Creators’ Attorney Explains How Creators Can Make Big Money

Tyler Chou is the Creators’ Attorney, who started a YouTube channel called Tyler Chou The Creators’ Attorney (formerly The Hollywood Attorney) and quickly grew to 20,000 subs within 3 months. She is currently and absolutely living her dream life. She founded her own law firm (Tyler Chou Law for Creators) where she works all day long with creators, helping them build out their businesses, using YouTube as their creativity incubator but also the marketing arm of their business. She is more than an attorney—she is her clients’ confidante, coach and biggest cheerleader.



[00:00:00] Tyler Chou: Get an LLC done immediately, especially for creators. a lot of creators come to me and ask me, when should I incorporate. And I’m like, immediately, because what people don’t realize is when you have a corporation, it protects your private personal assets, right? If you get sued because of your business or your YouTube channel, if you don’t have an LLC in place, that’s a lack of protection there, right?

[00:00:33] Jessy Grossman: Hello, everybody. Welcome to the party. Hopefully, I can get this intro right for you guys. I’m a little bit of a mess today. I’m like getting over, I don’t even know what, something. It wasn’t COVID. Thank goodness. But it’s that time of year, you guys. I feel like everybody’s getting sick. Everybody’s got something and I didn’t escape it.

[00:00:53] Jessy Grossman: I’m just seriously so happy that it wasn’t COVID. I had this I’m sure that’s [00:01:00] why you tuned in to this podcast to hear about my cough. So if I sound a little wonky, that’s why, but we are in the home stretch, you guys, of planning and. Kicking off our job fair that’s happening January 30th, this month at the end of this month when you guys are tuning in, it might not have happened yet, depending on when you listen to this episode.

[00:01:25] Jessy Grossman: So if you catch this in time, I highly encourage you to check it out. You would go to iamwim. com slash event slash job fair, which we will share on the screen. Now, so we are hosting the shop. We’ve hosted job fairs at least twice a year for the last few. It’s such an incredible event. So I’m so excited about this one.

[00:01:48] Jessy Grossman: We have great companies who are involved. Basically, we humanize—a job board. So I’ve been doing a lot more recruiting this year with my [00:02:00] consultancy, Tribe Monday. And I’ve just like noticed a lot of things that are broken in that industry and just like in job searching in general. And mostly JD’s job descriptions are very inaccurate.

[00:02:17] Jessy Grossman: And like, Not taking into account the realities of what job seekers are looking for. So what we aim to do in this event, and I think we’ve been largely really successful with it, is humanizing a job board. So like we have a virtual stage, it’s a virtual event, and we get all of our hiring managers on the stage.

[00:02:39] Jessy Grossman: They each have Two to three minutes to just go over, like, why don’t you work for this company? Like, what sets you apart from other companies in the industry or other companies that are out there at all? And we try to get to know these people. We spend more time [00:03:00] at work sometimes than we spend with our family most of the time.

[00:03:03] Jessy Grossman: And so, like, I just want for us to get an accurate reflection. of what the role is, what the culture’s like, and things like that. After we have everyone sort of do a share, an initial share about their companies, we have breakout sessions. And so you can speak one-on-one directly with hiring managers.

[00:03:24] Jessy Grossman: You’re in a group setting, so it’s not private, but we’ve had dozens of people hired from these events, which is. incredible. It’s huge. So we’re going to continue to host these. Anyways, if you are looking for a job, you should check out our website. We’ll drop the URL on the screen right now, but in case you’re listening, it’s Iamwim.

[00:03:44] Jessy Grossman: com slash event slash job fair. Again, I A M W I M.

[00:03:54] Jessy Grossman: And there you can see it’s a completely free event for job seekers and for people who are [00:04:00] hiring. There’s a small fee unless you’re a member. And if you’re a member of WIIM, you participate completely for free. So definitely check out our site. If you want to participate on either end of the spectrum, we would love, love, love to have you.

[00:04:12] Jessy Grossman: And I hope that like in the next few weeks, I can share success stories from that event. I freaking love sharing success stories. Stories from this event. So we have a guest this week who is phenomenal. So her name is Tyler Chow and she is a lawyer in the creator economy. She’s a creator economy attorney.

[00:04:34] Jessy Grossman: We were connected. A few months ago someone who is, I just, I’m over the moon about. She’s a member of WIM and she was like, you should connect with her. She’s great. She didn’t even have to honestly say that much, like a referral from her. I’m just like, I’m all me with her finally. Like, of course.

