand opportunities. So really appreciate your thoughts. Lauren, if our listeners want to reach out to you or connect with you after this call, what’s the best way for them to do that?

[01:09:14] Lauren Gabel: Email, Instagram. I think we’re going to be linking them in the show notes. Correct? 

[01:09:19] Steph Martin: Yes, correct. So we’ll play it. You’re LinkedIn in there. Great. We’ll tell folks to reach you on LinkedIn. You can reach me on LinkedIn as well. We’d love to hear from creators, managers, and other brands like what you thought of today’s episode.

Really appreciate it. And thank you so much, Laura. And hope we can chat more about all things creator soon. 

[01:09:37] Jessy: If you enjoyed this episode, we’ve got to have you back. Check out our website for more ways to get involved, including all the information you need about joining our collective. You can check out all the information at iamwiim.com. Leave us a review and a rating, but the most important thing that we can ask you to do is to share this podcast. Thanks for listening. Tune in next week.