Pitching Partnerships

[00:00:00] Nicole Kasper: So with our team members, we emphasize mental health. That’s a big thing for us just making sure that we’re supporting everybody in their mental health. They have a good work-life balance, but they feel supported and we have like an honest and transparent environment.

[00:00:21] Jessy Grossman: Hey guys, welcome to the party. I’m excited to be back with another interview episode. I just finished recording. You’ve got Nicole Kasper of Odyssey Entertainment Group on the show today. She’s a friend of mine. I saw her, her business partner, just like, A couple of weeks ago here in New York. And so I was very excited to get her on the podcast today.

[00:00:44] Jessy Grossman: She’s got a cool background in music. She’s based in Nashville. We talk about how it is to work with a business partner, to grow a company from scratch, and the best way to pitch creators. How are we signing creators? What criteria are we looking for? And how do we hire a team? So it’s a women-led.

[00:01:05] Jessy Grossman: Influencer and Artist Management Company. As I mentioned, they’re based in Nashville, Tennessee. It was co-founded by Nicole, who’s on today, and Paige Kosinski back in February of 2021. The company has grown a ton and has nine full-time team members, and they manage over 50 exclusive creators. And of course, a pretty short period.

[00:01:28] Jessy Grossman: They’ve grown to that extent, which is huge. They have a focus on innovation and excellence, and they’ve successfully executed over 2000 campaigns since the beginning. So this is a group that Is doing it and they have incredible conversion rates we talk about in terms of outbound pitching. So we get into that today as well.

[00:01:53] Jessy Grossman: This was a good conversation. So I’m excited for you guys to listen. And towards the end of the conversation, we’re recording when the House passed legislation for either TikTok to sell their company to a U. S. entity or the U. S. is going to ban the app. So we found that out kind of life while we were recording.

[00:02:21] Jessy Grossman: It was very fresh. So curious to hear what you guys think. Think about that. I hear a lot of voices talking about it, but TikTok is amplifying the voices of the younger generation. How could they ever remove this app? And there are so many influencers and related companies who make a livelihood. Their entire livelihood is based on the existence of this app.

[00:02:43] Jessy Grossman: Well, what I don’t hear anybody really in the influencer marketing industry talking about are the real concerns. Why it’s going to be potentially banned in the first place, which is security, national security. I don’t have the answers for all of it. I’m like, not well-versed enough to like. Give you the ins and outs of what that looks like, but I understand the concern and I think that it’s a very legitimate concern.

[00:03:14] Jessy Grossman: And so I would just argue and just say that if you’re advocating for creators on TikTok and that’s your main argument, then fantastic and shout it from the rooftops. I would also implore you to additionally have all of the information in terms of the counterargument, right? Like I want everyone to be knowledgeable, more knowledgeable than me at this point, I’m going to go and do a bunch of research after we record this about what is the real fear.

[00:03:45] Jessy Grossman: I know enough to say that it’s all about security and where the data is going. If I am correct, I think that there are laws in China that allow information from Chinese-owned companies to get to the government and have government oversight. And that is just something that like the U S government thinks is unacceptable.

[00:04:08] Jessy Grossman: And so I’m not someone that thinks like the government should interfere with a lot of things. But I do think that oversight is good. I don’t think that TikTok is going anywhere. I just think that this is sort of forcing the hand of a giant company that the U. S. doesn’t own. And they don’t like that. You know, like I was talking to somebody earlier.

[00:04:34] Jessy Grossman: I was like if you own TikTok, which in its heyday, like right now with all of its success, would you? Want to sell it if you were sort of being forced to no way? Of course not. So everyone’s just pushing limits to see how far they can get. And I have a feeling that like, there’s going to be new rules in place and everyone’s going to come to a compromise here because I don’t see TikTok.

[00:05:01] Jessy Grossman: They’re not going to lose out on the entire us market. They’re having their hand forced and. It’ll just be interesting to see what comes of it, but no, I don’t think TikTok is going away. You heard it here first. That’s my opinion. So I’m going on the record to say that we’ll see what happens in the next six months as they’re going down this.

[00:05:21] Jessy Grossman: this path. So I’m excited for you guys to listen to this episode though. It’s all about talent management. Have a wonderful time listening. Do share this episode if there are other managers who you are friendly with, or colleagues with, that you think would benefit from listening. It’s a good one.

[00:05:37] Jessy Grossman: So without further ado, this is Nicole Casper.

[00:05:43] Jessy Grossman: This show is sponsored by Women in Influencer Marketing, better known as WIM, the best online community for the creator economy. You will meet fellow influencer marketers, you’ll meet brands, you’ll meet talent agencies to talk shop, get hired, and even find a mentor. When you become a member, do not forget to subscribe.

[00:06:04] Jessy Grossman: Check out all of our incredible resources. For example, 

[00:06:07] Nicole Kasper: we have dozens of masterclasses 

[00:06:09] Jessy Grossman: from the top voices, TikTok, YouTube, award-winning agencies, and women who are paving the way for us all. So if you want the chance to network with a who’s who in influencer marketing and check out what it takes to become a member, make more money and have fun doing it.

[00:06:28] Jessy Grossman: Visit IamWim. com slash join. That’s I A M W I M. I, I am. com slash join today. And I so look forward to seeing you more around the community. So I feel like this was a little overdue. I’ve been wanting to have you on for a while. And just like, I mean, I just love when we get to catch up, but also it’ll be fun to just talk about industry stuff and just like, I don’t know, have you.

[00:06:57] Jessy Grossman: Share more about yourself so I can learn, our audience can learn and all that good stuff, but first and foremost, welcome to the Wynn podcast. How are you today, Nicole? 

[00:07:09] Nicole Kasper: I’m doing great. I’m doing great. I’m here in Nashville, Tennessee, and it is a lovely day here. I’m loving that it’s turning to spring finally.

[00:07:19] Nicole Kasper: Thanks again. 

[00:07:21] Jessy Grossman: Nashville is awesome. And I feel like I only went there for the very first time recently, but for those listening who are like, Oh, everything is in LA or New York, you know, like give them the lowdown of Nashville and why it’s awesome. 

[00:07:39] Nicole Kasper: It’s like legit. So Nashville, I feel like really became like a hot place to move when the show Nashville came out.

[00:07:47] Nicole Kasper: I don’t know if you ever saw that, but that was probably like 2012, 2013. It was like, am 

[00:07:53] Jessy Grossman: I off? That was, yeah, it 

[00:07:55] Nicole Kasper: was, it a musical TV show? Yes. It had Hayden Panettiere and Connie Britton, and it was about, you know, the music industry here. It was very glamorized. And I remember watching that when I was in college and being like, Oh my gosh, I got to move there.