[00:04:52] Jessy Grossman: So we met. And she’s great. She lives in California., I invited her to come on the podcast today so you guys can get [00:05:00] to know her as well. So we talked about her childhood and growing up and her upbringing, her origins, like how, why, and how she created an entire law practice dedicated to the creator economy, the types of clients that she has, advice that she has for you guys, but also what sets her apart, which I wanted to talk about on the show.

[00:05:21] Jessy Grossman: I’m intrigued by it at least, is she’s not just your like run-of-the-mill lawyer. She has 300, 000 subscribers on YouTube. So good for her. And I think that is transferable to a lot of you guys who are listening. You don’t have to be a lawyer to be a business owner and appreciate personal branding and your business marketing, which she has done an incredible job at.

[00:05:51] Jessy Grossman: Building this incredible YouTube channel for herself. So we talked a little bit about that as well. The toughest parts of building her law [00:06:00] firm and advice that she has to give to you guys as you’re navigating the legalities of the creator economy. It’s a great episode. She’s awesome. And I’m excited for you guys to listen.

[00:06:11] Jessy Grossman: Thank you guys so, so much for being a part of this show. I want to pause and I want to give you guys a heartfelt. Warm thank you, because I’ve been doing this show now for, I mean, we’re at well over 200 episodes. It’s probably one of the most consistent things I’ve had in my life ever.

[00:06:35] Jessy Grossman: And I don’t know, the fact that you guys tune in week over week and you’re, Hungry for information and you care so much about your career and you want to succeed and I don’t know, I appreciate how much you enjoy what I enjoy, which is all these conversations with such cool guests, but also that you just support this show and it means a lot.

[00:06:58] Jessy Grossman: I’m going to be doing a lot [00:07:00] more. Solo episodes coming up to get a little bit more personal with you guys. So hopefully that resonates with some people. I know on the show, I’ve discussed things like my fertility journey and gotten personal about some of my business, upbringing, and the highs and the lows of running my own business.

[00:07:17] Jessy Grossman: So I’d love. To hear from you guys, though, what topics as we plan out the rest of 2024 resonate with you and what you want to hear about, who you want to hear from, whether it’s, myself or you’re just like, no, I’m good with that. Just like, I want to hear more guests. Who do you want to hear from?

[00:07:35] Jessy Grossman: I will not be offended. I just want to make you, I want to make sure this is enjoyable, the show for you guys. And when I have to be like, go into a new era, I feel like every few months I want to sort of like reinvent the show to a certain extent and add something new, add something cool and enjoyable.

[00:07:53] Jessy Grossman: And I’m in that era now, like that transition. So the best way, it’s like to us on [00:08:00] Instagram. It’s at I am wiim. So I a m w I’m just sending us a to be like, Hey, I was listening to this, the episode and I would love for you to dive into this topic or that topic, whether it’s. personal and about women generally, or very specifically about influencer marketing, timely topics we love.

[00:08:21] Jessy Grossman: So send us your recommendations. And if you want to apply to be interviewed, you always can. I feel like not enough people. Recognize that they’re like, Oh, well, she must hand pick the people who were interviewed, and like to a certain extent we do. But if you’re not on our radar, get on our radar girls. So go on our website.

[00:08:40] Jessy Grossman: I’m wind. com slash podcast. There is a place where you can apply to be a guest on the show. We would love to have you and tell us your story. And you’re going to hear from Tyler right now about her story. Enjoy this episode, guys.

[00:08:57] Jessy Grossman: This show is sponsored by Women in [00:09:00] Influencer Marketing, better known as WIIM, the best online community for the creator economy. You will meet fellow influencer marketers, you’ll meet brands, you’ll meet talent agencies to talk shop, and get hired. and even find a mentor. When you become a member, do not forget to check out all of our incredible resources.

[00:09:20] Jessy Grossman: For example, we have dozens of masterclasses from the top voices of TikTok, YouTube, award-winning agencies, and women who are paving the way for us all. So if you want the chance to network with a free school in influencer marketing, check out what it takes to become a member. Make more money and have fun doing it.

[00:09:42] Jessy Grossman: Visit I am wim.com/join. That’s I-A-M-W-I im.com/join today and I so look forward to seeing you more around the community. So I’m just grateful to have you come [00:10:00] onto the show today. I think like. We connected a few months back with a mutual connection who’s also a member of WIM and was like, you have to meet Tyler.

[00:10:10] Jessy Grossman: She’s great. And we met and now I get to have you on the show. So thank you for being here today. How are you? 

[00:10:17] Tyler Chou: I’m so well, Jessie. Thank you so much for having me. It’s such an honor. I think you have such a great organization and a group of women who are so incredibly warm and supportive and super smart.

[00:10:31] Tyler Chou: So I’m really happy to be a member as well. And thank you for having me on. I’m so excited. 

