[00:00:00] Jessy: Hi everyone and welcome to the WIIM Podcast. Women in Influencer Marketing is a first of its kind exclusive networking group made up of inspirational women. This podcast is where we explore influencer marketing and get real about women in business. Find us wherever you download podcasts, and of course, you can always find us at iamwiim.com. That’s iamwiim.com.
Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Women in Influencer Marketing podcast. It’s Jessy, your host, and happy Tuesday. If you’re listening, when the episode drops. We have quite the week coming up tomorrow. If you’re listening on Tuesday, is our big New York City experience event. I cannot wait. I’m nervous. But we have been working so hard on this, and I know that I’m healthy, which means to me that I should be able to be there.
Unlike our LA experience, of course, where I got Covid the night before. If it’s anything like our last New York City event, though, I mean, we had girls just, they didn’t wanna go home. They went to the bar after. Like continued hanging out. So for those of you who are not familiar, we are leaning very, very heavily into in-person experiences this year, in 2023. And we are having them in New York, LA, Chicago’s coming soon and possibly other cities around the country.
This event, is Valentine’s themed because it’s on the 8th of February and Valentine’s Day is just like so soon that, how fun would it be to just like get together with your favorite girls and like have some drinks and some food and a lot of surprises and fun.
We’re also getting a headshot photographer, so if you wanna like freshen up your headshot for your LinkedIn or your own social or whatever you wanna use your website. We did that last week at a conference that we were at. So, I wanted to bring it back cause it was very successful.
So we’ve got an incredible photographer coming and girl, get all the pictures you want. It’ll be really, really fun. Lots of surprises.
So I don’t want for the photos to inevitably come out about this event and you look at them and you’re like, wait. I wasn’t in the mood or I didn’t think I would enjoy it or like, whatever reasons you’re coming up with right now where you would, you know, rather just watch Real Housewives at home. Like I’m telling you, I love Real Housewives too. But you are gonna regret not going to this event, it’s gonna be incredible.
And tickets will probably also sell out. So anyways, head to our website. iamwiim.com/events. We will link that in the show notes, but it’s I A M W I I M.com/events. You’ll see that event and all the upcoming events that we have cause there’s so much going on this year that we are very excited about.
I’m excited about the, not one, but two guests that we have coming on the show this week, Miss Lisa Poe and Molly Tracy, which I’m so excited to introduce to you. So first of all, they are both talent managers and former influencer strategists. Molly’s company, she’s a talent management and influencer marketing agency for women and brands, with a point of view.
Her mission is rooted in uplifting and amplifying female founded brands and voices while obsessively expanding their digital footprint. She’s equal parts brand builder, business manager, and digital strategist. She helps creators navigate the business side of the multimedia landscape.
And Lisa is the founder of LGPR, and she’s a strong believer in the power of meaningful relationships and that a trusted foundation is the key to impactful long-term success.
After nearly 10 years of experience in marketing and public relations in the sports hospitality and CPG industries, Lisa followed her heart and leaned into the part of her work she was most passionate about, supporting people and brands with shared values. She brings a personalized approach to each client, helping to strategically grow their brand and solidify partnerships in the food, fashion, lifestyle, and wellness verticals. Outside of LGPR. Lisa is a proud wife, dog, mom, friend, and mental health advocate.
I am so excited for you to be a fly on the wall of like our friend girl chat conversation because just felt like we were just getting together for drinks. Without further ado, this is Molly Tracy and Lisa Poe. All right, everyone, we’ve got a special episode today. So I’ve got Lisa Poe and I’m so excited to have you both here today. Welcome. How are you ladies?
[00:05:20] Molly: Hi.
[00:05:21] Lisa: So good. Thank you for having us.
[00:05:24] Jessy: Yes. Molly Tracy is the one is at the bottom of your screen right now. I hope you guys are watching this on YouTube or Spotify, because they’re gorgeous. They dressed up for the occasion. We were chatting, probably a few months ago, just like catching up. And we were talking about the podcast that I wanted you on, and then, you’re helping me like decide like what could be exciting for the show in 2023.
And we are just like, let’s just have a chat where we invite our friends and it’s more of a powwow and less of an interview. So that’s the goal of inviting both Molly and Lisa on today. So thank you guys for taking me up on this experiment that’s gonna go wild and be wildly successful.
[00:06:11] Molly: Thanks for having us. I’m super scheming to get Lisa and I together.
[00:06:15] Jessy: Yes. No, I’m so excited to have you both on. I have a feeling that today is just gonna feel like a fun girl chat. We are doing that a little bit before we hit the record button today. And I’m just excited to have you both on.
We heard a little bit about you each individually before we launched into our chat now, but beyond on paper and like your, official bios, I just wanna know about your relationship with each other and how you ladies met, so who wants to start?
[00:06:51] Molly: Yeah, go ahead.
[00:06:53] Lisa: I was gonna say this is not like sponsored plug. This is like truly organic, natural. We met in the Wiim Slack group. I think one of us answered another one’s question and then we started texting and now we have monthly calls and we had basically a therapy session last night. So…
[00:07:12] Molly: It’s one of many in all honesty. I can’t remember, I think we started chatting when you had just started your business and you were like maybe looking to find like other managers to connect with and I was like, that’s me. Happy to chat. And I don’t know, we just we fell in love from there, I guess so…
We found out that we had like really similar business ethos and like similar backgrounds having both worked like on the brand and agency side before. So I don’t know, it was like a match.