[00:08:08] Nicole Kasper: So I remember that that did lead to so many people moving to Nashville. What I love about Nashville is it has everything that you want in a big city, and it still feels like a small town. Like, I can get from one end of the city to the other in 15 minutes. It’s still more affordable than so many of these other big cities.

[00:08:27] Nicole Kasper: Like, I was able to buy a house in 2019, which being in my 20s at that time, like, People don’t usually buy houses in their twenties anymore because of how expensive it is. So the lifestyle here is just phenomenal and we have great food. It’s kind of a melting pot of people moving from all over here, which I love too,

[00:08:49] Nicole Kasper: You’ve got the countryside and we are surrounded by so many different states. I think we’ve got, I want to say it’s like seven states or something that you can you’re bordering. So I can drive to the beach in like six and a half, seven hours, and go to Chicago. I can go to North Carolina, South Carolina, like Memphis, Tennessee is awesome.

[00:09:10] Nicole Kasper: It’s really like a hub for being able to travel. I’ve also heard 

[00:09:15] Jessy Grossman: like, I have a friend who lives in a different part of the country, but in Colorado. Right. And like, so for her perspective, she’s like, I love it because I can get anywhere on a flight so much faster than most people. Cause you’re like in between a bunch of places too.

[00:09:28] Jessy Grossman: So I feel like it makes traveling better, but like also just, I don’t know, Nashville is a cool city. I’ve heard things for years and I was like very curious about it. We went for like the shortest little. spontaneous trip, but I loved it. And we like it when we’re recording this, we just recently hosted our first event in Nashville.

[00:09:51] Jessy Grossman: And I was like, I mean, I’m here to support, but like, I don’t know how many people would come. Like our network was pretty small. And like, that’s why we have you and Paige and Tiffany as our ambassadors, because I mean, how many people do you think were at that event? It was like over a hundred. I 

[00:10:07] Nicole Kasper: think it had to be about 150.

[00:10:09] Nicole Kasper: It was packed. And I think I think a lot of the people that attended were influencers. So that was pretty neat to see how many talents there are. Here in Nashville, and it’s there were quite a few different, like new managers we met who were like, I’m launching a company and I just launched a company and I’d love to, like, learn from you guys.

[00:10:29] Nicole Kasper: And so having the ability to connect and find out about when I think was super helpful and exciting for people to feel like, oh, my gosh, This is a hub now. This is awesome. 

[00:10:40] Jessy Grossman: Okay. We’ve established that Nashville is a place to check out, but you’re not originally from there. And so I think that’s a great place to start.

[00:10:49] Jessy Grossman: Like if you could share just like a little bit about your background, like how exactly you ended up in Nashville. I know you like briefly touched on that. Like. How’d you grow up? Where’d you grow up? And what brought you to work in influencer marketing in the first place? 

[00:11:04] Nicole Kasper: Yes. So I am originally from California from an area called Monterey, like the Salinas area.

[00:11:10] Nicole Kasper: So two hours south of San Francisco, my family is predominantly in the agriculture business. It’s Salinas, California, which is technically what my address is. It is known as the salad bowl capital of the world. Um, which is, its flame to fame. And so growing up in the agriculture community, that’s what my dad did.

[00:11:32] Nicole Kasper: And he still does. And my brother works for my dad. Now they export produce overseas, internationally from our town and different places. Also, I grew up listening to country music. Like that was. It’s really like the main genre I listened to all growing up, thanks to my mother. And I was obsessed with Leanne Rimes and Patsy Cline.

[00:11:52] Nicole Kasper: And I just really like, I knew that country music was ultimately the best place to experience country music and pursue it. If you want to be an artist is in Nashville, right? So I fell in love with Nashville at such a young age. I ended up. Going to Nashville for the first time with my mom as a graduation gift for high school.

[00:12:12] Nicole Kasper: We went to CMA Fest, which is the country music festival of the year here in Nashville. And I was obsessed. I loved the accents. I loved the food. People were so friendly, just that Southern hospitality and the music industry here were just booming, right? So fell in love with Nashville. I wanted to be a country music singer myself.

[00:12:33] Nicole Kasper: I wished. on every birthday cake every year to be a famous country singer. Like I was obsessed. I wanted to be the next Leanne Rimes and did all the like competition, sang the national anthem for the rodeo, the jazz festival, all this stuff. Well, I ended up going to UCLA and I ended up in the music department, but on the business side.

[00:12:53] Nicole Kasper: And I was still doing music. I ended up launching a new acapella group there. So I was very into, I lived pitch perfect. It was co-ed and it was a fun group, Residence Acapella. So I launched that group, which I feel was kind of a gateway to me becoming an entrepreneur, honestly, like starting something and it’s continuing.

[00:13:11] Nicole Kasper: They’re competing like they’re one of the top groups on campus, which they’ve got like nine groups on campus at UCLA. They take acapella very seriously. So did that my junior, and senior years. I was in a band. I came to Nashville a few different times, including my junior year. I came here for the summer. Like I think it was from August to September.

[00:13:31] Nicole Kasper: And I asked, I wanted to come here instead of doing like a study abroad trip. Like so many of my friends did in college. I was like, my study abroad is going to be in Nashville. So I ended up interning at this company called ASCAP and then another company called Q Prime. So, talent management was Q’s prime.

[00:13:50] Nicole Kasper: They have like, Eric Church. They had the black keys, some amazing artists, and then the cap is a performance rights organization. So they help collect. The money PROs. So it’s a very important part of the business to learn. So came here for eight weeks. Absolutely love Nashville was like, I am moving here when I graduate.

[00:14:11] Nicole Kasper: And then my stage fright kept getting worse and worse as I was getting older. Like when I would perform, I would get. So anxious. I would stay up all night feeling sick to my stomach. I remember when I played some of the bars downtown in Nashville with my mom, when we came out here one year I laid in bed and was having a full-blown panic attack like I couldn’t perform, it was ridiculous.

[00:14:35] Nicole Kasper: And I just realized, I’m like, I can’t do this. Like performing is the most important thing. And there was just a switch for me. I was like, I don’t think I want to be on that side. I want to be on the business side. So I ended up taking this class in my junior year of college. It was a songwriting one on one class, I think.

[00:14:53] Nicole Kasper: And they had this amazing guest speaker who came in. His name was John Platt and he worked at EMI at the time and on the music publishing side, and he talked about something called A& R. A& R is, it stands for artists in the repertoire. They’re the people at record labels and publishing companies that look for new talent.

[00:15:12] Nicole Kasper: They’re kind of like, it feels very, it sounds very glamorous. So they’re the people that are going to the clubs and scouting new talent and bringing them in for label. You know, opportunities to try and sign them. And then they’re also looking for songs for them too. They help with the recording process.