[00:10:37] Jessy Grossman: Totally. You’re part of that group now. So I’m really happy to have you on. I feel like there’s a lot of Just like knowledge share that we’re going to have today. You have your law practice and you’ve just seen so much in the industry.

[00:10:52] Jessy Grossman: So we’re going to get into all of it today. But I think like before we get into the nitty gritty of influencer marketing, creator economy, and all that stuff, [00:11:00] I just like to. Have our listeners, especially myself, like just get to know you a little bit more. So tell us, like, let’s go back to the beginning.

[00:11:10] Jessy Grossman: Let’s like start from there. I’d love to just learn a little bit more, like where are you from? And like, even like what you wanted to be as a kid, like, did you always grow up wanting to be in an artistic field or the legal field? Like tell 

[00:11:23] Tyler Chou: us more about that. Well, I love this question. Thank you. People usually don’t go that far back, but I think, where we come from and, where our childhoods were is very important because it really kind of molds us to be who we are.

[00:11:37] Tyler Chou: So I was born in Taiwan and I came here when I was seven. My parents came two years before me and left me for two years. So that was kind of a tough time. But I came when I was seven and we grew up in the Ontario Claremont area, which is about an hour outside of LA, which is where I live now.

[00:11:56] Tyler Chou: And I grew up working in the swap meets, like we grew up [00:12:00] poor, even though that was not how I was born. I was born when I was born, my dad was one of the wealthiest men in Asia and through. his vice president embezzling all his money. Like me, the company collapsed. And so they had to come to America with like 500 to their names.

[00:12:17] Tyler Chou: So I grew up in a school where I was the only Asian, I was very shy. I read a lot. I loved books like that. What they were kind of like my safety blanket is where I went. Like I read probably three to five books a week. And so as a child, I wanted to be a writer. Like that was my dream. Like I wanted to be a novelist and it kind of never wavered.

[00:12:36] Tyler Chou: I mean, I. There was like, okay, maybe I’ll be a lawyer ’cause that’s practical. And it uses the written word. And so that would be cool. So throughout I wanted to be an English major. So I went to Berkeley as an English major. My focus was Jane Austen as I love I’m a total Anglophile.

[00:12:55] Tyler Chou: And so I said to myself, in high school, I was like, if I publish a [00:13:00] book, then I’ll. I won’t go to college, which was silly, but you know, I didn’t publish a book. And then in college, I was like, if I publish a book, but the thing about, writing is I’ve never finished a novel because I think, Oh, if I finish it, then I have to put it out into the world.

[00:13:13] Tyler Chou: And that’s scary. So I’ve never done that. So in college, I decided because, my parents, still don’t speak much English. I have two younger siblings. I went to law school to be practical and to take care of them. And I wanted to be a DA, from a very young age, I think it’s because I was bullied.

[00:13:31] Tyler Chou: So I always wanted to champion the victims of the world. So I went to law school wanting to be a DA and worked my first summer at the DA’s office, but then, through, because they weren’t hiring, I went into business litigation and realized that I wasn’t making that big of a difference. I mean, people don’t realize this about litigation, but 90 percent of cases do not go to trial.

[00:13:54] Tyler Chou: They’re always settled out of court. You go to a settlement conference, you write your client a [00:14:00] letter saying, I got you 10, 000. And that’s it. Like you don’t even, you don’t like to make any difference in anyone’s life. So in my second year as an attorney, I decided I wanted to represent creatives, right? Like I’ve always loved writers.

[00:14:12] Tyler Chou: And so a lot of my friends who are writers would bring me, their writing contracts in Hollywood. And I was like, Oh, this is interesting. So through knocking. On a lot of doors, switching to an unpaid position to get my foot in the door, because that’s what you do in Hollywood, right? you pay your dues.

[00:14:29] Tyler Chou: I got into Hollywood. I’ve worked at companies like Disney, Buzzfeed, Skydance, as well as a lot of big law firms. And I’ve represented big talent, like. Tom Hanks and Marisa Tomei and I’ve been on the, I’ve been the lead attorney on 18 feature films. So that’s kind of like my legal career and kind of like how I got there.

[00:14:49] Tyler Chou: And then in 2022, I had a midlife crisis. I have always wanted, been wanting to be creative. And I asked myself, what is my [00:15:00] creative legacy that I’m leaving in the world? And, my kids are my greatest legacy, but like my husband gets to leave, he designs airports all over the world. So there are like huge airports, all the San Francisco airports, Incheon, Auckland, they’re all his.

[00:15:13] Tyler Chou: And I’m like, Oh, what do I want to leave something behind? I was watching a YouTube channel, Ali Abdaal’s, and he had this course called the part-time YouTube Academy. And geared toward professionals who want to start a YouTube channel. And I was like, Oh, this would be great. So I took his course and I said, I’m just going to start a YouTube channel.

[00:15:31] Tyler Chou: So I started a YouTube channel called the Hollywood Attorney and I never told anybody. I didn’t tell my work. I didn’t tell anyone in the industry about it because when you’re a Hollywood attorney, You’re supposed to be super tight-lipped. Everything’s confidential. Like you don’t share any details and I didn’t, right?

[00:15:48] Tyler Chou: I kind of just share kind of broadly, this is how you put a movie together. This is an actor deal. And then somebody gave me the idea of kind of grabbing a trending story and then giving a legal analysis on it. [00:16:00] So at the time the Try Guys drama was happening. Do you remember that when that happened?

[00:16:05] Tyler Chou: Absolutely. Absolutely. I was like. was caught, sleeping with one of his employees. And because I worked at BuzzFeed, I was at VidSummit that year. And one of my friends, Sarah, one of the keto twins said, you should do a video on this. So I went home, made a three-minute video and that video just blew up.

[00:16:23] Tyler Chou: Like it got like, hundreds of thousands of views. And I only had 200 like subscribers on my channel. And so that was kind of like the start of my YouTube channel. And it was so hard as we’ve talked about. Starting a YouTube channel and growing it is probably one of the hardest things. And I would say it might even be harder than law school or having kids.

[00:16:43] Tyler Chou: I mean, it’s just really hard. What 

[00:16:46] Jessy Grossman: are some of the hardest things about it? Like, I’d love to dig into that a little bit because I think that a lot of people have experienced that, but a lot of other people are curious, about what has. been some of the biggest struggles for you? Is it just like figuring out what works?

[00:16:59] Jessy Grossman: Is it [00:17:00] keeping up with it? Like what has it, what’s been the struggle for you 

[00:17:03] Tyler Chou: personally? Yeah, that’s a great question. So I think one thing is just, yes, it’s making a video every week, right? So for about a year, I try to get a video out. And I was working as a full-time attorney in Hollywood with two young kids, so I would be filming nights and weekends, after everyone went to sleep, usually between the hours of 10 p.

[00:17:24] Tyler Chou: m. and 2 a.m. And then I would send the videos to my editors in India and they would, and then it was just like constantly every free minute I was either filming or editing or giving feedback. And it’s also a very lonely journey. I know a lot of the members and WIM probably has clients who are creators.

[00:17:44] Tyler Chou: Like, they are, it’s a very lonely career, right? Because most traditional careers in the corporate world, you get to go talk to somebody, you get to be part of a team, you have a boss, which might not be a great thing, but you know, it’s like you, you get to interact with [00:18:00] people when you’re a creator on YouTube.

[00:18:02] Tyler Chou: It’s just you, it’s you and the camera. Now. There’s a part of that I love about it, right? This is why I’m so passionate about protecting and supporting creators. I have been part of the Hollywood machine and Hollywood is controlled by a few men, basically, right? Like the studio heads, right? And they are the ones who deem your story worthy of being told.

[00:18:26] Tyler Chou: And that is, I’ve seen hundreds and hundreds of projects die in development. And it’s so sad, these amazing screenplays that will never see the light of day. But when you’re a YouTuber, you have an idea, you turn on your camera, and within a couple of days, you could have it out into the world. I mean, how amazing is that?

[00:18:43] Tyler Chou: And it could blow up and it could lead to, your channel blowing up and, You could quit your job. And then you, you’re the media company. This is what I tell my clients, right? They think their YouTube channel is their business. And I said, no like your YouTube channel [00:19:00] is your, the marketing arm of your business.

[00:19:01] Tyler Chou: You’re the media company, you’re the actor, you’re the writer, you’re the producer, you’re the director, you’re the editor, you’re the distributor. How much power is that? Right. And how amazing is that? So You weigh on one side how lonely it can be, but you know, the payoff is huge. I have, I represent a lot of huge creators, from a hundred thousand, to up to 13 million.

[00:19:24] Tyler Chou: I just acquired, I just had a new client sign up who has 13 million subs and. They make six figures with AdSense and brand deals, and it’s a legitimate business and a career that you can make money from. Now, I would like, I help my clients think about how to get you to seven to eight to nine figures with like a course or product launch, right?

[00:19:45] Tyler Chou: That’s really where the next level is, right? Everyone should have a Mr. Beast Feasibles or Emma Chamberlain coffee or prime hydration. or skim. I mean, she’s not a creator, but these are products that people want to buy from people. And I think we, we know this in [00:20:00] marketing like people want to buy from people.

[00:20:01] