Let’s Talk Mental & Women’s Health

[00:00:00] Sourma Khoury: Cause I’m not for everyone, not for every job, not for every person. And I’m very comfortable in my skin. And that’s great because it’s a very, it’s a really, it’s an obvious truth. You’re not going to be for everyone. Right. But for so long, we carry this, like this burden on ourselves of like, why don’t they like me or why wasn’t I chosen?

[00:00:19] Sourma Khoury: And it’s like, there’s a different path for you. It wasn’t for you. It wasn’t meant for you. Like that’s the only woo woo that I give into because I really believe.

[00:00:35] Jessy Grossman: Hello, hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Wynn Podcast. My name is Jessi Grossman. I am your host. This week and every week. I’m really happy to be back here with you guys. Gosh, there’s a couple announcements, but this episode is just especially for Mental Health Awareness Month. So I’m sure you clicked in based on the title.

[00:00:58] Jessy Grossman: We will not disappoint. I have a special guest today. I’ll introduce her shortly, and it’s just meant to be a nice cathartic, let’s just dive into it and be honest about us as human beings type of episode. But before we do, and please stick around because it’s going to be so good, I promise. We have so many cool events coming up.

[00:01:20] Jessy Grossman: The one that I will focus on right now is my favorite. It’s the Best in Influencer Tech. We’ve done this You know, twice a year since 2020 and it’s one of our most popular events. People love it. So thank you guys for geeking out with me. I, if you know, look, I know that you guys are working your butts off all day every day and you want more support.

[00:01:45] Jessy Grossman: You want, you know, to do your job even better. And what’s the best way to sort of amplify the work that you’re doing? It’s having good tech to support it. So the best influencer tech, it’s an event. Like I mentioned, we’ve done many times before. This one will absolutely not disappoint. We have a special guest this time around who I’ll be revealing soon.

[00:02:07] Jessy Grossman: Hint, hint, it’s one of the social platforms. And what the tech companies who are participating will be doing is, uh, demoing their products for you. You have a opportunity to ask live questions in the chat, but you will get like a full demo and compare them to see like what’s the latest and greatest tools out there in terms of influence or discovery and so on.

[00:02:30] Jessy Grossman: Search in terms of campaign management, analytics, payments, workflows. It really, it runs the gamut. We’ve got a wonderful, diverse set of demoists. That’s not a word I want to say like panelists, but people who will be demoing for you and one of the best parts, in my opinion, about this event is that. All of our participants will be offering special promotions, discounts, and offers, especially just for the WIM community.

[00:03:01] Jessy Grossman: These discounts like never happen, you guys. And it’s like pretty much a prerequisite for us that if you participate, you got to give back to our community. So we’re super grateful. Sign up. It’s a completely free event. It’s like packed full of value. And I’m just really excited that we’re doing it again.

[00:03:20] Jessy Grossman: So go to I am WIM. Dot com slash tech. We make it very easy. Sign up June 20th, starts at 12 PM Eastern. It’s going to be so good. You guys. All right. We are going to dive into our episode today. It is with a good friend of mine. Her name is Suarma Kauri. She is a influencer marketing consultant, and she’s got over eight years of experience in the influencer and creator economy.

[00:03:48] Jessy Grossman: She’s collaborated with the fortune 500 brands across gaming, tech, and And beauty, including meta epic games and L’Oreal. She’s also worked with prominent creators like Kirstie Sarah and Alicia McCarville driven by a passion for transformative creator potential. She really excels at crafting compelling narratives that foster brand success and vibrant communities.

[00:04:16] Jessy Grossman: She brings all of this experience to the table. And today we’re just getting like Surma as a person. We’re talking about mental health. We’re talking about hormones. We’re talking about women’s health and how all of this affects us as people and all of this affects our work. And like, Literally everything we touch and how we need to start prioritizing these things.

[00:04:41] Jessy Grossman: So we feel better, we think better, and just how to get to an optimal state that we feel our best. And it’s such an important topic that not enough of us are talking about leaning in heavily to the fact that we are a women’s focused organization. A lot of it will revolve around that today and just a chat amongst women.

[00:05:02] Jessy Grossman: So without further ado, it’s a very personal and like heartfelt episode. I hope you enjoy. I hope you take something from this. I hope you share this episode and comment on it with, you know, what you’ve been through, how you feel about the topics we’re getting into and sit back and relax. It’s a really good one.

[00:05:24] Jessy Grossman: This show is sponsored by Women in Influencer Marketing, better known as WIM, the best online community for the creator economy. You will meet fellow influencer marketers, you’ll meet brands, you’ll meet talent agencies to talk, shop, get hired, and even find a mentor. When you become a member, do not forget Check out all of our incredible resources.

[00:05:48] Jessy Grossman: For example, we have dozens of masterclasses from the top voices, a Tik TOK, a YouTube award winning agencies and women who are paving the way for us all. So if you want the chance to network with a free school and influencer marketing, check out what it takes to become a member, make more money and have fun doing it.

[00:06:09] Jessy Grossman: Visit Iamwim. com slash join that’s I A M W I M. I am dot com slash join today and I so look forward to seeing you more around the community. I’m just excited to have you on the show. You know, you’ve been such a like prominent person in the community in general and whim and I think it’s important to acknowledge that we’re technically recording this during mental health awareness month.

[00:06:37] Jessy Grossman: And it’s such a like. Huge topic, like for us to even tackle today. We’re certainly never going to tackle everything. And there’s just so much to talk about. So my goal for today and having you on is like, really just to like, like learn your story a little bit. And for us to both be like vulnerable about how, like what mental health even like means to us, our experiences.

[00:07:04] Jessy Grossman: And, you know, it’s like a women’s focused organization. I think we need to talk so much more openly and often about the topic of mental health and our industry. It is tough sometimes in that capacity. So with all that being said, welcome and how are you? Thank 

[00:07:23] Sourma Khoury: you. I’m much better. That’s what I would say.