[00:15:27] Nicole Kasper: And I was like, that is what I want to do. Right. So I was determined to figure out how I could do that. And then I ended up being very interested in working on the record label side, not only in A& R but also my dream was to work at a company called Big Machine Records. They had Taylor Swift at that time.

[00:15:45] Nicole Kasper: This was like 2014. Scott Borchetta was the head of the company and he was an icon. He was. You know, a big part of the show, Nashville, as far as like, I think they owned the soundtrack or there was something there that they were a part of, they had American Idol. He was like a guest judge or something on American Idol at one point, they had the hottest acts in country music.

[00:16:08] Nicole Kasper: It was like Thomas Rhett, Florida Georgia line, they were blowing up. And he, it seemed like a very fast-paced kind of LA-type label in Nashville. Which I liked coming from California. I was just very impressed by the whole thing. So I’m like, I have to work there and I have to do A& R. So I ended up, I think it was my senior year.

[00:16:25] Nicole Kasper: Sorry. I’m going way too into-depth probably on this. No, 

[00:16:28] Jessy Grossman: no, this is, I’m enjoying it. No, 

[00:16:29] Nicole Kasper: please go on. It’s a random story. So senior year, right? So I interned at Universal for about two years in college doing marketing. So college marketing. And I loved that did enjoy that. And then I did like 12 different internships throughout college.

[00:16:48] Nicole Kasper: Cause I was very type like I’ve got to do what I can to get a job. Cause I knew how competitive it was. And if moving to Nashville, I was not going to be going to Belmont, which is where a lot of the kids that get music industry jobs go. So I felt like I was kind of an outsider and I needed to do what I could to stand out.

[00:17:06] Nicole Kasper: So went crazy with the internships. It was my senior year and. I was interviewing for different jobs, um, trying to get a job ahead of time, which I remember people kept telling me, like, you just got to move and be present to win. Like, you’re not going to get a job ahead of time. That’s impossible. I was still going to try and do it.

[00:17:26] Nicole Kasper: They put me through some recruiter to help with getting a job at Big Machine. I think I hit up everybody on LinkedIn possible who worked there like a crazy person. So very persistent, which I will say like Being on the other side of things now looking to hire people as often as we are, I wish people were more persistent because it would help them rise to the top.

[00:17:47] Nicole Kasper: I was very persistent. So I ended up having this opportunity for this music management company, which I will not name. They had me fly out to interview. It was to work for a very large country music artist at the time. And I came out to like this shadowing all day long. It was going to be a lot of email dictation from the head of the company met with everybody on the team.

[00:18:12] Nicole Kasper: And then I went and the woman that was working through the hiring process with me, the recruiter, she told me that it was very important that I moved to Nashville as soon as possible. I was the number one candidate for the job. But I needed to be present. So I was supposed to go to Europe with my three best friends.

[00:18:29] Nicole Kasper: I already had my tickets booked. We were going to travel across Europe, do the whole thing, you know, like the college graduation trip. And I remember I was like. I’m sorry, girls. Like, I got to cancel. I got to move to Nashville. I can’t miss out on this opportunity. Like I’m a shoo-in, it sounds like. So I sent the lady a message and was like, I canceled my trip.

[00:18:48] Nicole Kasper: I’m moving to Nashville. I’m getting there early. And I kid you not like I moved cause I wasn’t supposed to move into my apartment complex until August. I ended up moving here a month and a half earlier than that and was subleasing somebody’s apartment. The day before my flight, I got an email saying I didn’t get the job.

[00:19:05] Nicole Kasper: Oh, my 

[00:19:06] Jessy Grossman: God. What did that feel like? And like, like, I mean, that’s a life lesson there. What did you like? You have done anything different, though, in hindsight? 

[00:19:18] Nicole Kasper: No, right. I was gonna be even if I traveled to Europe, I would have been so focused on what I was gonna do when I got back that I probably couldn’t have fully enjoyed it.

[00:19:27] Nicole Kasper: So it is what it is. But fast forward from there, I was working a bunch of odd jobs. I was a Lyft driver. I was a hostess. I was a babysitter for a couple of families, like just trying to make it work and then interviewing like crazy. I ended up. It was a good seven months that I ended up getting a paid internship at Big Machine.

[00:19:49] Nicole Kasper: They, even though I was a graduate, they, I think they felt sorry for me at this point because I had interviewed for three different roles and it like, they went with somebody else that had more experience or already had worked there and like transferred departments. It was like one thing after another.

[00:20:02] Nicole Kasper: Right. And so the first day of my internship though, I was connected by this guy that I worked with in L.A. at Universal. He told me one of his old friends worked in A& R, a big machine, and I should go introduce myself. And this guy had also just moved from L.A. So it was perfect because we’re both kind of new to town.

[00:20:21] Nicole Kasper: He’s like crushing it in A& R, new guy. So I went and met him and, He ended up pushing to have me become his assistant. So I ended up doing A& R at Big Machine. So I got my dream job, which is pretty unheard of. I didn’t give up. How long were you there for? About two and a half years. So I was there for two and a half years.

[00:20:40] Nicole Kasper: Then I was at CAA doing music touring. I thought I wanted to be an agent and then. I ended up at a small music management publishing company with a well-known producer here and got to see the startup life without it being my own money. Honestly, it was like a startup with training wheels.

[00:20:58] Nicole Kasper: So I was the first hire. I helped build everything, you know, from getting the logo created, the website, the emails, and the furniture for the building. The artists, everything, but it was, I was an employee and Paige was my first intern who became my future business partner. And so we worked there together for about three years.

[00:21:19] Nicole Kasper: And it was during 2020 when I think we were just. I’m very thankful for my experience there. We learned a tremendous amount. It was not the way that I would want to run a company as far as the structure, the business model was not, and they weren’t going to see any return on their investment. And I think Paige and I just got to a point where we’re like, this is kind of like a sinking ship.

[00:21:42] Nicole Kasper: And during the pandemic. We were seeing the impact of social media on these music artists. It was unbelievable when you would see a dance being created to one of these songs and the artist blow up overnight. And we started reaching out to influencers to promote one of the artists that we were working with.

[00:22:02] Nicole Kasper: And just by paying them like 50, somebody would use it in a video. The direct impact on this artist’s streaming numbers was unbelievable. Just from a few TikTok videos being created and it was translating. These were true active listeners who were seeking out the song, saving it on a playlist versus what you would see with a passive playlist on Spotify, where somebody is just turning it on in their car.

[00:22:26] Nicole Kasper: And they’re not actually like, it’s not registering who the artist is. People were seeking it out. We’re like, this is so fascinating. Let’s learn more about this business. And we ended up working with a few different influencers, just trying to make extra money because the music industry pays. No bueno. Um, until you’re really, you’re very successful, but the pay gap is pretty insane.