[00:07:37] Jessy: It was a match made in heaven. Love at first sight. That’s so cool that you guys met in Wiim. I did not know that before today. So I love hearing that. That’s really really lovely. And then we also have another person, I think the three of us in common, miss Kristen Ryan Spawn, who helps us all with our finances.
I call her my financial goddess. How do you guys utilize Kristen in your businesses?
[00:08:05] Molly: She’s our bookkeeper. I tell her all the time I would get hit by a bus four like. Truly, I don’t understand how I did my bookkeeping on my own for years before her. She’s like life changing. Shout out to Lisa for making that connection.
[00:08:17] Lisa: Yeah.
[00:08:17] Jessy: Shouts to Lisa, totally.
[00:08:19] Lisa: She was the first person I brought on when I kicked off LG-PR because finance and a number of things give me anxiety. So I was like, I need someone to do this. And she DMd me on Instagram actually through a mutual friend, and now she works with, I think the three of us and some other ladies in Wiim, which is like really exciting. So Kristen, we love you. Shout out.
[00:08:41] Jessy: Shout Kristen. We do, we do. She’s really incredible. Yeah, she works with a lot of talent managers, but she also works with me and I’m not managing talent anymore, so she’s just freaking phenomenal. Shameless plug for Kristen. I know that we have that in common as well, so I wanna like dive into it and just get right into the meat of it.
Let’s be as honest and candid today as humanly possible. And I think a great place for those conversations to start is about like flaws in our industry.
Look, it’s January of 2023, which means a lot of things. It means that our industry has been around for a hot minute. It’s certainly not new, and it’s not the wild west anymore, or it shouldn’t be at least.
And it’s also an exciting time of year because, if there are flaws in our industry, which like there are, we have opportunities to fix them throughout the year. It’s the beginning of the year. Let’s start our minds set in the right place. Molly, what do you think are some of the flaws in our industry? And then Lisa, like of course, I wanna hear from you next.
[00:09:49] Molly: I hate to call them flaws. I think there’s still a lot of discrepancies, I would say, in our industry. So for instance, like my roster is mostly made up of lifestyle bloggers. They’re OGs who have been, been doing it for the last eight to ten years.
And we work on a lot of conversion focused campaigns and I find that a lot of brands that are either performance based or D2C based or are trying to use influencers for, ROAS as their main KPI, aren’t thinking very strategically about how they’re using influencers to do that.
So for instance, like I was working with a brand the other week and they were, a D2C food brand, and we were, trying trying to structure a scope of work that made sense based off of what their goals were and trying to think backwards.
So they had a specific ROAS goal that they were looking for. And my first question is great, like what’s your AOV? Because if your AOV is, $20 and you’re looking to 2X this campaign. Like that’s a lot of product to move on a first time Instagram story, like we would need to look at a different scope.
Maybe it’s some additional follow up stories or at least, maybe it’s some blog post mentions or something like that in order to get us to the ROAS that you’re looking for.
We We drove some really solid clicks for that, campaign. But then you go to the website and you’re looking at they’re charging $15 for shipping.
So it’s like even by the time you apply the discount, no one’s going to be purchasing that $20 product and then paying $15 on top of it. So I get frustrated when people are like, but influencer marketing doesn’t work and I’m not seeing sales from it.
Well it’s it does work, but are you thinking about it really strategically and are you looking at, at the flow between influencer to consumer and how you play a role in that and how your e-com plays a role in that.
So I think flaws in the way of, in order for us to be the most successful that we can be, we have to be able to work with our brand and agency partners to really have an understanding of how they’re measuring success so we can can backend into it with the right scope of work and the right rate. Otherwise, it probably won’t be successful.
[00:11:50] Jessy: A thousand percent. And I also do wanna clarify cause there are very experienced women and men probably who listen to this podcast, who know what ROAS is. But in case you don’t, it’s Return On Advertising Spend. That’s what ROAS stands for. So I just wanna make sure that everyone’s aware of what that stands for.
Lisa, what are your thoughts? I guess do you feel as if our industry is flawed in any way? And if so where? .
[00:12:15] Lisa: Yeah, so it was actually a really good start with Molly, cause I agree. I think for me, the big flaw or the question mark is campaign success measurement. And I not only think it’s ROAS and AOV like Molly was talking about, which is I believe average order value.
But I really think it’s just being clear and communicative upfront from the agency or brand, how are you measuring success? Is it conversions? Is it sales? Okay, let’s do this. Is it awareness? Is it credibility? Do you just wanna align with this creator for what they stand for and what, like their ethos?
There’s a lot of ways to work with creators and they They all have different strengths and and I think a flaw is that a lot of the times the brands and agencies that are putting on these campaigns, they have an idea of what they wanna see as success, but they really don’t know.
So are they happy with the results? Are they not? There’s always that question mark, and And I think that is where there’s a little bit of a gray area in the industry where it’s like, does this work. The answer is yes, it works. It does a lot of things, right? But did it meet your needs? We won’t know that unless you know what those are.