[00:07:27] Jessy Grossman: Okay. You want to elaborate on that a little bit more? 

[00:07:30] Sourma Khoury: Better from what? Ever since 2020, nothing has been the same. And I think that’s a story of everyone across the world. And I recognize that last year, last year was probably the worst year of my career. Lots of ups and downs was looking for a job for so long.

[00:07:48] Sourma Khoury: And it was really scared because usually I never, it never took longer than three months to find a job. And I’d been like, Five or six and I was freaking out. And before that, you know, starting from like 2020 and what happened after I was laid off from my job, which I loved, I was obsessed with, I couldn’t find anything better, frankly, like I was spoiled from where I came from and I went to a bunch of different agencies and one was worse than the other, or it just wasn’t working out for me.

[00:08:20] Sourma Khoury: And it was just like, I had a expectation and there weren’t delivering. On expectation of my own right that I had set and yeah, it was really hard because they start to question yourself. You start to doubt yourself that imposter syndrome comes creeping in and takes over and at the same time, what I didn’t realize at the time was I was actually there was a hormone imbalance.

[00:08:45] Sourma Khoury: Uh, in my body and 

[00:08:47] Jessy Grossman: I’d love to hear a little bit more about that. I, it’s something that not enough women just talk about the effect of hormones. Tell us a little bit more about that. 

[00:08:56] Sourma Khoury: So I’m in my forties. I’m never ashamed to admit my age and I was doing all the right things. I was going to therapy, journaling, meditating.

[00:09:08] Sourma Khoury: eating a healthy diet at home. I cook a lot at home already. Try to go to the gym probably three times a week. So I’m like, Something’s not adding up, like something, something’s got to give. And so, thanks to TikTok, and there is a doctor, I don’t remember her name, I think it’s Dr. Claire, but she specializes in women’s health and talks a lot about the history and a lot about the things that most women don’t know because we, as a society, don’t prioritize women’s health.

[00:09:37] Sourma Khoury: And so, and educate. One another, you know, and patients on women’s health and she talked about pre menopause and all of the symptoms. And I was like, yep, I have that. Yep. I have that. And it just was like, finally, I was like, oh, my God, I think this is what it is. And so it sort of happened before just what coming up on my for you page and then having conversations with my therapist and then coming to the realization.

[00:10:01] Sourma Khoury: I think it’s hormones. So went to the gynecologist and thankfully like they specialize in women’s health. So I think that’s really important for women to understand is like when you’re choosing your doctor, especially your OBGYN, you want to make sure that they are even board certified, frankly, in women’s health.

[00:10:19] Sourma Khoury: And my doctor here in LA has a clinic and it’s called pellet therapy. So basically she has. a practice where if you were have the hormone imbalance, you can go to her practice and get treatment. And so, yeah, went to the doctor, checked my hormones and found like testosterone was extremely low. I know that sounds weird because you’re like, wait, women need testosterone.

[00:10:41] Sourma Khoury: It’s like, yeah, we just need a little bit. Not as much as men do. And mine was extremely low. Ironically, my estrogen was through the roof. Don’t want to have kids, but okay. So I was like, thank God. Finally, there’s like something I can put, you know, there’s a solution here. And so I chose hormone replacement therapy.

[00:11:02] Sourma Khoury: And basically you have two options. One is. It’s in office and it’s an insertion in office, like on the side, like by your hip, or you do cream. And I chose the insertion because that’s like immediate relief. And so the pro is immediate relief. The con is it’s out of pocket. So sadly it’s another one of these expenses that is not covered.

[00:11:24] Sourma Khoury: by insurance. So yeah, so I took a leap of faith. I was like, I have to do this. I have to try this out. And I’ve been on it for almost two years, I think. And I go every three months. And the craziest thing happens is like two weeks before my next appointment, I start to feel the foggy brain, the anxiety, the like, just all of the symptoms that you get, you know, and I’m like, and I have to almost remind myself.

[00:11:49] Sourma Khoury: And now I like put a calendar reminder of like, You’re not going crazy. 

[00:11:54] Jessy Grossman: It’s hormones and you can almost predict it. It’s, I mean, that’s so fascinating. And like. Thank goodness that like, there’s things like, just, this is what I was talking about when we first started getting on here, it’s just like, if more people just shared this information so that you, we can just be aware of it, then you can go to a doctor and say, Hey, like, I’ve, I’m aware of this.

[00:12:20] Jessy Grossman: I don’t know if that’s what it is, but like, here’s a lead in some direction, you know, like, here’s a possibility. And then to be able to sort of identify clearly with like, what is it? A blood test, I would assume, right? To see what your hormones like are, you know, leveled out at, and then to also have a treatment that you’re getting.

[00:12:39] Jessy Grossman: And it’s so effective. In fact, you know, a few weeks or a couple months, I guess, into it, you see the effects of it wearing off. Immediately. I feel it as well. And immediately you feel it when you get it. 

[00:12:51] Sourma Khoury: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:12:53] Jessy Grossman: That’s amazing. So 

[00:12:54] Sourma Khoury: important. I think in the problem with it is like, We’ve been made to believe that this thing has these side effects.

[00:13:02] Sourma Khoury: There has been a very like old peer review and it got pulled because it was inaccurate and it accused of like having some type of cancer. I think it was breast cancer or whatever, and it’s actually not true. And so like, that’s the thing you’re all also combating is this false. You know, narrative that this thing actually isn’t healthy for you and you shouldn’t try, you know, and so it’s been around hormone replacement therapy has been around for over 20, 30 years, I think, if I’m not mistaken.

[00:13:31] Sourma Khoury: So, like, you know, we just don’t have the, we’re just not educated, you know, and frankly, we can’t even rely on all of our doctors of having this knowledge because this one doctor that I’m talking about, she Says like, even when I was a resident, I didn’t know what that, what this was. And I had to learn, cause I wanted to be an expert in this area and help women.