[00:22:47] Nicole Kasper: There’s no middle class. And there is no, oh my gosh, it’s very depressing. So, you love it, right? Like when you’re in it at the time, you’re like. I’m going to make it like it’s going to happen and it’ll be all worth it. But, oh my gosh, that gets old. So we were just doing this as a side hustle, trying to manage some influencers.

[00:23:06] Nicole Kasper: And initially we’re thinking like, you know, Paige and I worked so well together. We’re very different. We’re very similar, but we’re very different. And I feel like our skills just completely complement one another. I’m so thankful for her. She’s the best. And we were like, we have to work together forever as cheesy as that is like we have to.

[00:23:25] Nicole Kasper: We just started like the perfect match. She’s like the little sister I never had and always wanted, you know? And we, like, I envisioned starting a company, but maybe when I was 40, definitely not in my twenties, I figured after I was like very successful, you know, in a department at somebody else’s company or something, but with the pandemic and what was happening with the music industry and seeing the opportunity in the creator economy and.

[00:23:53] Nicole Kasper: How many amazingly talented people there really were in the influencer space who needed help? We’re like, why don’t we give this a shot? And so we ended up building up our roster. We were looking for investors cause we didn’t have anything in savings and we didn’t know when we were going to be able to make money.

[00:24:10] Nicole Kasper: you know, make enough money to live. So we were doing investment meetings and we had a woman that we met with who was in the music industry, super successful music business, like a venture capitalist. And she was like, why are you guys going to cut anybody end on this business? You don’t need to get a side hustle.

[00:24:29] Nicole Kasper: Don’t give a piece up. A hundred percent. That was really 

[00:24:31] Jessy Grossman: good advice. It was the best advice. Yeah. And I think that, like, that’s what I’m curious about for you because startup life can be challenging and I would, I mean, in my experience at least, so much of the information that’s out there isn’t helpful, like at all.

[00:24:50] Jessy Grossman: It almost like puts you in the wrong direction or it’s almost like bad advice, at least the stuff that I was exposed to. So I’m curious, like, what was the hardest part? Of like those earliest days of starting up and what type of person do you think would thrive with, you know, starting their own 

[00:25:09] Nicole Kasper: business?

[00:25:10] Nicole Kasper: Oh gosh. I would say the challenges in the beginning were, first of all, there’s, I mean, thankfully there’s more and more tools out there. More WIM truly was a huge, huge help to us. And just finding mentors, having people to go and ask questions like, how do I price this? What agencies should we be meeting with?

[00:25:29] Nicole Kasper: What is the, just connecting the dots, right? There’s so much unknown that you’re not going to find by a Google search. So, the most valuable thing to me was PageNime. It was just, the mentors and the folks that we were able to connect with through WIM and outside of WIM. I would say the biggest struggle was figuring out when to hire and how to delegate.

[00:25:55] Nicole Kasper: When you’ve been so used to doing everything on your own and how to be a good boss, honestly, when you haven’t had good bosses in the past. So that’s a good 

[00:26:05] Jessy Grossman: point, especially coming from like the music industry. I don’t know. I come from the entertainment industry, so I guess I can only speak from that, but I can imagine there’s probably some crossover there in terms of, I don’t know if you ever watched Entourage, but like, I think of like, you know, like the Ari Golds of the world and like, that’s like what people used to aspire to be, you know, or that was just what to expect.

[00:26:28] Jessy Grossman: If you work either in entertainment, perhaps in music where like, that’s like the measure of success and treating people like that. So yeah, without. Uh, the proper person to emulate, it can, there’s definitely like a fear there. It’s like, I don’t want to repeat these bad patterns. Like I know what I went through.

[00:26:49] Jessy Grossman: I want to do better, but like, what do I, how do I, you know, I’m trained almost to like to do it in a certain way. So like, how have you navigated that? Like, do you feel like it’s still a work in progress? Do you feel like? You just had to trust your gut. Do you feel like having a business partner helps in that capacity?

[00:27:05] Jessy Grossman: Like what helped currently helps you be the type of leader you want to be? 

[00:27:11] Nicole Kasper: Yeah, I think the most important thing to me was we want Odyssey to be very successful and we do want to make. Good money, but at the end of the day, I would rather be a mildly successful company that has an amazing reputation as a good place to work, like a healthy place to work with a great company culture and where our team members feel supported because as somebody who’s had honestly, like, I know this sounds dramatic, but a lot of workplace trauma.

[00:27:40] Nicole Kasper: Through my dramatic at all. A lot of people experience that. So no, not at all. I have a lot of painful things that I went through, especially thinking back to like how naive I was when I first got, my first big job in the music industry. And I was so focused on like, my job was my identity for the longest time.

[00:27:58] Nicole Kasper: I think I got sucked into that. And when you’re in entertainment, it can feel. Like nothing else in the world matters. You’re in this little bubble and you, it’s really easy to let your ego go crazy. There’s a lot of egos around you. And at the end of the day, it’s not rocket science. You’re not saving lives, like a job is a job.

[00:28:21] Nicole Kasper: And so I think I needed a lot of the experiences that I had to humble me, help me realize that I am not my job. That my job is just a part of me. It’s something that I love to do. Um, But I have a lot more to offer the world than what I can do as an owner of a company. And so with our team members, we emphasize mental health.

[00:28:41] Nicole Kasper: That’s a big thing for us is just making sure that we’re supporting everybody in their mental health. They have a good work-life balance that they feel supported and we have like an honest and transparent environment. So trying to do everything that I can to do the opposite of what. I experienced as an employee and just being willing to listen.

[00:29:00] Nicole Kasper: And I love feedback. Like I’m somebody who thrives to hear the hard truth. And if I did something harmful or Made anybody feel any kind of way I want to know so I can work on it and learn from it. And that is so important. Well, it’s also super 

[00:29:16] Jessy Grossman: admirable that you’re taking what sounds like was a challenging experience as an employee and trying to flip it so that people working for you hopefully don’t have the opposite experience that you did.

[00:29:28] Jessy Grossman: And so I’m curious because it’s a You know, you’re talking about mental health and I feel like as a, like a co-founder, founder of a company, like there’s challenges. We like to get real on this podcast and not just talk about like the pretty moments, but also be like, it can be fucking hard to like.

[00:29:45] Jessy Grossman: Start a company, launch a company. Like you feel the highs more as the owner, but you also feel the lows 10, a hundred times more as the owner of a company, when things go awry. You talked about hiring. Like I’ve been there when, you know, people quit, you have to fire someone. Like. Things just don’t work out.

[00:30:03] Jessy Grossman: Like those are some of the toughest days, whether it’s an employee or a creator or someone that you’re doing business with, like it almost can sometimes feel as if it’s like this never-ending, like a loop where things are just continuing to be a challenge after challenge. And so I would just say like. the type of person that would thrive in a startup environment.

