Rethinking How We Use Creators

[00:00:00] Nycole Hampton: When you think about building your role, thinking more about just content marketing as a whole, and so much broader, there are so many opportunities in content marketing and integrated marketing. So really just take the parts of the job you love and keep building on them. 

[00:00:21] Jessy Grossman: Hey guys, and welcome back.

[00:00:25] Jessy Grossman: The WIIM Podcast. I am very excited to be back here with you guys. If you have not yet subscribed to our YouTube channel, please do so. If you have not pushed the follow button on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, would you please Just take a second to do that? If you’ve heard us before and you’ve tuned in multiple times if you’re new 

[00:00:50] Nycole Hampton: though, welcome.

[00:00:51] Jessy Grossman: And I hope that we earn that from you by the end of this conversation. It’s a good one. We have a wonderful guest who I’m going to introduce in just a second, but guys, [00:01:00] I’m so excited. We just got written up in Business Insider this week, and we’ve been written up in it before, but this one was like, we had so many cool testimonials from people who are making money from it.

[00:01:13] Jessy Grossman: Our slack community, it’s the coolest thing ever. I mean, certainly, we have like so many different aspects of the community, but they wanted to focus specifically on Slack. So we had all these incredible stories people shared with business insiders about us, it was like really. Flattering, humbling and exciting.

[00:01:36] Jessy Grossman: So thank you to the system center for spotlighting us. And we’ll link to that in the show notes. If you do want to check it out, it is paywalled, but we did share screenshots in our Slack board. So if you’re a member, just look at me. I think it’s in the wins channel, if I remember correctly because I want to encourage everybody to share there.

[00:01:55] Jessy Grossman: Twins as well. So this week’s episode is such a good [00:02:00] one. Oh, but I have to acknowledge tomorrow’s Valentine’s Day. Suppose you’re listening to this episode when it premieres, so happy Valentine’s Day to you guys on all of these holidays, on any holiday. I will always be the first one to like to raise my hand and say, like, for those of you guys who don’t necessarily celebrate the holiday from a traditional sense to like, maybe you don’t have someone in your life or maybe you’ve lost someone important in your life and like holidays can just be so hard.

[00:02:30] Jessy Grossman: So like, yes. Happy Valentine’s Day to those of you who have the loves of your life in your life, like hug them tighter, give them big kisses, and tell them how much you love and appreciate them. But I also really just want to acknowledge those of you guys as well, who it’s like a tough day for, and it’s, we’re here for you as a community.

[00:02:51] Jessy Grossman: We actually, I just was at the post office sending out a couple of candles because I got my cricket. And for any of you guys, you know, [00:03:00] it’s like a DIY sort of like vinyl cutter. So I got my cricket and I got a few candles and we DIY them like with whim hearts on them specifically for Valentine’s Day. Cause we just ran a, like a fun giveaway.

[00:03:14] Jessy Grossman: So I just sent those out for Valentine’s Day. Cause I just want to make sure everyone feels special and loved regardless of your fricking situation. I think that everyone deserves that. So sending you guys, you, you, not you guys. I’m sending you specifically who are listening to this right now. A lot of love and appreciation.

[00:03:32] Jessy Grossman: You’re doing amazing and you deserve to be loved. And I want nothing more than all the love in your life. And I’m excited for 2024 for all of us, we’re going to have. Everything we want this year. I think so. I do because 2023 was so shitty. All right, you guys, this episode is such a good one.

[00:03:52] Jessy Grossman: It is with WIIM member and mentor Nicole Hampton. So she is a friend to show. She’s a [00:04:00] seasoned marketer. She’s got over 20, I think nearly 20 years of experience. She’s currently serving as the head of content engagement marketing at Good Rx. She’s a builder, a problem solver, and a strategic thought leader who has built and led social media, influencer, and content marketing practices and teams within global agencies and in-house.

[00:04:21] Jessy Grossman: At her core, she’s a passionate storyteller who specializes in evolving content strategies to provide value. Spark engagement and have the power to drive conversation, growth, and deeper brand affinity among customers. She also enjoys leveraging her experience to further educate and spark passion among the next generation of marketers.

[00:04:41] Jessy Grossman: And as I mentioned before, she is a mentor of ours, a mentor of other organizations, and she also speaks at industry events. I’m very excited to welcome her to the show today. So without further ado.

[00:04:57] Jessy Grossman: This show is sponsored by [00:05:00] Women in Influencer Marketing, better known as WIIM, the best online community for the creator economy. 

[00:05:06] Nycole Hampton: You will meet 

[00:05:07] Jessy Grossman: For fellow influencer marketers, you’ll meet brands, you’ll meet talent agencies to talk shop, get hired, and even find a mentor. When you become a member, do not forget to Check out all of our incredible resources.

[00:05:21] Jessy Grossman: For example, we have dozens of masterclasses from the top voices, TikTok, YouTube, award-winning agencies, and women who are paving the way for us all. So if you want the chance to network with FooSoo and Influencer Marketing, check out what it takes to become a member. Make more money and have fun doing it.

[00:05:42] Jessy Grossman: Visit iamwiim.com/join. That’s I A M W M. I am dot com slash join today and I so look forward to seeing you more around the community. So first and foremost, I’m just excited to have you like here [00:06:00] with us and have more of our like members get to know you, more of our community gets to know you. So many of them already do.

[00:06:06] Jessy Grossman: Maybe we can get, have them all get to like. No, we don’t have you today. So I’m just excited to have you and welcome. 

[00:06:12] Nycole Hampton: Thanks so much for having me. I know we’ve been talking about this for a while. So excited to finally jump on. Thank 

[00:06:18] Jessy Grossman: you for taking me up on it. I appreciate it. We have like a lot of early interesting topics that I’m hoping that we can all touch on today.

[00:06:27] Jessy Grossman: And I just want to like. Go there on some of those topics. And I feel like you are definitely like one of the people who you’re like, you’ll just go there. So like, let’s do it today. So I think maybe an interesting place to start is like in whim in the past, like few months in particular, we’ve talked a lot about the future.

[00:06:43] Jessy Grossman: of creators in a brand’s broader content marketing strategy. And so we heard a little bit about you in the intro and that you’re with this amazing company, GoodRx. And so I’m curious, like, how is GoodRx using influencers? And like, [00:07:00] what do you think that looks like more broadly? For 

[00:07:04] Nycole Hampton: absolutely, I think that I mean, first and foremost, I think a lot of people see creators as this use for a campaign or a launch.