[00:13:53] Sourma Khoury: So, 

[00:13:54] Jessy Grossman: yeah. And so talk to us about like, before you even identified what was the issue, you know, what, how did you experience your symptoms like on a day to day basis? So what I was experiencing 

[00:14:07] Sourma Khoury: was I couldn’t function the same way I function. Like I handle high pressure. Like intense work situations and I thrive in those environments.

[00:14:18] Sourma Khoury: All of a sudden, it was extremely overwhelming. I could not focus. I was having panic attacks. My anxiety was just through the roof. I’m crying more. And I don’t know, like, why is everything making me cry? Why am I so sensitive to these things? So you start to recognize something’s not right. Like something feels off and you can’t put your finger on it because again, you’re not educated on what it could be.

[00:14:43] Jessy Grossman: And where to even start, you know, like where, like, is it this part of my body, that part, like you don’t even know where to begin to diagnose. 

[00:14:51] Sourma Khoury: And crazy as it sounds, premenopause actually begins in your thirties. So we sort of go through it for like a good 10 years before even getting menopause. What that means is like, for me, I’m prolonging the inevitable being on hormone play.

[00:15:07] Sourma Khoury: And I’m like, great, I will stay on for the rest of that means 

[00:15:13] Jessy Grossman: I have to have no period every month, right? Let’s prolong this thing. I’ll happily prolong that. And so, Tell us a little bit about more like once you like, I’m curious, like, did you pretty immediately find the right doctor and find the right diagnosis?

[00:15:34] Jessy Grossman: Cause like, I’ll speak super personally, like at different parts of my life, I’ve had different health issues and, you know, I’ve had a pretty unfortunate experience with doctors, like not You know, just I feel like I’m being like passed around and no one’s helping me and it’s like, I came to you like, because I don’t know.

[00:15:54] Jessy Grossman: And this is what you do for a living. And so I’m curious, like, what your experience was. Did you? Like, did you pretty immediately figure out what the problem was or did you have to sort of go down a longer path? 

[00:16:06] Sourma Khoury: So it’s funny you mentioned this. I think I recognized I needed a functional medicine doctor a long time ago, like probably like 20 years ago because of the symptoms I was having with other things.

[00:16:19] Sourma Khoury: So it was not, so in my late twenties, thirties, I was, having a hard time losing weight and I couldn’t figure out why. And so then I always hear about a thyroid issue. And so I was, I couldn’t go, I, for some reason, I think I was probably watched a documentary or something where I knew I couldn’t go just a regular Western medicine doctor.

[00:16:42] Sourma Khoury: Now I will say with a big disclaimer, I am not one of those like woo woo. Like you go to just some random person who calls themselves a doctor. No, no. Like you have to be. You know, went to actual medical school and practice and everything. So the difference with a functional medicine doctor and similar to like, they call them preventative medicine is just that they’re trying to get to the root of the problem.

[00:17:04] Sourma Khoury: They’re not trying to just put a bandaid on it and give you just another pill to take. Now, a lot of that means that you have to be extremely proactive because you are your best advocate. So you have to know. All the things as well and ask all the questions. And yeah, I went to a functional medicine doctor.

[00:17:22] Sourma Khoury: And again, unfortunately, because a lot of that isn’t covered with insurance, you do end up paying some of it out of pocket, like a consultation you’ll have to pay out of pocket, or let’s say it’s not, you know, obviously medications that you’re getting prescribed, but they’re supplements. Those are usually out of pocket.

[00:17:40] Sourma Khoury: I’ve been really proactive. Like every doctor I’ve ever been to, I’m like, Okay. Tell me the name of it and then let me do research and then I will go and purchase it myself. Cause I’ll always find a better deal. Like there’s some that I can’t, I have to go through my doctor, but yeah, for the most part, you know, there’s a lot of work, you know what I mean?

[00:17:59] Sourma Khoury: It’s not easy to do. No, 

[00:18:00] Jessy Grossman: I almost, I feel like taking charge of your own. Like health is not easy at all. I appreciate you saying that because I, I struggle with this with even like my fiance is like a few things that like reasons that I’m like, go to the doctor and like, he’s like, it’s just, it’s so much work.

[00:18:16] Jessy Grossman: Like, it’s not like you just go, they diagnose you and you get a treatment. Yeah. You know, it’s like you go this and you got to get this test and you got to get the follow up, then, you know, maybe they have more tests to do. to take and it almost feels like another full time job and I, as women, as people who are going to influence our marketing, like so many professions, like you’re just already overwhelmed with life, like already, of course, like the the upside is that it’s like, well, theoretically, if I get ahead of this thing, it will unlock the other things and make the rest of my life simpler, feel better, all that stuff.

[00:18:51] Jessy Grossman: But it’s hard. And it’s like mentally taxing while you’re going through it, while you’re trying to fix it, maybe. And sometimes with the treatment. So like, how have you sort of like, or have you, you know, like gotten ahead of that, the mental. Hardship of it all. 

[00:19:10] Sourma Khoury: Yeah. The mental hardship, the way that I handle that now I’ve gone to therapy for many years.

[00:19:16] Sourma Khoury: And never am against it right now. I’m not because I feel really good mentally. There’s a part of me that believes like, Oh, I don’t want to feel like I have to go see you in order for me to solve this problem. Like I need to figure out how I got to solve it first. And if there’s a pattern of behavior that I’m displaying.

[00:19:37] Sourma Khoury: That seems to be, it’s not working. So why do I keep doing this? Then I think, Oh, I probably need to go to a therapist again. So until that happens, I haven’t gone to one. And so the way that I deal with it, any, anything mentally these days is journaling every morning. I wake up an hour before I start work.

[00:19:54] Sourma Khoury: I journal and then I meditate for two, 20 minutes. And that has been God sent. Honestly, that’s really life changing. 

[00:20:02] Jessy Grossman: So I would love to dig into that because my therapist for. Oh my gosh, at least a year, probably way longer than that has been like you got a journal meditate. Like I have anxiety. She’s like, you know, meditation could really help.

[00:20:16] Jessy Grossman: I can’t do it. I can’t do, I like, I want to say I can’t do it. I’m not doing it. So like, how was it always sort of easy for you to do 

[00:20:26] Sourma Khoury: the things once person and my mind isn’t so many places. Cause I want to do so many things. It starts with like five minutes. So like five minutes, it’s like you’re quiet and you’re recognizing it’s more like being aware of the thoughts.

[00:20:43] Sourma Khoury: And that’s where it begins, right? So the beginner is be aware of your thoughts. Say to yourself, Oh, I’m just aware. I just had this thought that I should actually just be quiet right now. My mind needs to be quiet. And then you just then add some minutes to that every time. So that so as soon as you feel comfortable with the five minutes and you realize like it’s been a week me doing for five minutes and my mind is clear and it’s quiet and I’m not thinking of a bunch of things.

[00:21:11] Sourma Khoury: Then you can like go up to 10 minutes and then you do just a different kind of meditation. You use head, head space, right? If you want, then you try one of those, they’re guided ones. And today I use like very specific ones that are really about focusing on the future and envisioning your life in the future today in your body.

[00:21:33] Sourma Khoury: And it’s very like intense breathing and intense, like holding it’s a lot. And I love it. And doing that alone, life changing. 

[00:21:42] Jessy Grossman: Well, tell me more, because like, tell me more. I don’t know. I’ve heard a lot of benefits of it, but I, like, I mostly just hear like, it’s life changing. I hear that like, it’s so beneficial, I do it all the time, but like, how does it really help you?

[00:21:54] Jessy Grossman: Like, is it, like, how does it really 

[00:21:56] Sourma Khoury: help you? It’s, what it’s doing is, it is shifting my mind to quiet down, just to calm down. Everything will be fine. You will get to it. You know what I mean? And it’s not about this, like very chaotic fear based survival mode brain. And the thing that I learned about the brain that I never knew before was that the brain is always going to be in survival mode because that’s how we were biologically created.

[00:22:23] Sourma Khoury: We were created to be protected, always making sure we’re, but the problem is in today’s world and what we see in media. Makes us feel like that 24 7 like we’re in survival mode when we’re not actually like everything is fine So I think that’s a really big reason why meditation is so important that you sort of have to tell your mind all over again And yeah, tell your mind all over again.

[00:22:46] Sourma Khoury: Like everything is okay, you know, you’re not gonna die. There’s not a Tiger or bear, you know, you’re talking about with tick tock running after you, you 

[00:22:57] Jessy Grossman: know, I mean, or a man, a caveman running after, you know, it’s so interesting because like, I don’t know, you, I almost have a sense of that, like, people are.

[00:23:07] Jessy Grossman: These days, quote unquote, are just like more and more anxious than ever before. Like I’m one of them. And like, we’ve just never had so much activity around us at once. Right. And like access to information at our fingertips and like inundated with so much, it’s just like, it makes sense that it’s just like naturally super overwhelming.

[00:23:31] Jessy Grossman: And so like. To combat that, like what you keep saying reminds me that like things in our body, our brains are, you know, all of the different elements of our bodies. Like, it’s like any muscle you have to train it to do what you need or want it to do. That repetition is just hard for me. So that’s why I’m like, I need to like, really be told like, No, Jess, like seriously, it’s improved my life so much because of X, Y, Z, I need to be like jealous of what you’re doing in order to like convince my stubborn brain to like, it’s like the ADHD part of my brain where I’m like 

[00:24:07] Sourma Khoury: repetition, that’s hard.

[00:24:09] Sourma Khoury: I think they’ll just come a time where you’ll just give in because like, clearly you may just not be ready for it. You know what I mean? And so like, I say with everything in life, you don’t, you should never force yourself. It’s like, you’ll come to that point where you’re just like, you know what? I’m ready.

[00:24:23] Sourma Khoury: I’m ready to start this new 

[00:24:24] Jessy Grossman: thing. So question for you. Does this, you said you, you quiet your mind. Yeah. That sounds like a little scary to me. Okay. Like, Like, what am I gonna, what’s going to creep in without chaos or without the noise that’s a part of everyday life? Do you ever feel like that? 

[00:24:43] Sourma Khoury: Never. So it’s probably because it’s twofold.

[00:24:47] Sourma Khoury: One fold is I grew up in a very loud family that was always extremely loud. And ever since I’ve been living on my own for how many years? I don’t like noise anymore. I don’t like loud screaming yet. I don’t like any of that. I can handle it. I could be in, you know, a room with it. It’s fine. Cause I’m used to it.

[00:25:07] Sourma Khoury: Also, my job is extremely high stress. And so I will force myself, like. The first hour of work, I don’t have Slack open. I don’t have email open. I do know what my tasks are. So I focus on those things and I need complete silence. So usually I will give myself that complete silence while I’m working because I’m the most focused.

[00:25:28] Sourma Khoury: I also know like my brain operates in it’s the most optimal at 10 AM. So I know that I can get the best. You can get the best out of me in that first out that one hour from 10 to 11. The other thing that I. have been introduced to by a therapist was bilateral music. Bilateral music is basically you hear sounds and they go back and forth right to left ear.

[00:25:54] Sourma Khoury: And it helps you stay focused. And it’s again, life changing. 

[00:25:58] Jessy Grossman: So it’s like from, what is it, mono, like, what is it called? Like, I don’t know. But when you have like two different earphones in, so the sound is in one, the sound is going from a very 

[00:26:07] Sourma Khoury: smoothing sound. It’s almost like, you know, like when you’re in a sound bath or you’re doing yoga, but it’s the, but the music is going, it’s perfectly set and made to go from left to right, left to right.

[00:26:19] Sourma Khoury: And so it’s, it helps. So I’m. I believe what it does is just helps the brain balance and stay focused. Also, what I’ve realized too, is because of social media and because of always being on our phones, we’re all a little ADHD, so I’m not alone. I’ve seen literal CEOs from these big companies talk about how difficult it is for them to get off their phones.

[00:26:40] Sourma Khoury: And when I heard that I’m like, Oh, we’re all going through this. Like, this is a whole global problem. 

[00:26:46] Jessy Grossman: So I love that you seem to be protective of your environment, you know, as you work or even throughout your life. So it sounds like, you know, you’re like, I close Slack for the, you know, X amount of time, email, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:27:02] Jessy Grossman: What else has really been a game changer for you? It sounds like sound is, and I totally relate to that. Like I’m a podcast listener or like I, and sometimes I enjoy having things on the background cause I sense it, it like lightens my mood, but when I need to focus, absolutely not like I need silence. I, it’s the opposite.

[00:27:23] Jessy Grossman: When I used to go into an office. I always preferred to work remote because it would be so frustrating to me to be in the middle of something. And then somebody like, Hey, Jess, can you help me with this? Hey, Jeff. And I’m like, Oh, I’m going to go crazy. It’s so it’s beyond annoying. It’s like to my core.

[00:27:42] Jessy Grossman: It’s so it’s like I’m physically uncomfortable. So I get the sensitivity to noise, but just distractions. It sounds like you just, it’s like a focusing tactic. What other kinds of strategies have you implemented that have really worked for you? 

[00:27:56] Sourma Khoury: Yeah. When I’m really stressed and I want to fricking scream and just go off on someone a lot of times, because it’s my therapy is cooking and because I work from home, if there’s something, if it’s like breakfast or lunch and I have time, like 30 minutes, I go in and cook, you know, I’ll make a quick omelet and I’ll, you know, and then that just helps me clear my head and I’m not emotionally attached to the problem.

[00:28:21] Sourma Khoury: I am able to detach and then think more clearly and then respond accordingly. 

[00:28:27] Jessy Grossman: I’m so intrigued. Like, do you think that it’s like, is it the aromas? Is it the doing something with your hands that gets you out of your head? Like, what actually is it in the cooking that I think it’s the doing of my 

[00:28:36] Sourma Khoury: hands and I have to be focused.

[00:28:38] Sourma Khoury: Like what I’m doing, there’s like, there’s steps to this thing to get to the end result. So I have to focus on this thing and now I can’t focus on my emotional problem that I just had so I’m now it’s going in the back of my brain, which is what it should, you know, like, or removed altogether because you never should respond to something emotionally.

[00:28:57] Sourma Khoury: Quick question for you guys. 

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[00:30:17] Jessy Grossman: favorite. So head to our website. It’s iamwim. com slash caveat for a completely free trial. That’s I A M W I I M. com slash K A V E A T. I hope you guys love it as much as I do. So then you cook your delicious omelet, you eat your delicious omelet, like emotions are a little bit lessened. And then what? And then I write out 

[00:30:45] Sourma Khoury: what I want to say.

[00:30:47] Jessy Grossman: You write down what you want to say. Okay, 

[00:30:49] Sourma Khoury: I want to say and then I judge it to make it sound nicer as nice as possible. And then, yeah, and then I always every single time or I just don’t write like, or like, it’s gone where I’m just like, Oh, my God, that wasn’t that big of a deal. I’m being so I’m seeing such a brat, you know?

[00:31:06] Sourma Khoury: Oh, my ego. That’s another thing. Recognizing the ego like, Oh, my ego is hurt. I’m not really hurt like by that. And there’s a difference between the two. 

[00:31:17] Jessy Grossman: Is that a skill that you’ve had to refine over time, like identifying and then making a conscious decision to say like, that’s just my ego and don’t react if that’s the cause?

[00:31:29] Jessy Grossman: Hundred percent. 

[00:31:30] Sourma Khoury: Yeah. Because like, even when you’re rejected in any sort of circumstance, I now am like, okay, bring on the rejection. Cause I’m not for everyone. Not for every job, not for every person. And I’m very comfortable in my skin. And that’s great because it’s a very, it’s a really, it’s an obvious truth.

[00:31:48] Sourma Khoury: You’re not going to be for everyone. Right. But for so long, we carry this, like this burden on ourselves of like, why don’t they like me or why wasn’t I chosen? And it’s like. Because there’s a different path for you that wasn’t for you, wasn’t meant for you. Like that’s the only woo woo that I give into because 

[00:32:05] Jessy Grossman: I really believe that.

[00:32:06] Jessy Grossman: I believe it too. I believe it too. So call it woo. It’s fine. I’m woo there as well. So when you are in like your best headspace and you’re feeling your most confident and you’re feeling your most clear, like how do you know, like what else do you feel? How does it manifest in your life? 

[00:32:28] Sourma Khoury: It’s such a great question.

[00:32:29] Sourma Khoury: It manifests in giving. I’m giving more. I’m giving more of my time, my energy to people that I love. Of course, first and foremost, I’m creative more. So I’m probably cooking more, you know, I may be creating Tik TOKs and have like a lot of fun things to like post. Cause I do love doing that. Those would probably be the.

[00:32:50] Sourma Khoury: The main ones, or I’m just coming up with ideas like, Oh my God, I can’t wait to like be social and do this. I’m going to reach out to them and be like, Hey, let’s set up this or travel. Like, Hey, why don’t we go here? That’s when I’m in my peak. 

[00:33:02] Jessy Grossman: Yeah. I love that. And cause I feel like mental health. Like, it feels very, it feels so personal.

[00:33:09] Jessy Grossman: It’s like one of the most personal things where I think some people feel uncomfortable talking about it. Certainly most of us feel uncomfortable talking about it when you’re going through it, right? Like when you’re feeling super legitimately anxious, you’re feeling super depressed, like that’s the hardest moment to have these conversations because you’re just feeling your most vulnerable.