[00:30:26] Jessy Grossman: It’s someone who’s like really kind of loves a problem solving, not just as good at it because like you got to be good at it, but like you have to actually like enjoy solving those puzzles because you’re gonna be putting out fires, solving puzzles all the time. Quick question for you guys. How much do you love redlining agreements?

[00:30:46] Jessy Grossman: Yeah, me too. Let me tell you about our latest sponsor Caveat. So Caveat, with a K, is an AI-powered contracting platform that simplifies and automates your contracts. It’ll hugely improve the way that you review partnership agreements. So if you’re a media company an entertainment company or a management firm, it’s a must-have tool.

[00:31:13] Jessy Grossman: Look, sometimes you do need to hire a lawyer, an expensive lawyer nonetheless, to work on an agreement because it’s over a certain threshold, and a good lawyer can be invaluable. But what about all those other partnerships, those other things that you can do? Other contracts that are for 5, 000, even like 1, 000.

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[00:32:01] Jessy Grossman: So head to our website, it’s I am whim. com slash caveat for a completely free trial. That’s I a m w i i m. com slash k a v e a t. I hope you guys love it as much as I do, but I’m curious in terms of the mental health capacity, what’s been your experience? Experience as a founder and managing your mental health as you have the ups and downs of a business.

[00:32:30] Nicole Kasper: Yeah, that’s a great question. It’s a mix of things. I think for me, it’s figuring out what are those activities that I can do for my mental health after work. So whether it’s going and doing a Pilates class or going for walks, going for a walk in the morning to like set my day out on the right tone, that’s helpful.

[00:32:50] Nicole Kasper: Spending time with people outside of entertainment, most, all my friends are outside of entertainment, so they can keep me grounded and tell me about their life as an accountant or, you know what I mean? It brings me back to the reality that I’m not saving the world here. That is helpful. And I think therapy is amazing.

[00:33:11] Nicole Kasper: Like that’s been a huge part. For me and my life then having those trusted mentors that you can vent to also write like people that you feel get it are in the trenches too. And they’ve had similar experiences because they’ve been doing it for longer and they can talk you off the ledge when you’re feeling.

[00:33:28] Nicole Kasper: Stressed and upset because you can have some low lows. And the biggest thing for me also has been having an amazing business partner. I know there are a lot of people who have done this without business partners and they do an amazing job. I would never want to do this without a business partner though, because there are so many situations where.

[00:33:47] Nicole Kasper: Paige and I were pretty much always on the same page. It’s pretty incredible. That being said, I’m a little bit more of a risk-taker. I’m more impulsive. She’s more logical. And I think strategic she’s, she moves slower. She’s like, take a deep breath. Let’s not do that. And I’m like, okay. Let’s do it now.

[00:34:06] Nicole Kasper: So I’m like, yeah, so I think I’m good for her in that. She needs to be pushed a little bit to make these jumps. And like, I’m a big idea person. And then she’s super good for me because I don’t think we would be where we’re at by any means. I don’t, we would have a different company name. We would, the branding, the whole thing would be different.

[00:34:26] Nicole Kasper: So thank you, Paige, for being the yin to my yang. But I think when it comes to employee conversations or when we’ve had to let go of somebody or somebody has quit those meetings, like. When we’re able to debrief after and be like, was I too harsh? Well, how was that for you? Like, and kind of having that moment to like, talk each other down has been extremely valuable.

[00:34:51] Nicole Kasper: Well, you 

[00:34:51] Jessy Grossman: have someone to check you on things too, you know, cause I can imagine that like being in a room with somebody and having a tough conversation, whatever the topic is, to be able to leave that and be like, what was your experience of the last time? 10 minutes. What did you observe? Because it’s hard.

[00:35:09] Jessy Grossman: Like if you’re the one in the most heightened like position where maybe you’re the one firing somewhere, you’re the one just like directly involved in it. It’s just a very different experience than if someone’s sort of observing or there to support or something like that. Like they can just have a more objective objective view of it.

[00:35:29] Jessy Grossman: And yeah, I can, like, look, I had the opposite experience of you guys. Like, I had business partners where, like, shit hit the fan. It was the worst experience ever. And talking about, like, trauma, it’s like, I am legitimate, like, I fear ever going into business with somebody again because I think it’s the exact opposite experience.

[00:35:51] Jessy Grossman: So it’s, it’s a good thing to hear your experience though. You have the ideal experience. Like that’s incredible. That’s amazing to be able to have the yin to your yang, like you said. So in terms of like building out. The team, you know, I think that a lot of certainly members of WHM huge chunk of our membership are talent managers and a lot of them are solopreneurs and sort of like at the precipice of like, do I hire, do I get a business partner?

[00:36:21] Jessy Grossman: Do I get an investor? Like, how do I grow? And most managers, you know, they see all this money coming in and all this opportunity and. You know, rightfully so they get excited to grow. But I think the question as any entrepreneur is like, When to grow, how to grow and to be strategic about it because it could also, you know, you can make the wrong moves and deplete funds or resources and head in the wrong direction.

[00:36:51] Jessy Grossman: So I’d love for us to like, Dig into building your team like a, do you think that you’re good at that sort of identifying talent to bring in training them and like putting them in the right position in the company? And what’s made the biggest difference in your experience with like building a solid 

[00:37:13] Nicole Kasper: team?

[00:37:14] Nicole Kasper: Yeah. So I would say that we’re both getting a lot better at it in the beginning. We’re kind of on round two of Odyssey employees, to be honest, we’re on. Honestly, 2. 0, I would like to say with our team members, we have a completely different team than we did that first year and a half, two years. And that’s because when we first started transparently, we started, you know, with the budget that we had, we didn’t hire too quickly.

[00:37:39] Nicole Kasper: I feel like we were very strategic. And when we hired, I think we hired our first employee about. Eight months into having launched full-time. The first eight months, Paige and I had it split where I would do all of the negotiations, kind of the sales role and the contracts, and then she would do the campaign management.

[00:37:57] Nicole Kasper: And so we had about probably 25 creators at that point before we finally brought on an employee. Our first employees though, would be partially because of budget, what we could afford were great people. You know, I had a lot of experience in internships but didn’t necessarily have full-time work experience.

[00:38:18] Nicole Kasper: So we were hiring a lot of new grads and those team members, I’m super thankful for them and the impact they made on our company. And we did have some great team members. They did not necessarily, and each situation was different, right? The majority of them, I would say, didn’t know exactly what talent management entailed.

[00:38:36] Nicole Kasper: And It is a lifestyle. And even though we do emphasize work-life balance and setting boundaries 100%, that’s so important. If you’re not comfortable with sending a campaign email for something time-sensitive at 7 pm like we’ve got a problem because somebody’s got to. And that was the biggest thing people did not necessarily know.

[00:38:55] Nicole Kasper: Is this the type of, Lifestyle that I’m willing to commit to? Is this an industry that I enjoy? Also, it’s hard to not take it personally. Sometimes talent will lash out. Sometimes talent or talent can be ungrateful. There’s a lot of things that you see being talent-facing. And so you have to have thick skin and like have that confidence in who you are and what you’re offering the talent and being able to walk away when it’s time to walk away.

[00:39:20] Nicole Kasper: And we found that with. Those team members, that was a big struggle with just people. Yeah. Not knowing exactly what they wanted to do in their career. Whereas now our team members, every single one of them is like in love with an influencer. They love what they do. They’re You know, they each have at least a year and a half, two years of experience in this space.

[00:39:43] Nicole Kasper: So while they’re all still in there like the mid to late twenties, they’ve got some work-life experience and they’re very hardworking and have great work ethic. I think as managers, the last thing we want to do is have to micromanage, but there are times when team members in the past have just not liked it, unless they have a checklist, they’re not going to do it.

[00:40:02] Nicole Kasper: They’re not going to like. Think ahead. They’re not going to do anything that they don’t have to do. They’d rather work four hours and then they’re remote and they can just get away with doing whatever. So you run into a lot of issues with that. I think remote work life is hard with a startup too because you can’t, even if we’re on teams I can see if somebody is online, I mean, there are things they can buy on Amazon to make it so their mouse is moving, so it looks like they’re online.

[00:40:27] Nicole Kasper: Yeah, man, 

[00:40:27] Jessy Grossman: you can game that system so easily these days, it’s pretty wild. But there are, like, there are, um, A lot of nuances in terms of keeping a team engaged these days, especially because most people are working remotely and people have different opinions about having face time and meeting in person.

[00:40:49] Jessy Grossman: But I think like, you know, it’s interesting cause I, it’s interesting also because you’re a co-founder and you have a business partner because I can imagine at least like the companies that I’ve worked for, like. The culture does start at the top. And so how, like, it sounds like you and Paige are fairly aligned on most things.

[00:41:10] Jessy Grossman: Are there any things that, like, what aren’t you aligned in? You have to be not, you know, on a misaligned, unaligned, whatever the word is on some things. And like, do, uh, does any of it ever, like, do you ever like interview someone you’re like, I think this person’s amazing. And she’s like, no way. Like there, have you ever had those experiences?

[00:41:28] Jessy Grossman: No, 

[00:41:30] Nicole Kasper: not with the interviews. We always know. And that’s, what’s been so cool for the longest time we would do interviews together, we would always do them right off the bat. So now we’ve got it down to like. We’ll do the final round together, but we’ll split up whatever roles we’re hiring for, like I’ll hire for one, she’ll hire for one, and then we’ll do the final together.

[00:41:49] Nicole Kasper: But it’s kind of like, I know that whoever she likes, I’m going to like too. There has never been an issue there. As far as. Things that were not aligned on, Oh, gosh, Jesse. I don’t think I have anything that I can share right now. I don’t think there’s anything I can share on this.

[00:42:03] Nicole Kasper: That’s okay. I would say, yeah, I would say truly like we are very much aligned on most everything. Maybe my desire to expand into the music industry more has been something that we’ve not seen eye to eye. You can say that she was very burnt out from the music industry specifically coming from the marketing side.

[00:42:24] Nicole Kasper: We’ve worked with quite a few artists who have been very hesitant to use social media because they don’t want to be known as influencers. They think they’re better than influencers, which is. The biggest load of crap to me because I’m like, you want to sell out an arena. That means you’re influencing people to buy tickets, to listen to your music.

[00:42:41] Nicole Kasper: You want to be an influencer. Right. So, and the opportunities that can open up for you with social media, it’s like, why would you not use this free platform to connect with people? It makes no sense to me, but she works with many different artists specifically. That was her thing with social media strategy, with our talent.

[00:42:58] Nicole Kasper: So. And she would do a marketing meeting with them and then they would not implement a single thing. They would say, Oh yes, thank you for this time. She’d spent hours with them and then they would not listen to anything. And so it is very difficult to see success in the music industry. It’s like lightning in a bottle and it can take a very long time to where you’re able to earn any commission on a music artist.

[00:43:23] Nicole Kasper: And so it is a huge gamble. Whereas with influencers, it’s like the opposite, it’s the complete opposite. You could be earning money immediately. You know, you’ve got your net 30, but besides that, like you could be doing deals the same week as you sign somebody. So there’s that instant guarantee. Right. And you don’t have that with an artist and you could spend 10 times the amount of time on one influencer as you do on an artist.

[00:43:47] Nicole Kasper: It’s just so much more work. My heart has always been in music. I think it always will be in music. That’s what brought me to Nashville. Um, And I know that, like, I have the potential to be a very successful music manager with the right artist because I will work, I will outwork anybody. And when I’m passionate and I care and I believe in somebody, like, I will do what I can to help them.

[00:44:08] Nicole Kasper: So what’s your 

[00:44:09] Jessy Grossman: process of finding new talent? And like, I used to be a manager back in the day and our, like, it was very different. I feel like it was a very different world. Like there were just way more creators who weren’t managed. I felt like they were much more probably responsive to just a cold outreach.

[00:44:29] Jessy Grossman: They were looking for managers and didn’t even necessarily know who to go to. They just needed support. I just feel like it’s a very different world right now. So like, does your whole team keep an eye out? Are there One or two people who are constantly looking for talent, how do you reach out?

[00:44:44] Jessy Grossman: Like how do you convert a talent that you guys are dying to work with to be an exclusive client 

[00:44:53] Nicole Kasper: of yours? Great question. So I would say the majority of it is people popping up on our for you page. I love all of the ads that I get because I find out all the different creators that are doing work right now.

[00:45:03] Nicole Kasper: So Paige and I, I would say for the most. Most parts have built our roster just off of cold outreach. And then we’ve had quite a few referrals where we’ve had like maybe a Canadian mom who has connected us with another one of her mom creator friends. So we’ve had the referrals and then we’ve had some people where they’ve just heard about Odyssey, which is the biggest compliment.

[00:45:25] Nicole Kasper: And they’ve reached out via our Instagram and said, Hey, like I’m looking for management. So those are kind of the three ways. However, with our team, we are encouraging everybody to be talent-searching. I think it’s one of the most fun parts of the job, honestly, to look for new folks, like to get to have this be a part of your job where you’re sitting there looking for talent on tech talk.

[00:45:44] Nicole Kasper: Like how cool is that? Right. So we have a bonus program for our team members. If they do bring in a talent who ends up. Signing with us after a three-month trial. And when we’re looking for talent, it is super important that they have high engagement. They’re consistently posting. We’re not so worried about the follower count at this point.