[00:07:11] Nycole Hampton: And it’s this very specific kind of one-time or even long-term partnership. It’s very specific and you’re not thinking more broadly, how can you utilize it? this, you know, on your social channels and, you know, other places. So for us, one of the first things that I did when I got here about two years ago was really kind of take a look at what was happening on social and rebuild the foundation for how we wanted to tell stories, how we wanted to talk to our customers, our business partners, and what that meant and how we needed to show up.

[00:07:44] Nycole Hampton: So. When we kind of thought about what could that content look like, the creator was a huge part of that because there are a lot of things that creators could do for us and a lot of different ways that we can kind of utilize them to tell those stories. So they’re a big part in our [00:08:00] overall social strategy, as well as other things like highly produced content.

[00:08:03] Nycole Hampton: And then we also work with a creative agency to do fun things like infographics and animations. But we have kind of a three-prong creator program. We have one side that’s really, we kind of call it the consumer program. And that’s where they’re just telling their stories about the brand, their user stories.

[00:08:21] Nycole Hampton: You know, like what was your experience using good or X? Like, how is this? potentially helped you. It’s very authentic, very real. It’s been amazing to work with the people. Poses challenges when you’re trying to work with people that have only used your product, but it’s great when you find those stories and great when you find those people.

[00:08:40] Nycole Hampton: So that’s like one lane. We have this entirely different lane where we work with health care providers and they’re sharing educational, you know, content and information, you know, it’s COVID and flu season and people want to understand this, do I have COVID? Do I have the flu? And it’s just like a quick snackable.

[00:08:58] Nycole Hampton: Education, it’s [00:09:00] health talk type of stuff, but very good. So that’s a whole other program we have, and that allows us to kind of show up in that educational way and not have to have someone internally do it. We have these great partners that we’re able to work with, and then we’re able to reutilize their content as a core of our strategy.

[00:09:17] Nycole Hampton: And then third, we also work with healthcare provider creators who. are doing. They’re talking about products, how GoodRx kind of helps them in their day-to-day, like their work, their patients. So it’s also kind of a healthcare provider user story in a way, a little bit different from, you know, kind of the consumer user stories.

[00:09:35] Nycole Hampton: But each of those is so unique and so different. We’re then able to kind of utilize them. throughout other parts of the business. So in paid social, we’re able to use them in mobile ads on landing pages and websites. So all of the stuff we do is really with the thought in mind of like, how many ways can we potentially utilize this?

[00:09:56] Nycole Hampton: If it’s laddering into a campaign, let’s make sure that it’s showing up in [00:10:00] different places because we truly want to make sure that our customers are seeing its content throughout their journey and getting value. And that comes in different ways. So that’s a very long-winded answer, but that’s how we’re thinking about and utilizing influencers.

[00:10:15] Nycole Hampton: And it’s so much bigger because it’s a core to many strategies. So I think brands as a whole, like that’s really what you have to think about. Like, don’t just go off into like the influencer corner and build this incredible program that kind of happens in a silo and it happens so often. Did awesome.

[00:10:34] Nycole Hampton: Amazing work, but you don’t even see it re-shared on the brand social or it doesn’t ever get paid support. So it just really kind of depended on the creator. It doesn’t end up in an email or whatever. So really kind of get in there early. Have those conversations like making sure the team is a part of the planning so you can think about if you’ve got a cool email blast going out.[00:11:00] 

[00:11:00] Nycole Hampton: Do you want to quote from a creator? Do you want a user story to put in there? Yeah. It’s just about brainstorming and being in there early so that you can kind of support other initiatives and show up in a much bigger way. I 

[00:11:11] Jessy Grossman: love that. I mean, and also like, based on the brand that you’re working with in-house, GoodRx, like I can imagine that.

[00:11:19] Jessy Grossman: The marketing can be that much more impactful when it’s telling real-life stories. It’s like every brand, I guess, isn’t created equal, but like, if you’re in the same boat, there’s a brand where it’s like good RX, where it’s like, there are some impactful stories that can be told. Like you might as well rally the troops and be like, how many different ways can we share these stories?

[00:11:40] Jessy Grossman: But I also like, I’ve never worked in-house at a brand. And so like. I’m sure you’re going to enlighten me, but I can imagine some people maybe work in house at a brand, and like, maybe the teams are just very siloed from each other. And maybe like they came in with the intentions of like, they hear this podcast, they hear what you’ve achieved and they’re like, this doesn’t seem [00:12:00] possible though.

[00:12:00] Jessy Grossman: Like where I am, there’s like major disconnects. What advice would you give them to maybe like the reverse course and like make? 

[00:12:09] Nycole Hampton: Yeah. Honestly, I think it’s about kind of chipping away one step at a time. I don’t think that you kind of just say, Hey, here’s what we want to do. Like everyone change all of their plans.

[00:12:19] Nycole Hampton: You know, it might be something as small as if the influencer and social team aren’t connected, like start building a relationship. Understand like, what is their strategy for the year? How can you partner to make sure that they’re? utilizing the content and it’s at its core to one of their strategies and pillars that they have also talked to the paid teams.

[00:12:39] Nycole Hampton: It’s, I mean, it’s very relationship-based as so much as when we’re working, but just get to know all of these different teams. Instead of kind of doing a program and then hoping they use it, understand what their goals are for the year, what kind of content they use, and what they could be interested in testing.

[00:12:58] Nycole Hampton: Then when they’re actually. [00:13:00] Part of your program in advance. And they’re a part of that decision making people get more excited to kind of try new things. I think the hardest part is when, like I said, like you’re creating this great program that did well. You had the best creators, and the best content, but maybe it wasn’t what the social team wanted to feature over the next quarter or two.

[00:13:21] Nycole Hampton: So understanding the upfront is critical. Also, I always tell people that if you are. In a silo on your team, figure out how to get one of your team members, your team leads into all of the core meetings where they’re talking about campaigns, where they’re doing kickoffs, you’ve got to be in so early because then you can raise your hand and say, creators, could do this.

[00:13:45] Nycole Hampton: Like we’d love to test this or we’re doing this. That helps people start to understand the capabilities of the work that you do. And then they kind of grab on more. They’re more interested to see, okay, like. How can we potentially test this or work [00:14:00] with you for things in the future? It’s definitely a process of like a thousand percent, but it’s all about relationships and just continuing to like etch away and kind of get in the right rooms and the right meetings.

[00:14:10] Nycole Hampton: Yeah. 

[00:14:11] Jessy Grossman: And like, that’s good advice. Cause I can imagine that like some people who just like maybe haven’t. Implemented creators and to what their work that they’re doing, like they just don’t get it and you only know what you know, you know, and so like being able to prove that out to them, we’re always talking about like proving things out externally, but sometimes you got to prove it internally to it can be.

[00:14:32] Jessy Grossman: a challenge when you’re like, shouldn’t you get this? Shouldn’t you understand it? She, you know, you work in marketing, but like not everybody has the familiarity of creators or understands like the power that they can, or maybe there was somebody in your role previously who wasn’t doing a great job working with creators, right?

[00:14:52] Jessy Grossman: And so maybe like now you are the right person for the job. Maybe they can let down their defenses a little bit because they were [00:15:00] critical of the person before you. I don’t know. I’m just making stuff up. But yeah, I think I like that idea of like chipping away on it. It takes time. It’s not something that’s necessarily gonna happen overnight, so don’t get discouraged when it Doesn’t have it overnight.

[00:15:12] Jessy Grossman: And so I’m curious, like how do you like, so we’re talking about planning a lot of planning and a lot of stuff, which like, Oh my gosh, I’ve learned, I feel like last year for me, it was like an eyeopening year of like how much more you can do when you just plan more and you do more and more in advance.

[00:15:27] Jessy Grossman: So talk us like through, how do you build a campaign or build out your year when you want to achieve a lot with your content, you come in with like lofty goals, like how do you do that? 

[00:15:39] Nycole Hampton: Yeah. So for us, I really, and more broadly beyond us as well, I’ve done this at agencies for clients. I think you have to think of your calendar as layers, and I always used to call it a layered approach, but think first and foremost, what are the campaigns that the company is focusing on for the year?

[00:15:56] Nycole Hampton: For us, it’s conditions-based. So we’re focusing on things like [00:16:00] women’s health and different conditions. So that’s kind of your core, everyone in the company, all initiatives are going to be laddering into that. Next are other company priorities. Are there product launches? You know, are there refreshing new products, you know, different things that are happening, like.

[00:16:15] Nycole Hampton: What are those kind of company priorities at that next level? Those are things you tend to kind of know at the beginning of the year. Everyone’s planning around them because they’re big, they’re important. They might shift a little bit, but you can always keep those top of mind and kind of save money for them as well in your creator budgets.

[00:16:32] Nycole Hampton: Then I always think about. What are you going to do from an evergreen perspective? Not everything creator has to be a campaign or a moment. So how can you do things evergreen? That’s where like our user story series comes in. We’re just kind of telling stories throughout the year. Sometimes they’ll add her into campaigns, but sometimes they’re just really important topics that we know are going to resonate with people.

[00:16:55] Nycole Hampton: people or their conditions that people are just talking a lot about at the moment. So we [00:17:00] want to make sure that we’re getting out there to support and so that everyone knows that they can also be utilizing the brand education as I talked about earlier that we can talk about all year round.

[00:17:10] Nycole Hampton: Very similarly, we just kind of look to see like, are there trending topics? So that’s when you’re also partnering with social, doing social listening. See, like, what do people want to learn about right now? What’s in the news? Is it coronavirus? Is it the cold? Like, what are people talking about and how can we educate and provide value to kind of help them out?

[00:17:28] Nycole Hampton: So really kind of looking at your calendar from that perspective. So you have these two layers that are a little bit less flexible because they’re full company, everyone’s supporting them, and then you have this nice layer that’s flexible that you can. Really kind of also having some fun with tests learning some new things, and trying some new partnerships.

[00:17:48] Nycole Hampton: This might be where you add in some folks for a longer term if they’re great partners, but giving yourself kind of that layer of planning, I think, has always been helpful and I’ve seen it work with a lot of different. Types of [00:18:00] clients and industries so yeah, I’m 

[00:18:01] Jessy Grossman: like, just, I appreciate the idea of like testing and learning experimentation, like figuring out what works for you.

[00:18:06] Jessy Grossman: Cause like, I don’t know about you, but like one of the things I can’t stand is whether it’s like a podcast, a conference or whatever, where people just like sit up and on a stage or have a platform and basically like, this is the way to do the thing. And it’s like, there are. So many variables to that.

[00:18:20] Jessy Grossman: Like, I mean, I can rattle off a million like so quickly. So like, there are just so many variables to that. So I appreciate like, you know, going into it humbly saying like, you know, we’re gonna make an educated guess here, but like ultimately we need to figure it out together and see what works. There are too many variables to properly, like predict it.

[00:18:38] Jessy Grossman: And so. Another thing I’d love to dig into a little bit is like, this is something that I’ve heard a lot about in WIIM in particular, probably a lot from our talent managers. And what they’ll tell me is that it’s usually for slightly larger campaigns, like multiple rounds, where they’re negotiating with the agency or the brand directly.

[00:18:56] Jessy Grossman: And they’re negotiating a lot around [00:19:00] usage, right? Because from a talent manager’s perspective, they want to be properly compensated depending on what the usage is. And then they do, so they do all this work, all this negotiating, but then like the brand never even uses the content. And I think like we’re all perplexed.

[00:19:17] Jessy Grossman: Like, why did we just Go through this whole rigmarole? Like for what purpose? And I mean, I see it from multiple perspectives, but for the brand side, I’m like, that is such a missed opportunity, you know? And so I’m curious, like someone who like works at a brand just like has worked with brands for so many years.

[00:19:33] Jessy Grossman: Like why, how do you avoid that happening in a social-first model? You know, like not using the content. What is the philosophy around? I 

[00:19:43] Nycole Hampton: mean, honestly, that is such a big part of like how. We’ve built a team where we are thinking about social strategy being at the foundation. So all of our creator’s work was to fuel our society.

[00:19:56] Nycole Hampton: So for us, like that’s what, and really kind of [00:20:00] shifting and like thinking about that model has been huge. I know a lot of people though, it’s not similar and they might have the influencer team here, the social team here. Like, meet once a week or something. It’s not super collaborative. So that’s going back to the whole situation of meeting with people early.

[00:20:18] Nycole Hampton: What are their plans? What do they need? What are they interested in? You’ve got to understand that and not just kind of hope to get or, you know, kind of secure the usage and then hope that they might use it. It’s understanding What can we like have you test and like build that relationship to kind of get what they want because some paid teams might want a very specific like it has to be super short or we need to make sure that like this is not in there or for legal reasons like make sure it doesn’t look like this or whatever the case may be different teams have different like rules and restrictions.

[00:20:54] Nycole Hampton: So just talking to people is going to help you it. Get them to use [00:21:00] it versus hoping for the best after, but I agree. I think it’s one of the saddest things, honestly, in my perspective, because someone that works in like the social creator content, I’m like, I see all of these amazing. Influencer programs are out there.

[00:21:15] Nycole Hampton: And then I’ll go to the brand social page. Cause I’m just curious. I’m like, okay, are you guys using this? And I’ll see that they’re not using anything. And, you know, influencers are just kind of in the tagged section. So I think it’s such a mess. You have incredible people who are out there telling stories, you know, maybe some of the content.

[00:21:40] Nycole Hampton: So I’m pretty sure that if you’ve got a great team, you’re going to be getting a lot of really cool stuff that you can be repurposing potentially throughout the year. Yeah. And like, 

[00:21:48] Jessy Grossman: here’s another idea too. Like, Maybe the content didn’t perform so well on the influencers page, but like, maybe you would perform a little better on yours.

[00:21:59] Jessy Grossman: Like there’s [00:22:00] actually like a period where I saw a lot of influencers like who were approaching creating content, like a kind of a unique way. Like some brands are just like incredibly prescriptive in their briefs and you know, what have you about like what they want and. They would approach it as follows.

[00:22:16] Jessy Grossman: Like they would follow the brief to a T and then create that content that the brand is looking for. And then they’re like, but I’m going to create like a slightly different, more casual, like whatever it is, but like a slightly different vibe that they just. I don’t know if that’s the right way to say it, but it’s like, I don’t know, I don’t know.

[00:22:46] Jessy Grossman: We’ll do that. I’ve heard that like very rarely. And of course, like, theoretically, it’s probably a little bit more work, right? But it’s also showing a lot of expertise in your content, and it’s showing just a lot more like higher level [00:23:00] thinking about it all. Um, we’ll also take into consideration Those usage rights and like the brands in general, consider them.

[00:23:07] Jessy Grossman: I can imagine if I were a brand and received something like that, I’d be impressed. Like, has anyone ever approached that with you in such a way, or have you ever experienced 

[00:23:16] Nycole Hampton: that? Anything? You know, I haven’t gotten multiple pieces of content, but what I will say is something that’s required on my team is to always start your negotiation with a phone call.

[00:23:26] Nycole Hampton: So you’re also talking about like what the campaign is like, here’s kind of some ideas on like. How we thought you might be interested in kind of thinking about this or talking about it. And we almost make it like this, like very mini brainstorm just to get a feel for like, how does this like work for them?

[00:23:45] Nycole Hampton: Or how does it work into their channel and their audience? Another thing we do that I do think is important, is it takes an extra step, but we always get concept because I think from there, you’re able to kind of understand like, here’s how they’re thinking about the brief. And our briefs are very And we said [00:24:00] they’re like guardrails.

[00:24:00] Nycole Hampton: They’re not prescriptive in the sense that like, make sure you do X, Y, and Z. We love to be collaborative. We’re all about brainstorming. If people ever want to think through stuff with us, but I think requiring a concept is so important because you’re going to cut down on any reshoots and edits, we never have them because you can understand, like, here’s what we’re going to get.

[00:24:22] Nycole Hampton: In the end, and that’s also where the creator can really kind of say, like, here’s what I think is going to work for my audience based on what you’re hoping for. So I think that’s a really important way to kind of help that creator kind of have that, like, like strategic mindset and like share that and pull that forward.

[00:24:40] Jessy Grossman: Yeah. And like, I’ve seen it where influencers will get overwhelmed maybe with the amount of volume of like projects that they’re doing. It’s the holiday season. There’s just a lot going on in life. And so sometimes, like, it’s not so well received. They’re like, Oh, they wanted to hop on a call.

[00:24:57] Jessy Grossman: I can’t, you just dump it in an email. But like, [00:25:00] I agree with you. I’ve seen that if you just put a little bit more up, like work in the upfront and a little bit better communication in the upfront, it will save you so much time. down the road where you will be complaining so much more if you have to reshoot the frickin content in the first place, you know, or you have to just like, it just, it mitigates that in such a nice way.

[00:25:25] Jessy Grossman: And it’s like you said, like short and sweet call. We’re not talking about like an hour on the phone here. That’s also like. I don’t know. I just, love when I see people who are like really leaning into just building better relationships and like more meaningful relationships. I think that the next step that I hope everybody gets to in the creator economy is just like so much less transactional campaigns.

[00:25:49] Jessy Grossman: Like there, we have to like to raise the bar, be more sophisticated about this. And like, Stop pretending like we’re all robots or like, I just, [00:26:00] yeah, like it’s just not fulfilling for anybody. Okay. So for all of this, right, all this work, all these campaigns that we’re talking about, like be successful. We all want them to succeed.

[00:26:11] Jessy Grossman: I have it to be a cohesive experience where everybody’s communicating. Where should the influencer marketing team sit in an organization? I’m curious about that. Again, I want to just learn the ins and outs of like, Your side of things. Cause I’ve never said, 

[00:26:26] Nycole Hampton: I love that question. And especially having also worked like six or seven years in agencies, I’ve seen brands do it so many different ways.

[00:26:35] Nycole Hampton: And I’ve kind of seen like how it’s affected the team and like what they can and can’t do. So for us and how I used to build agency teams, I built a kind of hybrid social creator, community team. If you think about it there, I mean, all of those things are so intertwined, you know, creator happens on social.

[00:26:54] Nycole Hampton: So I think it’s honestly super critical for anyone that works in influencer marketing [00:27:00] to understand social media channels, how they work algorithms, just all of that stuff. That should be a baseline of knowledge because. You need to, for you to understand the right partners, you need to understand, like, why they’re performing, like, why things are happening, why maybe their audience is engaging more or less, or maybe it’s due to an algorithm, whatever the case is, I always feel like the influencer team should be tied in with social, like, hand in hand, under the same team.

[00:27:28] Nycole Hampton: I think it works perfectly together and just being within the marketing team. I think that’s key. Also, I’ve seen them, both of those teams kind of popped in different places before, which is always so crazy, but within marketing really kind of within brand, because, you know, it’s what’s closest to your customer.

[00:27:44] Nycole Hampton: Like that’s a brand-building activity. That’s not to say that it can’t also drive a full funnel. But from a larger perspective, like this is thinking about like, how are they talking about the brand? How are they engaging with our customers? [00:28:00] So holding it tight to kind of that team, I think is important.

[00:28:03] Nycole Hampton: There’s some, you know, I think companies that are moving it more into like performance or performance only. I think that’s a huge mistake. I think when you’re focusing only on performance and not ever doing it. Any other part of the funnel, I think it’s just a mess. I’ve also seen it really kind of backfire on teams to where they’re just like churning out and it turns into just kind of this like sales, like turning funnel.

[00:28:29] Nycole Hampton: And it’s just something that is not sustainable for a lot of brands. So using creators in different ways, I think would help that and help break up the monotony, help break up how customers see them and see the brand kind of putting themselves forward. So. Yeah. Within marketing, it’s important. I know some companies have it in PR.

[00:28:48] Nycole Hampton: I think that was almost kind of the like old school way of doing it. A lot of like PR people have also kind of like moved into influencer marketing. But when push comes to shove, I think it’s a [00:29:00] marketing function. It’s very interactive. It’s about building the relationship and not about just delivering a message like you know, quick question 

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[00:31:54] Jessy Grossman: And so I’m curious too because you were talking about like having it be maybe in like the performance side of things [00:32:00] and like leads me to think about is this pressure that I think a lot of creators and their managers have felt in the past year in particular for like having each piece of content perform.

[00:32:14] Jessy Grossman: And the idea of content being just for awareness is becoming less and less common. And so I’m curious, like, What your philosophy is on that and how you, like, just your philosophy, like when you approach a campaign and in this brief federal light guardrails, like, do you include, like, we are hoping for you to achieve X, Y, and Z?

[00:32:36] Jessy Grossman: Is that baked into your initial conversation? And what if there is a miss? Like, What do you think of the partnership? If it. Doesn’t reach those expectations 

[00:32:44] Nycole Hampton: for us. It’s more about the quality of the content and the story since they’re typically like storytelling or sharing education. So it’s much more about like the quality of the content.

[00:32:54] Nycole Hampton: We do, of course, want it to get in front of a lot of people. Like the reach is critical. We always have, you know, kind [00:33:00] of some kind of like a link, click that people can go to, so that’s always important, but that’s where it comes back to the place of. This also can be used in other channels, which can also push more of the lower funnel kind of activity because creator work does so well on the paid and whitelisting.

[00:33:17] Nycole Hampton: So that’s where you can kind of like partner and you really with like one piece of content, you can hit the full funnel, but it’s just kind of thinking about. Do you want to put all of that pressure on the creators to do all the work, or are there other ways that you can kind of build out that specific piece of content, even to make it do more?

[00:33:36] Nycole Hampton: I do think it’s really difficult where, you know, creators have these very specific goals, things they have to achieve, but I do think that’s nice where you kind of add into contracts, like having maybe some. You know, plus ups or things that they can kind of earn if you’re kind of focusing on their performance.

[00:33:53] Nycole Hampton: Cause like regular life, if you hit your performance goals at work, maybe you’re going to get a bonus. So I 

[00:33:59] Jessy Grossman: really, [00:34:00] I appreciate that philosophy. It was like talking to a few people about something similar. The other day, and it might get you to the same place., you might get the same result from it, but it’s a different approach, which is like one approach is like, if you don’t hit this milestone, we’re not working with you again.

[00:34:17] Jessy Grossman: Like, it’s like a very, like, I don’t know, like it’s just putting them down. It’s certainly not incentivized. I don’t know who that would incentivize. No one probably. And then, you know, alternatively, it’s like, if you reach the milestone, I’m going to, there’s going to be a bonus there, whether it’s like monetary or like whatever it is.

[00:34:34] Jessy Grossman: And like, That’s going to incentivize someone way more and, and just not be so like fear-led or fear-based. And so I love that idea. Do you see brands doing that though? Like, I think it’s a great idea. I don’t know. I don’t see a ton of people doing it. I hope they adopt it, but do you see that ever in your 

[00:34:52] Nycole Hampton: world?

[00:34:53] Nycole Hampton: I feel like I’ve heard people talking about it for sure. It’s not something that we do just because it’s not something that would necessarily directly [00:35:00] connected to. Like our brand, there’s not necessarily a way for us to measure that. Like we can’t do affiliate, but I think that’s where like affiliate comes in and is huge, but I think when you also think about affiliate marketing, are you also paying the creators or are you just giving them affiliate dollars?

[00:35:14] Nycole Hampton: I think that’s also like an important discussion. And a lot of people making sure you’re also paying for. Their time and the content. And then on top of it, you can pay for, you know, kind of how it’s doing through an affiliate, but I think it’s something that people will start to do more cause I’m hearing more and more of the conversations happen, but you know, I think in general, like people, there’s still all of these huge question marks around anything and everything that has to do about how do you pay people?

[00:35:40] Nycole Hampton: How budgets, how much is someone worth? I just think it’s still such a wide open with people having so many different perspectives and understandings of how budgets work in all of the different areas. 

[00:35:52] Jessy Grossman: Totally. And so like maybe in that same lane, I’m curious, like from your perspective, what are some of the other [00:36:00] challenges that are facing brands and the agencies that are representing them, like currently in the state of influencer marketing that we’re in.

[00:36:06] Jessy Grossman: What are you seeing 

[00:36:07] Nycole Hampton: in your worlds? Yeah, something you said earlier, I think kind of like rang true to say, but this whole like one size fits solution and people trying to sell like very specific things is kind of the success or what’s going to happen. I see on LinkedIn all the time where people are like, we do micro-influencer programs all the time and they’re the best and they work for all of our clients.

[00:36:29] Nycole Hampton: And you know, it’s just these grand sweeping. One size fits all solution. And I think that’s a big kind of challenge for brands because I think that they’re then trying them, things aren’t working the way that people are promising. And then they’re losing some faith in how influencer marketing can and should work for them.

[00:36:50] Nycole Hampton: So it’s really. The challenge is like cutting through the noise. Like, how do you find the right people to do your work? Like, are you hiring in-house and building [00:37:00] kind of an in-house team? If so, you need to have some experience. If you’re going to give that person. I don’t know, 3 million, whatever. You need to have someone who you can trust to go spend 3 million and deliver something that’s going to look good, which means they need to have more experience, and probably be more senior.

[00:37:18] Nycole Hampton: Maybe they need a team to kind of execute all of this. But I think I feel like a lot of companies are still kind of hiring, like. Very entry-level people giving them huge budgets and then expecting these amazing results. And it’s like, wow, that’s a, it’s not fair on the people that are kind of young learning growing in the industry.

[00:37:38] Nycole Hampton: But also it’s just not, you can’t expect them just because they’re young and closer to influencer marketing, which is what I think people think of similar to social, you know when social wasn’t taken seriously. And it was a lot of like, You know, younger people, or they always used to joke. It was like the CEO’s granddaughter could do it.

[00:37:55] Nycole Hampton: I think people are seeing, you know, kind of influencer in the same way. Yeah, [00:38:00] totally. 

[00:38:00] Jessy Grossman: The age thing is an interesting conversation and like just. Some people still have the same philosophy that you just shared, which is like, if you’re younger, you just get it. Cause you’re always on social media and like, I can debunk that, you know, in so many different instances, but conversely, like exactly what you’re saying, like not all of those folks, like have the necessary experience and it’s almost like setting them up for failure.

[00:38:26] Jessy Grossman: But I always get a little worried to talk about. age like that? Because I mean, of lots of reasons, but also like, do you ever personally like wonder about like sort of aging out 

[00:38:39] Nycole Hampton: of such a young industry? Yeah, I mean, that’s a great question. And I’ve seen that topic all over. So for me for my career, you know, I think this is a huge reason why I’ve always Pulled a lot of different things into my job.

[00:38:53] Nycole Hampton: Like I’ve never just been the influencer person or the social person or, and just kind of [00:39:00] one line of work. So as I grow my career, I’m always building in bigger and broader things, you know, like content production, you know, the fuller, like customer service angle of things, and just really thinking about how can you.

[00:39:14] Nycole Hampton: Develop your career that way. And I think that’s another important thing when you think about the influencer team, like making sure you’re working with other teams because that’s where you also can identify new opportunities. Are you building integrated programs? What does that look like? So for me, I do think that there’s a cap on some of these kinds of roles because there’s only going to be like a head of a department or something.

[00:39:39] Nycole Hampton: When I was in agencies, I built influencer, social, and digital departments. So obviously there’s kind of a lead of that, and then that’s kind of the top of that. But when you think about building your role, think more about just content marketing as a whole. So much broader. There are so many opportunities in content marketing and [00:40:00] integrated marketing.

[00:40:01] Nycole Hampton: So. just taking the parts of the job you love and keep like building 

[00:40:05] Jessy Grossman: on them. And so I’d also like to ask you some follow-up questions to that, you know, as somebody more senior in your career, I feel like when you’re just getting into any career, but. Certainly influencer marketing. Like you’re chasing, they’re like clear things to chase, right?

[00:40:22] Jessy Grossman: As like, as you progress through your career, like the first time you make six figures or the first time you get a director title, you know, stuff like that. And then I wonder, like, as we all, like I’m in that group as well, like, cause we all like, age naturally into our roles, how those goals shift and evolve and change?

[00:40:44] Jessy Grossman: Like, is there always this thing to chase or does it shift into your personal life a little bit more? I’m curious what that looks like for you. What are some of your professional goals, you know, now that you’ve been in this for a while? 

[00:40:57] Nycole Hampton: Yeah, that’s a great question. So for me, [00:41:00] I have always been Like, ever since I was young, I’ve always wanted to be, like, in the C suite, like, running some, like, major company.

[00:41:08] Nycole Hampton: I used to always be very worried about, like, I need to be in the top 40 under 40, which, mind you, has now passed. But, I realized, I think, you know, 10 years ago, like, That stuff doesn’t matter from like a getting recognized perspective and being in a list, but to me still, you know, kind of leadership roles are so important and it’s not just about being in charge.

[00:41:29] Nycole Hampton: I genuinely love leading teams, and seeing people grow. Building things for companies, seeing them evolve, challenging people to think differently and grow their careers on my team, or growing the company in a new way because we were just challenged to do something a little different. That’s just something I’m incredibly passionate about.

[00:41:50] Nycole Hampton: So I’m always like building and thinking about what’s next. So for me, it’s continuing to grow upward. I think as I get older, I’m less concerned about [00:42:00] like how fast that happens. Like it’s not a race. Because I also have wanted to spend more time on like the personal life stuff, you know, I want to take a step back to, you know, do more like volunteering or, you know, I’ve considered like looking into like teaching.

[00:42:15] Nycole Hampton: I think that would be amazing. It leans into how much I love teaching and challenging people. So, you know, I think that there are so many ways to look at a career and nothing is right or wrong. And I think that sometimes. People, you know, look at women and have like expectations and it’s so hard. Like we have to want this or we can’t want this is probably something that we hear more.

[00:42:36] Nycole Hampton: Like we can’t show up in these rooms or we can’t sit at these tables. And I think that we’re proving that that’s not correct. Like we can be everywhere. So yeah, that always. 

[00:42:46] Jessy Grossman: Come naturally to you, like sort of like saying, like, I belong in this room. I belong at this table. I’m going to sit down.

[00:42:53] Jessy Grossman: Or is that something that you’ve sort of had to like build that muscle over time? 

[00:42:56] Nycole Hampton: You know, I think that I’ve always [00:43:00] had like that level of confidence, even from a young age, but what I will say. Is that even knowing I belong in the rooms and like being in the rooms and then like still being able to kind of be ready or be prepared, especially when I was younger and like, make sure that you’re like living up to what other people in that same room, like want from you.

[00:43:20] Nycole Hampton: I feel like you learn that over time like you get comfortable. Like I immediately was like, I’m in this room, but then the confidence, like continued to kind of like build over time. And I think that’s what people should do. Like, don’t be afraid, and don’t be afraid to speak up. I’m one of those people that I’m very thoughtful in the things that I say in a meeting and a room.

[00:43:40] Nycole Hampton: Like I won’t like to speak up on every single point, even if I have a thought, I’ll really kind of sit back, kind of be a little bit like analytical about it and think like, okay, is this. What is this adding? Is this the right thing to challenge? Is this the right idea or time to talk about this opportunity or should I, you know, talk about this idea later with this [00:44:00] person because it might need more fleshing out and we can kind of come together?

[00:44:03] Nycole Hampton: So it’s being intentional with how you show up in a room. I think that’s what you learn over time, like, how can I be the best person? Something I heard was really funny when I first got to the agency. Many years ago, someone said the loudest person in the room is the one that everyone thinks knows the most or is the smartest.

[00:44:22] Nycole Hampton: And I never believed that and did not agree with that because there’ll be people in rooms that are constantly talking and you’re like. What are you talking about? Or like, why do we need to know this? And it’s like, I always think people that are very intentional in how they show up, like show up best and like are just such, you know, leaders and it works well.