[00:33:32] Jessy Grossman: But I, so. I think a it hopefully will just generally help us all feel more comfortable just talking about it. If more people just do you sort of destigmatize the conversation and in the first place. But how do you deal with your loved ones, family, friends, coworkers, even sometimes? Who you sort of identify independently seem like they’re struggling because that’s a very sensitive topic.

[00:34:04] Jessy Grossman: Right? I mean, topic in that, like, it’s not my issue where am I? I don’t want to overstep, but I want to help. I want to support. How do you approach it when you sort of see. What you’ve experienced in someone else. Yeah, no, that’s a 

[00:34:20] Sourma Khoury: good question. I think it just depends on my relationship with the person. I want to be like authentic and candid, but I also don’t want to come across as like, I’m your savior.

[00:34:29] Sourma Khoury: You know, I’m here to help you. It doesn’t feel right. And. When I sense it, because I do, I can sense those things really quickly in people and I never come out and just say it, I sort of just immediately start helping or immediately start asking, like for, so for example, when it’s colleagues, it’s like, I sidebar, I’m like, Hey, how’s it going?

[00:34:51] Sourma Khoury: I mean, you’re doing a really good job. I love the way that you handled that. Or what can I do to help? Hey, here’s, here are these like resources that you could use. It’ll be easier for you to get through what you’re doing right now. Cause I’ve already done them already and I’m in a different stage. So with coworkers, it’s that, and then in person, when I was with coworkers, it was more like, do you want to go out for drinks afterwards?

[00:35:14] Sourma Khoury: You know, happy hour, or let’s go out for lunch today, you know, and just kind of get them out of. And then even when I do, and even if I have done that, I still don’t mention it. I still just allow them to be comfortable and say whatever in that moment. I’ve noticed that like, as I get older, you have to just allow people to like open up to you.

[00:35:34] Sourma Khoury: It’s only with loved ones that I’m very direct and I’m more direct. And I’m just like, how are you doing? I haven’t heard from you in a while. I called you a few times and you didn’t respond. So I’m kind of worried. Are you good? Do you need anything? Can I Uber eats you something or put, you know, or like Instacart you something, whatever it is you need.

[00:35:51] Sourma Khoury: And then I just show up for them, you know, like, especially my friends, they’re like my family. So like I show up for them for everything. Cause they’ve shown up for me tenfold. So it’s like, to me, it’s like the least I could do. 

[00:36:03] Jessy Grossman: Yeah. I think, I mean, those are really solid strategies. I think that like some of us have situations where if.

[00:36:10] Jessy Grossman: If we are susceptible to. Depression, anxiety, one of those things. And somebody close to us is also going through their own depression or anxiety. I think there’s like, usually like a natural understanding, you know, it’s like, I’ve been there. I’ve done that. So like, I see what you’re going through and I won’t take it personally.

[00:36:33] Jessy Grossman: If you don’t attend my party, I won’t take it personally. If you don’t call for a bit, but I think that like, it can be hard when it happens consistently and like, You also want to have, I’m hesitant to say healthy friendships, but like there are certain expectations that you have of relationships and certain things that you want to receive as the other half of that relationship.

[00:36:58] Jessy Grossman: And it can just not, it can be challenging to be in relationship with people who struggle and that can be incredibly conflicting and just challenging because A, if it’s someone in your life that you have a history with and, you know, you genuinely care about them and you want to be sensitive, but it’s hard going through.

[00:37:18] Jessy Grossman: When people are like in the trenches of it, how do you, I don’t know if it’s like ego, right? It’s like, I didn’t get my call today, whatever feelings are again, like it’s natural to sort of have expectations of another person that you’re in relationship with, whether it’s, you know, friendship, what have you, how do you manage those situations and how do you navigate them?

[00:37:41] Sourma Khoury: Yeah, it’s such a good question. Cause it literally just happened where I just gotten better. That’s the irony is that like we’re having this conversation and it’s like I wanted to have it with you because I finally feel better and it’s only been the last few years were so terrible, but the last two years I completely cut off everyone in my family because I was going through so much mentally and I couldn’t figure out how to communicate literally did not have the words on how to communicate what I was feeling because, of course, there’s always some always some form of trauma.

[00:38:17] Sourma Khoury: And I don’t use that word loosely because thankfully I don’t have. You know, severe. It’s just, you know, for me, it was abandonment, right? We all have some form of it. And so at the time when I cut everyone off, I just, I had my like, it was, I was on my last straw and I couldn’t handle it anymore and I handled it terribly because that’s not the way you should, you know, be operating with the people you’re closest to.

[00:38:42] Sourma Khoury: But at the time, I didn’t know any other way. And when you think about it, I was going through hormone imbalance. I literally didn’t foggy brain. Um, Anxiety, panic attack, looking for a job, scared of my finances. And it was really difficult to like, have those conversations with family about like, why and where was I?

[00:38:59] Sourma Khoury: And there’s a lot of nuance to what was happening on both sides. But like, I have to say that my friends were, there was an, and listen, it’s easy for me to say that because they knew exactly what was going on, but they were so kind and I, that was missing in my life and that’s what I realized actually needed in my life.

[00:39:21] Sourma Khoury: That I wasn’t getting with all due respect to my family, because we just, you know, you operate differently with your friends and your family, and especially in different cultures like mine, very intense middle being Middle Eastern, very intense first generation, forget it, like a lot of pressure. So, yeah, like, I don’t do things.

[00:39:40] Sourma Khoury: I am a human being that makes a lot of mistakes and I try to take ownership for them. And as I got older, it’s very easy for me to be like, I’m so sorry. I hurt you. I’m sorry I made a mistake when I was younger I was the most stubborn person you can think of and I was extremely like defensive because to me at the time the reason for it was because everyone else was doing the things I’ve been accused of so it’s very difficult to live in a world when that’s happening so you sort of do end up building your ego up higher than your true self and then you realize like well this is not getting me anywhere and I need to now take accountability because I don’t want to live in this world where I’m like, you know, just constantly defensive and just like reacting.