And another thing, I don’t know if this is again a flaw, but even though it’s not the wild west anymore out here, it is still a relatively new industry. And I think the inconsistencies with like creator rates and pricing, and I think that topic has been really hot as the start of 2023.
Creators will do in a kind of trade and post TikTok and have a 100K followers. Granted, we have a full rate for that and it’s like there’s a lot of inconsistencies there and I think sometimes that puts some creators with the upper hand and then commanders and vice versa.
I think it’s just really like the fact that everything is so unique in this industry, that’s hard to have a perfect formula or a perfect approach because it’s all so different, and I think that’s where a lot of the questions come in.
[00:14:10] Jessy: That’s totally valid. And we can fix a lot of those issues. So I hope to see more of that this year. I think our industry is flawed many ways, but, maybe that’s a harsh word. I get that. I am certainly solutions oriented, so in that spirit I would hear about what you guys have observed or worked on.
So like what’s a cool campaign that you’ve come across that you think is worth a shout out? Who wants to start?
[00:14:41] Molly: Lisa, you have so many good ones.
[00:14:44] Lisa: Thank you. I was like, I’m happy. I love this question. I actually want to highlight, the campaigns or projects that have multiple touchpoints. So not just an Instagram story ad or not just a TikTok ad, not just social media. Maybe there’s like an event tied into it.
So I would say my two most fun, cool, and successful campaigns were something that tied in, all those touchpoints. I worked with one of my creators, Nasim Lahbichi, he’s a food creator out of New York City.
We did an amazing, event with Urban Outfitters and Stanley, the Stanley Cup that I am literally drinking out of right now. And the goal of the campaign was that Stanley was launching unique quenchers.
Were able to host an event in the Urban Outfitter stores, my clients did a recipe demo. It was so much fun. We had over a hundred people attend, and the best part about it was there was the awareness, there was the content they wanted. There was foot traffic in the store that they wanted, they made sales.
My favorite part of this campaign is something I wanna highlight, I think should move more. Part of campaigns moving forward is there is a give back component, which is something that myself and Nasim like my client, really pushed for.
So a percentage of all the sales and the brands themselves donated to a nonprofit organization, during this event. And they also raised money for a sustainability focused nonprofit and based in Brooklyn, New York.
So I think , all the different touchpoints. There was social stuff there. There was the in-person piece, there was PR pushed out for it. So some like media coverage. And there was also the give back piece that really, allowed us to be even more excited to work with these brands and meet all these people in real life. And that just like really flourished.
And we’ve been working with them ongoing since then, so a lot of good came out of that. And I think we can all learn that we can branch out a little bit from just like our Instagram stories to do some more fun things like that.
[00:16:45] Jessy: I hope so, because just doing an Instagram story, one post and one story and basic usage and all that, like it just gets boring, for everybody involved. I can assume for like the agency of record for the influencers, they feel like they’re not able to be creative in the followers, their communities, like they’re just seeing the same thing over and over again.
So I could imagine that everybody doesn’t want things to feel stale. We want things to feel fresh and fun and innovative. Innovative, oh my God. That’s the word that I think of and especially as like us in this industry, isn’t it exciting to innovate? I don’t wanna lose that. So I hope that people keep that in mind.
So what about you Molly? Are there any campaigns that you’ve either been a part of or observed that just did a really great job in your opinion? I wanna continue patting people on the back and shouting them out. What do you think?
[00:17:43] Molly: Yeah, I think we’ve been really lucky that most of our roster has been with us for the last five years, which is just so much fun. Cause we get to see them in like different life stages. So like we’ve worked with a brand like minted over the years to do. Wedding invites to then baby shower invites, which is so much fun. And same thing with a bed bath and beyond.
Like we did their wedding registry together and then we did their baby registry up by baby. And so it’s just really nice to see a brand carry through, life stages with your influencers.
But we do have an exciting one coming up. I did a LinkedIn post about this yesterday, but we did recently, land a dream partnership for one of our clients, which was like, truly like a bucket list for her. And it’s something I’ve been pitching for over a year and it’s one of those brands that, it’s not that she’s just like a genuine fan, like she is truly, she’s a body positivity influencer.
This is a brand that really made her feel, for the first time really seen in her skin and really appreciate her body. And so it’s just gonna be the best campaign because she’s not only gonna be able to speak to it, it’s like a fan of the brand, but truly it’s so meaningful to her. And so..
[00:18:47] Jessy: Can we say brand name? Could we say the influencer or is it too soon?
[00:18:51] Molly: We can, it’s FashionVeggie, is her name. Her name is also Molly, which isn’t confusing at all. And it’s Dove.
[00:18:57] Jessy: Aw Dove. That is so cool. Congratulations on that.
[00:19:01] Molly: Thank you.
[00:19:01] Jessy: I can..
[00:19:02] Molly: Thank you.
[00:19:02] Jessy: Definitely imagine that she is over the moon. That’s a great brand to be partnering with. So shout out to them. Very cool and I assume that you’ll be sharing updates on how it’s going on your socials and stuff.
[00:19:16] Molly: Yes.