[00:44:43] Nycole Hampton: So 

[00:44:43] Jessy Grossman: it’s so interesting. You talk about that. Are you familiar with disc profiles? Yeah. You are. Do you, have you ever taken the test and like, do you happen to know what letters 

[00:44:52] Nycole Hampton: you are? I have taken it. It was a couple of years ago though. I am trying to remember what they were. I don’t remember the letters.

[00:44:59] Nycole Hampton: [00:45:00] I do remember I was like not shocked at all because it was like a very strong personality, like a leader. That’s probably 

[00:45:07] Jessy Grossman: a D. I would assume that you’re a D and then like the analysis part, you’re like, I, you know, I sit back and analyze either a C or an S like S is like the stable one. And C is conscientious and analytical.

[00:45:21] Jessy Grossman: One of those, I would be so curious which one you are, but like talking about, you know, being in a room and on teams where naturally people fall into different situations. roles, right? And so perhaps you have the one who’s like the leader, the one who is like in the room at the meeting and maybe like the most boisterous.

[00:45:40] Jessy Grossman: But if you like truly learn about people and their personalities and how they show up and what they need to feel fulfilled, special, loved, whatever it is appreciated. It’s Fascinating. Because some of the things that might have felt so obvious, [00:46:00] as you said, you know, this person that you know is like, most people think that like the person that’s the loudest is just the one that’s the most knowledgeable.

[00:46:05] Jessy Grossman: But once you like to learn about that stuff, like especially with like disk profiling, for example, like. You learn that like it just throws it like tosses it on his head. Like it’s not quite what you think 

[00:46:17] Nycole Hampton: it is, you know? Yeah, that’s it. Yeah. It’s always interesting to kind of take some of those tests and learn more about yourself too.

[00:46:24] Nycole Hampton: And it’s fun when you do it with colleagues. So then you can kind of say like, okay, like that makes sense. Like you learn something more about the people you work with. Yeah, 

[00:46:35] Jessy Grossman: totally. It’s just like it unlocks It’s how you interact with people that we’re with, you know, all day, every day. It’s like really fascinating.

[00:46:42] Jessy Grossman: So yeah, I, I just appreciate the heck out of that so much. So I guess similarly, you know, you talked about a few things that you’ve learned certainly like throughout your career. I think I’m curious like some people are like No regrets. Would never do anything differently and perhaps that’s your answer, but like, I’m curious, like [00:47:00] throughout your career, beyond what you’ve learned, would you do anything differently?

[00:47:06] Nycole Hampton: Yeah, I mean, great question. I think that I probably would have worked at larger brands much earlier and the funny reason why is. equity. I think so many people were smart and liked getting into brands earlier because those people are like set up much farther in advance for life than I am. And I think a lot of people don’t know that don’t know.

[00:47:28] Nycole Hampton: Like if you go to like some big brands or tech brands, like that might be part of your package. That’s not happening obviously at agencies or at nonprofits and things of that nature. So from a financial perspective, I think that would have been a nice thing to jump into earlier in my career, but Honestly, like one of the things I was telling someone when I was younger, I used to always have this thing that I said to myself, I was like, I don’t want to be 40 someday and regret that I didn’t try all of these different things, which is [00:48:00] hilarious because now I’m over 40, I’m 41.

[00:48:02] Nycole Hampton: So I look back and I’m like, you know what, like, I do appreciate that I had that feeling because I worked in a lot of different industries, which made me incredibly flexible. I think about like how to talk to consumers in such different ways, like how to reach them instead of like agency where a lot of times you might get stuck in like very specific, you might be in, you know, beauty, your entire like agency life or CPG or whatever.

[00:48:30] Nycole Hampton: So you’re thinking in a bit more specific way. So I don’t know, I value that. I did all the things and made some mistakes and then tried new things. I think that just makes you like stronger and better. So 

[00:48:46] Jessy Grossman: yeah. That’s it. But I appreciate the one thing that you say you would have might have done a little, right?

[00:48:52] Jessy Grossman: And I don’t think enough people talk about that. I will say what’s interesting. I like. I’ve been at, I have worked at [00:49:00] zero companies that have offered me equity, but I got a job offer at one company that did offer me equity and it wasn’t a brand. It was an agency actually, but it wasn’t like it wasn’t one of the old-school traditional agencies, right?

[00:49:12] Jessy Grossman: So maybe that’s like a more modern approach. An approach that some agencies are taking, but it’s certainly more common. Yeah. With like in-house working at a brand. And I appreciate the heck outta you bringing that up because I love talking about money and I don’t think women talk enough about it. Yeah. And I think that like saving for retirement and hopefully retiring earlier than later, you know, or at least having the choice.

[00:49:35] Jessy Grossman: Right. It’s like one thing to have to retire later. It’s one thing to, but it’s another thing to choose to retire later because you just start loving what you’re doing. You’re feeling good and that’s your choice. I posted something in slack today and we’ll see how people respond to it about stocks to invest in, you know, like let’s share in for me, I’m like, no way, shape or form is this a financial advice, you know, like this is the money [00:50:00] channel and slack, like that hard stop.

[00:50:03] Jessy Grossman: Yeah. You know what all of that means? But like, I just, I hope that more women talk about money and finances and you know, how it relates to businesses, exactly what you just said, which is like, you can look for roles that not just offer you a paycheck, they’re offering you equity in a company that you’re contributing to 40 plus hours a week.

[00:50:24] Jessy Grossman: So wouldn’t that be nice to have more than just. The paycheck, but you’re investing in something 

[00:50:29] Nycole Hampton: bigger. Yeah. And I, you know, I think it’s important, like what you’re doing with sharing salaries through, you know, kind of whim, like social, like you said, like we’ve got to talk about this stuff more and you know what, you don’t have to talk about every aspect like you don’t have to, if you’re not comfortable, share your salary, because I do think sometimes as you get older, that can be like challenging.

[00:50:48] Nycole Hampton: I mean, really at any age, honestly, it can be challenging because then you’re like. Comparing. And if you’re not like ready to move to the next thing, like all of a sudden, does that put you in like a situation where you’re like unhappy [00:51:00] or there’s a, a million things that could go wrong with talking about money, but there’s also way, there’s probably way more things that could go right.

[00:51:09] Nycole Hampton: Because you, you can understand your worth. If you’re not getting paid enough, you’ve got to think about maybe what’s next or like, what do you do about that? Similarly, maybe someone that you just told your salary realize they better get a promotion soon or go to the next company, but it’s just going to help us, I think.

[00:51:26] Nycole Hampton: be better and get closer to people that are, that are making more doing the same things and just make this industry like truly whole and just women as professionals. I think knowledge is power. 

[00:51:38] Jessy Grossman: You don’t have to do anything with it, but to know and just to know what’s out there and to know what other people are making.

[00:51:45] Jessy Grossman: And you know, it’s even beyond the salary itself, right? It’s like, are you getting. Equity. Oh my God. I didn’t even know that was a thing. I am sure that many, many people who are listening to this conversation didn’t even know that that was a possibility until you just said it. [00:52:00] So for that reason alone, it’s proof.

[00:52:02] Jessy Grossman: I just think that like the more Disknowledge is power. I’m curious too. So we talked a little about like the challenges earlier that brands are facing. What are you hearing recently about like maybe challenges that creators are facing? I think that you’re privy to so many creators that you’re working with.

[00:52:21] Jessy Grossman: Where do you think they struggle 

[00:52:22] Nycole Hampton: these days? Yeah, I mean, it goes a little bit back to the money part. I think a lot of creators don’t necessarily know, like, how to do it properly. Value myself. Like there’s no formula that’s like plug in your views and plug in your, you know, engagement and like, here’s how valuable you are to a brand.

[00:52:39] Nycole Hampton: So it’s like, how do you determine your value and what you bring to a program and what you’re going to deliver? And I think that’s, it’s still just such a huge challenge. You know, I think there’s another, there’s a lot of like competition. And I think that’s like a big thing that people are. Like, you know, kind of challenged with and kind of like working around and figuring it out is [00:53:00] let’s say you’ve been a creator for a really long time and you’re used to like the consistent brand deals.

[00:53:05] Nycole Hampton: You’re used to just like being consistent. Your community loves you. It’s just, it’s Great. But all of a sudden there’s tons of other people in the mix who, you know, maybe grew massively cause they have TikTok or something, or, you know, are doing something kind of similar. So how do you continue to stand out when maybe you started to kind of feel comfortable and then also assess is your value is now the same if you’re not like one of them?

[00:53:31] Nycole Hampton: You’re not like a hundred of that type of person, but you’re one of like several thousand of those types of influencers. So really just like understanding where you are in the space and continuing to just like build for you and your community, I think is. You know, hopefully, what people will come out and continue to shine and do is just still focusing on that, but I do think kind of the fact that there’s no barrier to entry to be a creator has is [00:54:00] challenging like people are always thinking about how to do I.

[00:54:03] Nycole Hampton: keep up. I feel like I’ve seen a lot more like pods and suspicious engagement again. So I think that comes from people kind of being like, Oh gosh, like how do I like either keep up or how do I make sure I like to stay like where I’ve always been? So ultimately like just be you. And I think that, you know, while engagement.

[00:54:24] Nycole Hampton: Views, all of that stuff matters, like quality of story and content. Like maybe it’s maybe you move away from just being able to offer a piece of content that’s going to do well. Maybe you can do more, maybe you’re building more for this brand. Like maybe you’re creating more content. building a broader partnership, like just an evolving understanding of your value and how you can even do more like challenge yourself to what’s the next level of your business as a creator.

[00:54:53] Jessy Grossman: And that’s like the perfect place to end this conversation because we started talking about challenges and, you know, challenging ourselves and the creators that we [00:55:00] work with, the brand as a whole, but challenging ourselves, especially like creators. I just think that we all like it. All of us, not just creators, certainly not just creators, but like marketers to, like, I hope for all of us that we challenge ourselves, it’ll just uplift the industry in general and like not rest on our laurels.

[00:55:16] Jessy Grossman: I think that like we were the golden goose for the longest time where it’s like the shiny new thing. And like, we’re having all the success and people are moving away from traditional advertising and television and stuff like that. But then you get to a point where like. But what’s next, like, but then what’s next, you can’t like rest on that.

[00:55:34] Jessy Grossman: And I just think that you know, people get comfortable naturally. So, and I think it would just really benefit everybody to like to continue to challenge each other, challenge ourselves and like, see what we can all do together. I have a feeling that our audience is definitely going to want to reach out and touch base.

[00:55:52] Jessy Grossman: I will mention also that Nicole is part of our mentorship program. And so a lot of our members have already like have that one-on-one [00:56:00] mentorship, you know, time with you and said wonderful things. So if you are a member, like definitely take Nicole up on that. It’s. Super generous for you to offer that on such a regular basis.

[00:56:09] Jessy Grossman: And of course, if they’re members, they can chat with you in Slack and say, hi, but you know, some people are just tuning in for the first time, people who aren’t part of the membership. So what’s the best way for those folks to reach out if they want to connect 

[00:56:19] Nycole Hampton: with you? Yeah, I would say LinkedIn for sure.

[00:56:22] Nycole Hampton: And then I also love threads. I know it’s a, you know, some people love it and they don’t right now, but I’m going all in on spending my extra time on threads. So you can find me there. Nicole Hampton. Full name. Perfect. 

[00:56:34] Jessy Grossman: And we will totally link to that in the show notes. Any parting words? Because it’s been nice chatting with you.

[00:56:39] Nycole Hampton: Yeah, I know. This is so great. I mean, I just, you know, I think. The creator economy, influencer marketing is incredible and it’s continuing to change so much, which is so exciting and it’s so nice to kind of see communities coming together. I think we just have to keep doing that more like having conversations with other people that are doing similar work or completely different work with influencer marketing.[00:57:00] 

[00:57:00] Nycole Hampton: We’re just going to keep getting better as an industry and pulling it forward. The more we do that. 

[00:57:04] Jessy Grossman: I love that. We got to end on that note because that’s the best note to end on. Thank you so, so much. And for all of you guys listening, thank you guys so much as well. And we will see you all next week. Bye, guys.

[00:57:14] Jessy Grossman: Thank you. 

[00:57:15] Nycole Hampton: If you enjoyed this episode, 

[00:57:17] Jessy Grossman: we gotta have you back. Check out our website for more ways to get involved, including all the information you need about joining our collective. You can check out all the information at iamwiim. com. Leave us a review, or a rating, but the most important thing that we can ask you to do is.

[00:57:34] Jessy Grossman: To share this podcast. Thanks for listening. 

[00:57:37] Nycole Hampton: Tune in next week.