[00:40:25] Jessy Grossman: Well, the ultimate question becomes like, do you want to be right? Or do you want to be happy? And if you see that, like the decisions that you’re making, maybe they feel good in the moment, maybe, but are they like long lasting, sustainable happiness and fulfillment? And if they’re not, then it just benefits you more than anyone else to make a change.

[00:40:43] Jessy Grossman: But I’ll say this too. Like, Hey, I have a very good friend of mine who definitely struggles with mental health stuff and she’s so aware of it. And like, The way that we’ve been able to navigate it for as long as we have, because I’ve known her since I was very young, is sort of just similar to what you described, which is like when she’s in a good place, she’s very forthcoming and direct with me about like, I know I was like just owning what happened for the last bit of time.

[00:41:13] Jessy Grossman: So they’re never like, there feels like there’s just an ownership of it, honesty about it. And calling it for what it is and being like, I was a shitty friends. Like I was just a shitty friend that I’m sorry. And I love you. And I don’t mean Dino and like, not much even needs to be said than just owning it, you know, and just like owning that, like.

[00:41:33] Jessy Grossman: That’s not the me that I want to be. I was really struggling through something because I feel like when we’re in it, like if I’d personalize it, like if I were in her shoe, when I’m in her shoes, not if like when I’m in her shoes, I do what you do. It sounds like, like, I definitely prefer to isolate myself.

[00:41:48] Jessy Grossman: Like I don’t want to be a burden. I don’t want to like, the last thing I want to do is socialize. I feel like normally the last thing I want to do is socialize. Nonetheless, when I’m like really in it. And so when I get out of it, I just, you know, I’m like, that’s not that that didn’t help anything. And I, in fact, like, I’m, it almost makes it almost feel sometimes like it makes it worse, right?

[00:42:14] Jessy Grossman: Because then you’re aware also that you, then you disappointed people. And then it’s just the cycle that we go through. But I think like. Ultimately, just being honest about it and what your best intentions look like, you know, with the people that you love. It’s just really important to communicate that as much as possible.

[00:42:33] Jessy Grossman: Right. I agree. No, I totally 

[00:42:34] Sourma Khoury: agree. But I also think like there’s a part, the way that I move today is like, you know, I We’re all selfish and we should be. There’s a certain aspect of us that we just have to be because we have to put on the mask first, right. In order to help other people. And I’ll always say that and believe that.

[00:42:50] Sourma Khoury: And there’s another part where you also have to meet people where they are. And like, if they’re not willing, and if there’s a cycle, there’s a pattern that this is the way they operate. I think it’s best to communicate, like, listen, I know you’re going through something and I’m just going to be here. And waiting for you.

[00:43:05] Sourma Khoury: Now, if you don’t want to be that person because you’re sick of dealing with it, you have every right to leave that friendship. Like, I don’t think I don’t think people should be judged on these things. It’s a very difficult thing to handle. Like not everyone is capable of handling somebody who’s going through a mental crisis or 

[00:43:23] Jessy Grossman: even just stepping back from it.

[00:43:25] Jessy Grossman: You know, like maybe whatever is going on in your life, whatever it is, like you can also take a pause from it. Cause I happen to agree with you. I think. The word selfish gets a really bad rap and it all that it really means at the end of the day is that you’re doing something for yourself. Like, why would that be such a negative thing?

[00:43:42] Jessy Grossman: But of course it has this negative connotation. So I think that like K to take a pause, it’s okay to say like, I need a break, like, and you’re not this like evil, horrible friend for by doing so. And I think 

[00:43:55] Sourma Khoury: two more points here is like, women need to be more selfish. So we’re naturally giving, we’re naturally caretaking.

[00:44:02] Sourma Khoury: So like, it’s okay to be a little more selfish, you know, and when you get to my age, you literally don’t give a shit about anything and you are very comfortable in your own skin. So like. There’s a beauty in aging too, you know? ’cause you do come to that point. The other part I wanted to mention was like, you know, you’re saying you isolate.

[00:44:23] Sourma Khoury: I think the thing that we don’t rec, we don’t say enough, is how much Covid did to us in terms of isolation. Like it’s made us more introverted than we should be. And so more of us are, are reacting to things by ghosting. by isolation, right? And by like shutting people out. And I think that’s due to the pandemic.

[00:44:46] Sourma Khoury: So like there also is needs to be something where you’re like, wait a minute, I never used to do this. I used to be such an extrovert. It’s like, okay, let’s find that person again. 

[00:44:54] Jessy Grossman: I’ve been saying for a while, like, it’s like, are we like, did we just use to have more energy? Because like, I go into the city one or two days a week, max, and I get home and I’m like, Oh my God, how would I, how did I ever do this five days a week?

[00:45:13] Jessy Grossman: But it was like, our life is what we did. I was so much more active than sat in the other. And I’m like, Is it just that we had more energy back then? Like, I don’t know. I mean, I’m a few years older now. We’re all a few years older. I don’t think it changed that dramatically. I think you just got accustomed to what we’re all used to and the world completely changed.

[00:45:31] Jessy Grossman: And I appreciate you bringing up COVID too. Cause like, We all just like white knuckled our way through it and like survived it, but not enough people acknowledge and talk about the huge, like extensive impact that it obviously had on everybody. I think almost because everybody went through it, right?

[00:45:51] Jessy Grossman: Nobody really escaped it. It’s even more swept under the rug because it’s not, it’s like, well, I mean, we all went through it, you know, it’s like, but yeah, that. That means we should talk about it more, like we should understand. It doesn’t make it any less intense what we went through. Yeah, absolutely. So I appreciate you bringing that up as well.