[00:19:16] Jessy: So I look forward to watching and observing and we’re gonna be sharing your socials later on, so stay tuned for that, everyone. Let’s bring it back to the beginning a little bit, right? Everyone has a different entryway point into influencer marketing and everyone gets into it for different reasons.
Lisa, what are some of the reasons that you got into influencer marketing? And then my next question is has it lived up to the hype?
[00:19:44] Lisa: Wow. Loaded question. Okay, so just a quick background. I won’t go into too much detail, but I started my career in Sports PR and Media, and then I found myself working, for a CPG brand and the wellness natural products industry for about seven years. And I worked in PR, media, social media, and then influencer marketing came on the scene and it was something that I was really interested.
And was able to launch for the brand I was working with for so long, and I realized in the last couple of years of my position at the CPG brand I worked for, I realized that like I was dreading a lot of my work besides the, like influencer activations we’re doing or besides being able to talk to potential influencer partners or creator partners, like over the phone.
Like I was just like really loving the connections I was making with them. They were all just so talented. It was like very interesting to me. And so I honestly, a lot of them be, some of them are literally my best friends to this day if they’re not my clients.
So I just think. in my more corporate America, nine to five life. There was this outlook that, you couldn’t necessarily don’t be friends with your coworkers, don’t mix home and work and all of those things that like people tell you, but that’s not my style. Like I want to be friends with the people I work with. I wanna have fun every day at work.
And I loved these creators, I was meeting for the most. and, I saw an opportunity to branch out and work with some of them. And here I am, I actually February 4th, which is in three days from when we’re recording, this will be my official one year anniversary of being full-time with LG-PR. So yeah,
[00:21:34] Jessy: YEEEEH!
[00:21:35] Lisa: I wanted no, I’m really excited. Thank you. Has it lived up to the hype? I think the follow up question here. For that reason. Yes. But I will say, obviously being an entrepreneur and all the ins and outs that are in it, and one thing that I will elaborate more on later, like the stigma around managers being a certain type of way, there have been those obstacles along the way, but hasn’t up to the hype. So far so good. I’m only a year in, so we’ll check in another like six months.
[00:22:08] Jessy: Fair. Fair. And there’s a stigma around talent.
[00:22:13] Lisa: I was brand side and I was part of creating that stigma when I was brand side. Youth and talent manager. The word agent, I feel like it’s, has this like money hungry, aggressive, like Wall Street vibe to it and I think a lot of brand reps and agency reps have that mindset when a manager gets looped into an email.
And I think my biggest struggle, and actually now a goal of mine as a manager is to like break that stereotype a little bit because if you like hang out with us on this podcast like we’re not only hardworking people and who love our clients and talent, but like we’re nice.
[00:22:52] Molly: Nice.
[00:22:52] Lisa: And it’s just like.
[00:22:53] Molly: We’re nice.
[00:22:54] Lisa: We are nice! Stop treating us like we’re here to steal your money out from under you. That is not the case.
[00:22:59] Molly: I wanna make your money work harder for you. Like I want to make more money, with my clients.
[00:23:05] Lisa: Yes. Like we are here in your corner. We are here to be collaborative. We’re not here to take, just take your money and run. We’re here like most of us. That has been my biggest, I don’t wanna say disappointment, but a little bit disappointment being in this industry.
Is that that’s the immediate reaction or attitude I get from some people before they even hear five words come out of my mouth and it’s a little upsetting.
[00:23:28] Jessy: I think that like managers, lawyers, we fall into the camp of it’s so easy to hate on managers and lawyers and people.
[00:23:39] Lisa: Yeah.
[00:23:39] Jessy: People like that. And it’s like we’re all talking about wanting to break stereotypes and wanting to be open-minded and wanting to be collaborative, so I appreciate that you’re bringing this up because I feel like as much as people say a lot of those things, those stereotypes about talent managers absolutely still exist.
You were on the other side. You experienced it from that side and now you’re on the talent management side, experiencing it, like on the receiving end of it. What about you, Molly? Do you get the similar vibes from people?
[00:24:10] Molly: I’m like very lucky where it’s really few and far between where I don’t run into too many issues. But I was thinking about it last night, Lisa, when we were talking about it. The idea that some brands will say oh, we wanna do a briefing call, but we only do it with the talent and we won’t do it if the manager’s on the phone and I’m like, you would never meet with a brand that had co-founders with only one of those co-founders.
Like we are their business partner, like we are our clients business partner, we are their managers like we are most of the time the strategy behind their business because they’re the creative. So having us on the phone, Shouldn’t be an interference. It’s really we’re there to help you think more strategically about how to put this campaign together, because we are the ones that are talking about your KPIs.
Our creator’s there to really think about the creative and how am I gonna bring this together and how am I going to make this interesting for my audience, and how am I gonna make it engaging for them? Whereas we’re on the other side saying, how are we gonna meet your goals? Whatever those are.
So it’s a two-pronged approach, and I don’t think that you can have a really effective conversation on strategy and creative without having both people in the room, both people being creator and agent
[00:25:17] Jessy: if you have a good manager, if you have a good agent, like I’ll also play devil’s advocate on that too, and like managers.
[00:25:24] Molly: I was gonna say, yes, of course. If you need to have a good, manager. Yes.
[00:25:28] Lisa: These stereotypes, exist for a reason. We’ll put it out there.
[00:25:32] Jessy: They do.
[00:25:32] Molly: When I worked for agency side, there was definitely a couple of agents that we were like on the blackballed list of like they’re just too difficult to work with. It’s not enjoyable experience.
Like I say this all the time, it would like literally kill me. If at any point in time a brand was like, oh, I would love to work with Jess Keys, one of my clients. She crushes it. But Molly’s just so unbelievably difficult that we can’t even be bothered. That is my worst nightmare.
I think as managers and agents, like our job is just to be kind and to be nice, and I think , this industry is like 95% women, which I love. Like we get to do this all day long and chat and talk about things like relate to things outside of work. And so I just think kindness in this industry, especially with women, goes really far.
So I feel like Lisa and I always, talk about that. Like it’s just that’s how we lead our business.
[00:26:18] Jessy: And so yeah, if you have, someone incredible as part of the team, like it’s almost a missed opportunity if you don’t utilize them. So I would just challenge people in the brands that are the agency side that like, if you’re feeling some sort of way about a manager, just ask yourself what that’s about.
Because if it’s valid and they’re terrible, then that’s fine. But ask yourself why you’re feeling that way. And if it’s, because of another situation that you were in with somebody else, just know that that was that person and it isn’t necessarily this person.
And are you getting in your own way, perhaps because this manager could be an advocate for you. Like they could be somebody that could help this process along really nicely. So just putting that out there.
So I love that you guys both have been on the other side and, you’re not just talent managers, but you have been on the other side of the equation and I think that, that’s worth mentioning because of my next question, which is how can brands do better? Molly, let’s start with you on this one. How can brands do better generally?
[00:27:30] Molly: How can brands do better? I think Lisa touched on it earlier. I think the most important thing for us to know is your goals. And I think especially when you’re reaching out to an agency, cause a lot of agencies they’re friendly with brands. A lot of brands will reach out to us and say, I’m working on a campaign for X, Y, and Z. Is there anyone on your roster that would be a fit.
I think the first question is always, what is your goal? Because I have creators on my roster that I know can convert like crazy. And then I have other creators on my roster who are probably better for content creation, or better for a general brand awareness just cause they have a really strong reach.
I want to put the right people forward for you. I want to make sure that you feel like this campaign is successful and you look good to your bosses and so I think being really upfront there.
Flexibility would be like so unbelievable. There’s not nearly enough creative freedom happening in this industry. Like I just had to go to bat the other day with a brand about how they wanted us to bring together some like organic mentions for us. I said, still shots work for us, like still shot an organic mentioned. You’ll see an insane amount of clicks. Videos are not gonna do well. They were pushing me. I’m wanting to have videos for the story content.
I understand that this is in your brief, and I understand that you pitched this to the client and I understand that they paid you all this money to put together this 30 page brief. I’ve been there, I’ve done it, I’ve made them.
I’m telling you, that you are a performance marketing brand and I’m telling you what’s going to perform for my client.
Even if you find that, like for all the other creators that you’ve worked with, that video works best, still shots work best for my specific creator and her specific campaign, and you are contracting us to do a good job for you.
So listen to us , when we tell you what’s gonna work and what’s not gonna work, or if you’re looking for something specific in a brief, like key messaging, I’m like, that’s not gonna resonate with our audience, can we word it this way?
Creative flexibility is so important. Like I feel like especially now, like it’s 2023. Are we still doing this? It feels very 2015 to me to still be giving like very specific briefs. It’s just like in the age now where people have really been able to create communities over the last 10 years, like trust that creator to know what she’s doing and I say she, because I only have all women, but that would be my two things.
It’s really clear…
[00:29:44] Jessy: Love it.
[00:29:45] Molly: On goals and please, create a flexibility, like I promise you, we’re not being difficult. Like I’m trying to structure it so it works for you and so it performs better for you. It’s not just us being difficult.
[00:29:56] Jessy: Totally.
[00:29:57] Lisa: Yeah.
[00:29:57] Jessy: Lisa, what about you?
[00:29:58] Lisa: I would agree with everything that Molly said, but I also think, I mentioned this earlier on one of the campaigns I love doing and I think that like brands, agencies alike can all be better at is, like thinking about giving back as well in this industry because no matter which way we splice though, this is a lucrative industry. No matter if there’s ups and downs and ebbs and flows, there’s a lot of money in influencer marketing. There’s no denying.
And I implemented something with one of my talents in 2022 where we upfront asked, what, do you have any give back components or charitable components of the brand? Do you donate regularly?
It was something that we wanted to know about the brands we were working with cause it was so important to not only my talent but to myself. And we ended up being able to raise, tens of thousands of dollars last year for nonprofits through campaigns and working with brands and doing that, which is so exciting.
But I think that should be at the forefront of a lot of these brands initiatives to begin with. Like obviously they need to drive sales. We’re in the business of sales, as icky as that sounds sometimes. I get that. We gotta make money, we gotta make a living.
But also these brands that are spending big with creator, have the means to give back. And I just wanna highlight that in this conversation as something that I really hope we see more and more in that, being part of creator campaigns moving forward.