[00:46:04] Nicole Kasper: It’s truly more about the engagement. We want to make sure they have a high us demographic and, a high female audience. And that their niche is something that we’re seeing brands invest in. So lifestyles like that. Number one niche, but we also have niches like tech and entrepreneurs and finance, home chefs, as we’ve expanded in so many different niches, which is what makes our job so fun and every day is different because we get to work with so many different types of brands and partners.

[00:46:34] Nicole Kasper: So that’s our process. And then it’s getting on a call, sharing what we do at Odyssey, how we are. Different from other companies. Cause there are so many amazing management companies. So just sharing what we feel sets us apart, which for us would be our communication and our outbound pitching.

[00:46:52] Nicole Kasper: We did about 50 percent of our business in outbound sales last year compared to inbound. So I think that is something that sets us apart from a lot of management companies like we don’t charge a retainer for pitching. We’re not, which I think is awesome that people are making money doing that, but we feel that We would not be able to grow to what we’ve done if we weren’t doing the outbound pitches.

[00:47:14] Nicole Kasper: That’s a huge part of what we do. Can we dig 

[00:47:16] Jessy Grossman: into that a little bit? Cause like, that is a huge number. I feel like that’s like such a sore spot for a lot of managers, for a lot of creators, you know, creators will say like, Oh, this manager and company, they’re just managing my inbounds and they’re not getting me anything.

[00:47:32] Jessy Grossman: Of course, they’re negotiating the crap out of that and managing your business. But there’s a lot of. opportunity out there for outbound pitching. And so I’m 50%. I mean, that’s, that’s huge compared to what I’ve heard from several other people that’s on the higher side for sure. So let’s dig into that.

[00:47:51] Jessy Grossman: Cause I feel like a lot of people were like, I want to learn what Nicole and Paige are doing. Right. And that’s a good number. So what have you learned about pitching over the years? Like, how do you pitch? And like, what do you think is the, like, What do you attribute to that success? Those are great numbers and conversion rates.

[00:48:12] Nicole Kasper: Yeah. I think it’s extremely important and Paige and I coming from the music industry, were so used to having to beat down doors to try and get anywhere you don’t have inbound opportunities come with a new artist like you do with influencer talent. So to us, it was just like, this is what you do, right?

[00:48:30] Nicole Kasper: You’re going to do everything you can to get ahead for your talent and to raise awareness for them. Um, and so for us, I would say it’s a matter of, we have an app where we. You know, we can track all of our team members’ pitches. So we’ll have every single time a talent is onboarded into our system.

[00:48:47] Nicole Kasper: They give us a list of their dream brands. They can also submit if there’s a new brand they want to work with and they have a concept idea, they can fill out a web form and then we make sure that each team member is doing, you know, a set number of pitches a week. So there are a lot of cold pitches are warm leads though.

[00:49:02] Nicole Kasper: I would say would be with agency partners that we’ve built relationships with heavily due to whim, and then a lot of LinkedIn outreach for sure. Or maybe you’re working with them on a campaign for one of the talents they’ve reached out about. And then it’s, Hey, let’s get on a call. We’d love to make the connection and fill you in on our roster.

[00:49:20] Nicole Kasper: We get casting emails constantly. So. Agencies always looking, you know, to work with influencers that have management that are going to get them those casting suggestions right away and that we’re taking the time to explain like why they’re a fit. We’re not just sending them random people. So really being conscientious about who we’re sending them.

[00:49:40] Nicole Kasper: So we’re not wasting their time too. And how often are 

[00:49:42] Jessy Grossman: Are you following up as well? I think that’s a question. A lot of people wonder like, I don’t want to bother like 

[00:49:48] Nicole Kasper: five times. Five times. We say to our team, five times is a sweet number because most times you’re not going to hear from them. I do know there are a few agencies that are wonderful about letting us know if a campaign is closed and they will let us know if they’re interested.

[00:50:04] Nicole Kasper: So I don’t bug them because their communication is really strong, but then there’s a lot where we’re like. Especially with the cold pitches, like send it five times because you think about how many emails we get on a day-to-day basis. If somebody’s not following up, like, I’m not going to know. It’s so important.

[00:50:19] Nicole Kasper: And then there’s a lot of different platforms you can submit through now for opportunities. And then we’ve had a lot of success with standing agency meetings. Not everybody wants to do this, but we’ve got probably six different agencies. We’ll hop on a standing call with you every month. And if there’s nothing to talk about, we’ll cancel the meeting.

[00:50:37] Nicole Kasper: But usually we can at least hop on for 15 minutes and be like, here are our new signings. Like, what are you guys working on? So we’re front of mind always. And 

[00:50:45] Jessy Grossman: that’s probably the key because, you know, there are so many components of what would make this conversion rate so high, right? Part of it is what you guys are doing.

[00:50:55] Jessy Grossman: Part of it is the quote-unquote product that you’re selling, of course, which are your clients. And, you know, if they’re just, if their engagement rates are that fantastic, for example, and their content is just that good or that unique, like. Yeah, of course. It makes the pitch easier. Like you’re both just doing your jobs.

[00:51:12] Jessy Grossman: And it’s like the dream team comes together and that’s maybe why things are converting so well. And so in terms of like, we do have some creators who listen to the show and of course like their managers who would want to give their critters advice for influencers. You know, you’re talking earlier about like, it’s a lot about more for you about engagement versus the overall following.

[00:51:33] Jessy Grossman: And I know that you guys are also like, fairly focused on TikTok as well. It’s a platform that’s pretty big for you guys. So I’m curious, like what’s the best piece of advice that you would give to a creator who’s looking to build a multi-six-figure plus 

[00:51:50] Nicole Kasper: business? Yes. So I would say prioritizing TikTok, but.

[00:51:57] Nicole Kasper: Pushing to all platforms because you never know which platform is going to resonate and pop off for you. Consistency is the most important thing. Any of our talent you speak with and they were trying to grow. It was like, Posting once a day or at least, you know, three to five times a week.

[00:52:13] Nicole Kasper: So the consistency is key. I would also say if you’re wanting to work with brands, incorporating those brands organically into your content, we’ll get their attention. So we have a lot of agencies where they’ll reach out and be like, Taco Bell only wants to work with. Creators that have already talked about Taco Bell and their content.

[00:52:31] Nicole Kasper: So if you’ve already talked about Taco Bell and you see that there’s some organic traction with that post, that’s going to be very helpful. And these brands are checking. They’re looking to see who’s talking about them and what posts are getting engagement. So I highly recommend doing that organically.

[00:52:46] Nicole Kasper: And then there are other ways to build your business outside of brand deals too, right? Like, so you’ve got things like substack. So if you want to get into the blogging space and you want to earn like on paid subscribers. That’s a great way to make some money. We’re digging into that with our talent right now.

[00:53:03] Nicole Kasper: And then there’s digital products you can sell through services like Kajabi is a good one. You can build a community through Mighty Networks. You can jump into podcasting, or writing a book. We’re working on a couple of different books with our talent right now. So, yeah, I mean, don’t limit yourself just to brand deals.

[00:53:20] Nicole Kasper: Brand deals are awesome, but they can come and go, especially with your engagement as it ebbs and flows. So make sure that you’re capitalizing on the platform that you’re building to promote your own business and your brand. I love that. And 

[00:53:33] Jessy Grossman: I think that like the diversification that you’re talking about is like so key.

[00:53:38] Jessy Grossman: But also, I mean, the day that we’re recording this podcast. There happens to be like another round of legislation, you know, that’s going through me. 

[00:53:49] Nicole Kasper: Our first podcast page just sent me a message and she’s like, the House passed the bill to ban Tik Tok just a heads up. Oh, 

[00:53:55] Jessy Grossman: they did. Wow. That’s wild. I didn’t see that.

[00:54:00] Jessy Grossman: Oh, I did see that someone posted it on a whim. Holy crap. So what are your thoughts on that breaking news? 

[00:54:07] Nicole Kasper: Well, you know what, people aren’t going to just stop using social media. If TikTok is nonexistent, all of those people are going to be spending that much more time on Instagram or YouTube shorts.

[00:54:21] Nicole Kasper: So it’s just continuing to grow your following on all of these platforms. And there is so much instability in this industry, which is very scary. We just don’t know what’s to come, you know, it’s growing so much. And, I believe that influencer marketing is always going to be around. It’s just going to be changing constantly.

[00:54:38] Nicole Kasper: So you have to be agile. You have to be ready for whatever the next thing is. And that’s like, 

[00:54:43] Jessy Grossman: that’s the last, I mean, you were talking about like, what’s the advice that you would give to a creator about being successful? I feel like that’s the advice to everyone. Any business owner, and of course, creators are business owners, or you own a management company, whatever it is, it’s like the ability to be agile and nimble and to be able to like, say, all right, this is what we’re facing this day.

[00:55:02] Jessy Grossman: And we’re going to, we’re going to ebb and flow based on that information. I personally, like, I’m not like a hundred percent privy, I guess, to like, What the, like this whole, the most recent news about tech talk, but like, I don’t think it’s going away. They want it to be sold to an American company.

[00:55:21] Jessy Grossman: Right? Like they just, they just don’t want Chinese ownership of it. So like, I just think it’s going to force tech to talk his hand a little bit. I don’t think that Tech Talk is in a position where they want to see the whole U S market go away from them. So like, I just think they’re sort of forcing their hand.

[00:55:36] Jessy Grossman: And it’s interesting if you see, I don’t know if you’re privy, There’s a lot of legislation overseas about other platforms as well, like mostly meta, to be honest. So like lawsuits and anyways, the point being is that like, there’s a lot of government push in all different directions in terms of like what’s allowed on platforms, what oversight there should be on platforms.

[00:56:03] Jessy Grossman: And I think that like. Big picture. I think it’s important that there is more oversight on these platforms. So I think it’s going to be a positive thing, but okay. So they just pass us like, we’ll see what happens. But I, I don’t think tech talks like going away. I just think that it’s going to have to change ownership to a certain extent, which I feel for the most are the people who work at Tech Talk.

[00:56:31] Jessy Grossman: You know, we’re talking about. Layoffs before. And I, I worry about the people who were there and what they must be going through and how scary that is. I 

[00:56:40] Nicole Kasper: mean, the amount of people that this would impact is truly sickening. When you think about the creators, this is, I mean, countless creators have quit their full-time jobs to do this full-time.

[00:56:51] Nicole Kasper: Like this is their livelihood, something they’ve worked on for years, their creative outlet, it’s their life. So it would impact those people. It would impact talent management and brand agencies. Yeah, but you know what? There is so little that we are in control of in this world. So I’m just going to pray about this and that God’s got it.

[00:57:10] Nicole Kasper: And if it ends up being that TikTok goes away, then everybody else will be focusing on Instagram. So thankfully all of our talent are on Instagram and have strong platforms there too. So brands are still going to want to spend money. It’s just going to go to a different platform. Totally. 

[00:57:27] Jessy Grossman: And there’s going to be people who were active on TikTok in terms of following people like they’re going to want somewhere to go to.

[00:57:33] Jessy Grossman: So I wonder if there’s going to be an uptick in engagement on other platforms, you know? And I, the worst case scenario is that like TikTok does go away, which like, I just highly doubt that’s going to happen. But in the interim, people are probably just going to jump on the other platforms more.

[00:57:48] Jessy Grossman: So yeah, diversification is important. Right. 

[00:57:51] Nicole Kasper: Very important. There’s the 

[00:57:53] Jessy Grossman: lesson right there. So look, I have a feeling. Our audiences want to get in touch, whether it’s to work with you, your awesome talent, your awesome business partner, or your employees that we’ve talked about all in this episode, what’s the best way for our audience to get in touch with you guys?

[00:58:11] Nicole Kasper: Yeah, so you can reach out to us. I’m happy to share my email. If you want to include that it’s Nicole at odysseyentgroup. com. We also have an Instagram account, which we post a lot about new signings and. Some of the partnerships that we’ve worked on have new team members joining. And we also are very active on LinkedIn.

[00:58:32] Nicole Kasper: So if anybody is looking for jobs, we are currently hiring for an influencer coordinator, a management assistant, and a business and operations manager. So three hires right now, and the interview process is a joy. 

[00:58:49] Jessy Grossman: I believe you. I don’t think you’re being sarcastic at all. Look, it’s been such a pleasure having you on the show.

[00:58:56] Jessy Grossman: We’ll have to have you back on the news page next time. I know. 

[00:59:00] Nicole Kasper: That’s what I was thinking. It would be really fun to have the two of us together. Cause I, yeah, she’s my other half. 

[00:59:07] Jessy Grossman: She’s the best. She is the best. I just saw you guys both. I was lucky to get to catch you while you were in New York. So it’s nice to catch up with both of you guys, but I’m happy to have you on today.

[00:59:17] Jessy Grossman: Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you guys for listening and we will see you next time. If you enjoyed this episode, we gotta have you back. Check out our website for more ways to get involved, including all the information you need about joining our collective. You can check out all the information at iamwim.

[00:59:37] Jessy Grossman: com. Leave us a review, or a rating, but the most important thing that we can ask you to do is to share this podcast. Thanks for listening. 

[00:59:46] Nicole Kasper: Tune in next week.