[00:46:12] Jessy Grossman: Yeah. I mean, I, this again, like there’s so many mental health conversations to have, like we’re almost, we’re, you know, I think we’re talking about a lot of the ones that a lot of people that I know at least experience the most often, you know, like anxiety, depression. We talked about ADHD a little bit, but just, you know, stress and I, but I appreciate the slant of, you know, talking about it from like a female perspective in particular, because I do feel like there’s absolutely a distinction with it.

[00:46:42] Jessy Grossman: Generally speaking, how we as women manage it based on what we were taught for generations and generations of other women. But, you know, hormones, which is how we started this whole conversation, like incredibly powerful. And. Not enough people even think to, you know, they’re experiencing a symptom of this out of the other.

[00:47:06] Jessy Grossman: They don’t even think that like that could be the cause. And it’s wild to me. I mean, in my journey of even just like trying to get pregnant for the past two years. I mean, I’ve, I just learned that, you know, uh, measuring your levels, they change, they fluctuate and the littlest bit of change can make you feel so different.

[00:47:29] Jessy Grossman: The littlest bit of change in your body could be the difference between. Not getting pregnant for two years and getting pregnant, like all of these things affect us and just, we’re so used to like, we’re so used to that grind. You know, I think that we become a little unconscious about all this, where it’s like, I’m just used to my routine.

[00:47:48] Jessy Grossman: I’m just used to getting my work done, waking up every day, feeding my pets, whatever it is, and we get too accustomed to feeling like garbage and talking about selfish. It’s important to be selfish and know that, like, you shouldn’t have to struggle in feeling less well than you used to, than other people.

[00:48:13] Jessy Grossman: Like there are cures out there or, you know, ways to just feel better. So in that regard, like if somebody were, you know, listening to this right now or watching or what have you, and they’re like, my energy is low. My, you know, I just don’t feel like myself. Like I feel like a shift. What would you, what advice would you give them?

[00:48:32] Jessy Grossman: As just like. at least do this. 

[00:48:35] Sourma Khoury: Yeah. I’d say at least go to your doctor and depending on your age, obviously, if you’re, you know, in your thirties and up. You can easily go to your doctor and ask them for when you’re doing your physical to make sure that you’re checking your hormones and your thyroid because all of those things are sort of intertwined.

[00:48:52] Sourma Khoury: That could be one or the other or both. In my case, it’s been both and start working out, start exercising more. It’s always good to like deal with stress, exercising, sleep is really important. I get eight hours of sleep every night. I have to, cause I am not a functioning person if I don’t. And I work very early hours.

[00:49:13] Sourma Khoury: I live in LA, but I work Eastern standard hours. So I start work at seven and yeah, so I have to do that. And then, so at least start there, the working out, the doctor working out and sleeping are like essential. And then. Eating healthier and then other stuff can come, right? Like when you’re ready to see a therapist and look for one.

[00:49:33] Sourma Khoury: Great. When you’re ready to start journaling your thoughts. Great. And meditation. Wonderful. You know, but I think the core for me was like sleeping well, going to the gym and seeing a doctor. 

[00:49:45] Jessy Grossman: Yeah. I love that. And talking to more women too, you know, like being open about it. Cause there’s also something to say for just like, just.

[00:49:53] Jessy Grossman: Talking about whatever’s internally going on, like sometimes a lot of us feel shame about it, guilt, whatever it is, the more that you can just get it out, whether it’s someone, you know, a therapist, like whatever, whoever you feel comfortable with, the more often that you’re able to just speak that out into the world, like your shame or guilt just like diminishes and diminishes.

[00:50:18] Jessy Grossman: Like I. Like there were, you know, let’s be personally, there were like body image issues that I had for years, like still do to a certain extent. But I remember maybe like probably my twenties, like there were certain things that like, I literally like if the conversation came up amongst friends, I would just like freeze, like words literally couldn’t come out of my mouth because of how uncomfortable that topic like was inside of me.

[00:50:45] Jessy Grossman: Yeah. And then slowly but surely like. I talked about it with one person, you know, just like a very slow process and then talked about it with someone else and shared an experience or shared this and it becomes easier. It becomes lighter. You like you physically feel lighter because this like, Whatever heaviness that existed around you that like, you know, internal strife is heavy.

[00:51:14] Jessy Grossman: It’s just like slowly chip away at it simply by like speaking it into the world and not just keeping it there. Like held up inside, you 

[00:51:23] Sourma Khoury: know, so much weight on the things that are on our minds when all we have to do is just offload them to the right person. And that just in and of itself could help solve the problem.

[00:51:33] Jessy Grossman: Solve everything. So I appreciate you having this conversation today. Like, again, of course, it was like So much to dive into and so much more to talk about. But it’s a topic that I love personally talking about, which is just like what we’re all feeling, what we’re like, because this is like the honest side of everybody.

[00:51:52] Jessy Grossman: Everybody’s experiencing this stuff to a certain extent. And like it does, it feels lighter to talk about. Talk about and to relate to people, you know, and to know that there’s hope out there also, that you don’t, you’re not in it alone, Ashley. So I appreciate you coming on and having this conversation.

[00:52:14] Jessy Grossman: Thank you. We’re gonna, I’m gonna leave in the show notes, just, you know, ways to get in touch with you and you’re just so active in our organization as well. And so you’re a wealth of information from. Influencer marketing. So just like real life, practical, everything. So a wonderful person to know and also one of our LA ambassadors.

[00:52:33] Jessy Grossman: So if you’re in LA on the West coast and traveling through SORMA is one of our ambassadors and like just bringing that community together and. We’re having more like takeaways like this, like imagine how lovely that is. So thank you for all of your insights and I appreciate you guys listening and thank you for tuning in and we will see you guys next week.

[00:52:59] Jessy Grossman: If you enjoyed this episode, we’ve got to have you back. Check out our website for more ways to get involved, including all the information you need about joining our collective. You can check out all the information at IamWim. com. Leave us a review, a rating, but the most important thing that we can ask you to do is to share this podcast. Thanks for listening. Tune in next week.