[00:31:30] Jessy: Go for it, Molly. whatever you want.
[00:31:32] Molly: I was gonna say, I think like on a more macro level too, I mean we can get very nuanced in this, but like on a macro level, I think a stronger push for diversity and inclusion in campaigns is something that I find that we’re still not seeing enough of in 2023.
Like I’m looking even like in our Wiim casting and I haven’t seen anything come through for Black History Month yet, and it’s February 1st. Like I think, trying to prioritize that and get ahead of it. I just feel every year we have the same conversation of okay, like February 1st, like we have to do something for Black History month, June 1st. We have to do something for pride.
Like I just think that it’s too much still of an afterthought for a lot of brands. And even more macro, I think like trying to get more influencers involved, truly rooted deeply in the business. Like I have a couple of creators that are ambassadors for different brands and like they’ve actually been able to like initiate change on like a company-wide level. Like they’ve been able to come into company and talk about DEI issues with them and work on new strategies.
And so, I think that there’s definitely ways that , it goes so beyond just like transactional campaigns. Like even Lisa saying, like what’s the charitable component like, I think utilizing influencers in their communities and the reach that they have with their audiences to really enact change is so important.
[00:32:51] Jessy: Yeah. I love that so much. So this past week was creator economy live conference, in Vegas. And someone asked a question during the panel that I was moderating, like essentially to that exact point. ” Panelists, what are you guys doing in terms of adding more, diversity and equity and inclusion in your campaigns?”
And I checked in with the guy after I didn’t know him, but I checked in with him after I was like, thank you for asking the question. How did you respond to the answers? And. he said what agree with exactly what he said. He’s like the answer that I got was exactly what I was expecting. It wasn’t necessarily what I wanted to hear.
And I just think that like controversial topic. I don’t think enough people really, truly believe in DEI. I don’t personally, this is just my opinion, I think that they do it to check boxes.
I think that they do it because there would be backlash if they didn’t. And there’s a few other reasons why they do it, but I don’t think they fundamentally like, really, truly believe in it.
This could be an entire conversation. And of course like, we’re three white women like chatting, together about this. So I don’t know, take what we’re saying with a grain of salt. Especially me, I’m the one preaching this right now, but it’s important and I just, feel if people really believed in it wholeheartedly 100% and understood why it’s important, like to the world, to culture, to their bottom line and just like really wholeheartedly like press the I believe button and believed it, then we wouldn’t just be having, black folks, on campaigns during the month of during Black History Month. And we wouldn’t just be having Hispanic influencers on campaigns during Hispanic Heritage Month.
Like we would just have them all the time. Like we would be color blinds and the world would just be a really phenomenal, better place.
I don’t know how to get there. I certainly don’t have answers. I love that you’re bringing this up. I do think that part of it is just, trying to infuse diversity year round like that is step one.
Kind of a pivot, but I’ll bring it back. I promise. I just saw this incredible show on Broadway called Kimberly Kimbo. If anybody’s in New York. It was like, phenomenal. So so good.
And I love that their casting was really colorblind. One of the main characters is black. And I’ll be honest, I was waiting to see like, why did they cast a black guy for this role?
And at the end of the show like, there was no reason, like he didn’t need to be black at all. It could have been Asian, it could have been white, it could have been anything. And I loved that, because like it was just bringing like color and diversity to a cast and just showing that we’re all more similar than we think.
And like it’s great to be able to see yourself in a performance when it’s not necessary, per se. So anyways, I’ll get off my soapbox, but I appreciate you saying that and you bringing that up.
And I would love to ask you guys, we were talking about like, how can brands do better? You both are managers. And we were talking about, a lot of them are good, some of them are not. Let’s be real about that. So for those people, how can managers do better? Lisa, do you wanna start with this one?
[00:36:13] Lisa: Yeah. I think a lot of the things we said apply to the other side too, but my big like hot tip, is click baity but like the number one thing I would tell managers, this is like almost figurative, pick up the phone, stop emailing with like here’s the rate by or, stop rushing through your inbox and get on the phone and meet these brands, these people. Advocate for your talent. Learn about what’s going on. Have a conversation, have emotion as part of it. Like managers are so stuck in the weed sometimes, and again, some days it’s like, I speak for myself, but I’m sure I could speak for at least half of the managers out there.
We work 14, 15 hours a day easy, and…
[00:36:59] Molly: Oh yeah.
[00:36:59] Lisa: We get stuck in our inboxes and it happens, but set up time block. Do what you need to do. Get on the phone with brands, get on the phone with agencies. Get on the phone with your talent. Say hi to them, go visit them.
Prioritize that relationship that we all preach, but don’t actually sometimes put the time in, like the work and time into. Pick up the phone, get outta your emails, get a little bit deeper in the conversations, because that’s going to make not only it a stronger, more trusted relationship, but that’s where the success is gonna come from.
And I think a lot of managers when I was on the brand side would send me rates and put their name at the bottom of the email. And let me tell you, that was the biggest turnoff on the brand side.
We would never even answer those. Don’t do that. And I think that’s where managers like in a big picture need to get better.
[00:37:50] Jessy: I don’t know that I understood. So they would send you their roster and just sign it and you just wanted something more personal? Is that what the turnoff was?
[00:37:57] Lisa: Yeah, it was how short it wasn’t necessarily cause they’ve responded to an email, like you have to do that, but it’s like I would ask for a scope of work and maybe some information or whatever the case may be and they would just be like, sure, rates below, like in their name.
Very short, no context. And for brands that are building these campaigns and trying to find the right person, they need more context. And also, this goes back to being kinder in general, like they need more kindness too. Like they want to work with you and your talent.
Don’t just short answer them, send them rates and be on your merry way in your inbox. That’s not gonna do anyone any good. Put some thought behind it, schedule a call. Take the extra step, cause I think that is what is gonna make you and your talent stand out to a brand team or an agency.
[00:38:47] Jessy: I cosign Molly. Go for it. What do you have to say?
[00:38:50] Molly: I’m a nothing but an echo chamber. Like I think I had a brand say to me last week your emails are always so nice. And I’m like, do you just get emails that say thanks, period, and send. And she goes, literal.
She goes, literally, Molly, every day. I’m like, what? Nine times outta 10 my clients are not CC’d on emails to save their inbox. I email as if my client is in the room with me always. I would never send an email that I would not want my client to see. I would never send an email that my client would be embarrassed in how I’m speaking on their behalf.
You always act as if your client is in the room with you and a thousand percent get on the phone. All the magic happens on the phone. That’s where you make the best relationships. And as a manager, all you have is relationships in this industry.
Like Lisa and I are, we pitch a lot for our business. It’s a part of how her and I have structured our business. We pitch our clients. Often our clients look to us to bring them new opportunities. And so if you are not sitting back just managing inbound stuff, like you are out there hustling, you’re meeting everybody, I’m taking coffee meetings, Zoom meetings, I’m flying out to New York to do agency meetings.
Like you have to talk to people, IRL like email really not enough to build enough rapport. So yes, pick the phone.
[00:40:01] Jessy: Pick up the phone and stand out. I love that. I think, I’ll be honest, like I fall into that trap sometimes. Like I’m not the most like Chatty Cathy type person, so like an email sometimes, like I can just naturally by default seem like curt in emails and short and sweet, just to the point.
So I think that’s a really good like check and balance for myself and hopefully people listening too, which is, would your client feel comfortable and like proud of this response on their behalf? If they were looped into this email and if it was just short and sweet, like maybe not , probably not like that.
You are the first line of defense in a lot of different instances as their manager, and they are trusting, that like you’re putting their best foot forward, you’re speaking on their behalf. So I think it’s hugely important.
Speaking of, how we can all do better, how do that women generally can work together better in our industry? What do you think, Lisa?
[00:41:05] Lisa: Be more open. I feel like I’m like, sound like a therapist on this call. Call people, hang out with people. You should go to therapy too. How can women do better in our industry? I really think, I’ve learned a lot from just having an open communication with someone like Molly, a fellow manager, someone who is like more like-minded.
I cannot tell you how many campaigns I’ve gotten from her sharing a contact, her making an email intro. Hopefully she’s gotten a few from vice versa. I don’t know ?
[00:41:32] Molly: Yes, yes.
[00:41:33] Lisa: Okay. Yes. But like we don’t need to gate keep here. Okay. I know there’s competition in this industry and that happens and there’s always unique cases where maybe we wanna keep things to ourselves until it pans out for our talent.
Totally makes sense. You have to be business smart. But I think we could, share contacts more to be like, tact like that, share contacts. Make introductions where possible and just be a united front, especially in like the independent management industry, like these larger agencies have those teams behind them where Molly and I’m grateful that I have a full-time assistant now and we all have Kristen, another shout out.
But a lot of people probably in Wiim are a one woman show and we need support too. So Wiim is a great place to start.
[00:42:21] Jessy: I love that and I just think that like we can all really just be there for each other in a multitude of ways. Like I would say Molly, I’ll just be transparent, I haven’t even told you this, but like the last time that we connected on a video call, like I felt like I got to know you so much better and I don’t know, I felt more connected to you and least I feel like that on this call, even today, I am like, I like Lisa, so much and we’ll slack cause we’re in the same slack board for Wiim and we will email and I know that we have each other in common in terms of Kristen and what have you, but nothing beats this. I’ll tell you what does beat it. An in person like experience, that’s the only thing that beats us.
But this is the closest you can get. And if you live in different cities, it goes such a long way. So I love that. My final question for you ladies, it’s a fun one. Fuck, marry, kill Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. Who wants to start?
[00:43:19] Lisa: I know my answer, but…
[00:43:21] Jessy: okay.
[00:43:22] Lisa: I don’t know what, let me just get the kill out there. Listen, I’m not a YouTube girlie. Never been a YouTube girlie. Don’t get me wrong, it’s probably potential for marriage for some people in this scenario cause it’s like stable for the long haul.
[00:43:38] Jessy: It’s longevity.
[00:43:39] Lisa: Yes, longevity. But listen, it’s got the axe from me. I’m gonna be honest. Like YouTube, not into, it doesn’t hold my attention.
I’m not a YouTube, person. I think YouTube creators are amazing, but it’s gotta go. I would fuck TikTok because it’s the new hot thing. Hello? What else are you gonna do with that?
[00:44:00] Molly: She’s spicy. Yeah.
[00:44:02] Lisa: Yeah.
[00:44:02] Molly: She’s a little spicy.
[00:44:03] Jessy: Spicy.
[00:44:04] Lisa: And then, I almost killed Instagram. I’m not gonna lie, but I’m gonna marry Instagram because she’s my og girly. I know people shit on Instagram and everyone’s TikTok is a new place to be. Yes. TikTok’s, sure.
But there’s so much more to Instagram that’s not gonna go away anytime soon. And it’s part of Meta, which is ultimately, if they need to adapt Instagram and do the things they need to do, they have the team, they have the experience and everything to make that happen and to keep it alive. So I’m gonna marry my girl IG. That’s mine.
[00:44:37] Jessy: Okay. I love it. I love it so much. All right, Molly, what say you.
[00:44:41] Molly: I’m killing YouTube too. Sorry.
[00:44:44] Lisa: Oh my God. Really? I thought you were gonna marry YouTube.
[00:44:46] Molly: No, I’m killing YouTube. I’m not a YouTube girly either, actually, honestly, mine are the same. I’m gonna fuck TikTok because, it’s young and spicy. And then I’m gonna marry IG, but I’m gonna throw a curve ball and I’m gonna side chick blog because I do believe in that.
[00:45:03] Lisa: I knew you…
[00:45:03] Molly: I know, she’s my mistress. She’s my sidecheck. I gotta keep her on, she belongs there .
[00:45:08] Jessy: That’s hilarious. Okay, so fuck, marry, kill sidecheck.
[00:45:12] Lisa: Jessy what’s yours?
[00:45:14] Jessy: Okay. Definitely fuck TikTok cause like it would be hella fun. Fuck TikTok for sure. I would marry YouTube.
[00:45:24] Molly: That’s nice.
[00:45:25] Jessy: I love YouTube. I watch YouTube on my television. We were talking about it last night cause like my YouTube algorithm is like all fucked up because, I was like on a work trip, whatever.
Like he just watched so much YouTube and now I’m like, babe, we need different profiles because yes, I like to see certain things on my algorithm and that do not involve 3D printing and science. Sometimes I’m into it, but not all the time.
So I love YouTube. I agree, stable, been around for a long time, but enjoyable as well. YouTube, and then I would kill Instagram. I think that if you ask me in a year from now? Would I say the same thing? I don’t know, but as it stands, that’s my answer. And then, now I’m gonna add a sidecheck. I love LinkedIn, so I think like LinkedIn would be my sidecheck.
Cause I love, LinkedIn.
[00:46:19] Lisa: I’m getting into linkedIn lately.
[00:46:20] Jessy: It’s safe.
[00:46:21] Lisa: I’m feeling it, I’m making friends. I’m on there.
[00:46:25] Molly: We’re vibing right now.
[00:46:26] Jessy: Yes, totally. LinkedIn is really fun. I’m part of their creator program. I always say I’m that nerd. I love them. I always speak their praises.
It’s like the perfect place because you work in a creative field, with social media and it is a social media platform, but it’s like a professional place where you wanna also feel like you’re making progress in, your professional relationship. So it’s like the perfect place. You can say all sorts of stuff, make all sorts of connections, but meaningful professional ones.
So sidecheck LinkedIn.
[00:46:58] Molly: Love it.
[00:46:59] Jessy: So maybe in this like salacious, other story like maybe the sidecheck becomes my second marriage.
I was gonna say I think you’re leaving Youtube, for LinkedIn
[00:47:10] Molly: Yeah, he’s…
[00:47:12] Jessy: Maybe YouTube and I are on the rock. Yeah.
[00:47:15] Lisa: I love that. They’re just all girls, by the way. We didn’t even like branch out into men like girlies no.
[00:47:21] Molly: Girls .
[00:47:23] Jessy: We didn’t, I could keep chatting with you girls all day, but, for the spirit of this episode not being three hours long, I assume that a lot of our members would love to reach out to you and connect with you.
So where can our community, find you if they wanna connect? What about you, Molly? And we’ll go to Lisa.
[00:47:44] Molly: We’re just on IG @VRAI Digital. V R A I come hang out. We have a lot of fun over there. LinkedIn, VRAIgigital.com. I don’t know. I love hearing from brands like new agents. I love mentoring new agents.
That’s like my new faith thing. I’ve been doing it for a long time, so love to share knowledge. So come find me.
[00:48:04] Jessy: I love that. And what about you, Lisa?
[00:48:06] Lisa: And my Instagram website is @theLGPR. My business is just called LGPR, but I had to put the, the because LGPR was taken on everything. So it’s @theLGPR and also, yeah, connect with me on LinkedIn.
My full name is Lisa Poe, last name Poe. Happy to hang out there too, or Instagram. I have a lot of fun doing my Instagram for work, so yeah, you could probably tell by like my highlights and stuff. So anyway, come hang out.
[00:48:36] Jessy: All right, amazing. And we will link all of those in the show notes below. Thank you ladies so, so much for joining today and we will see you all next week.
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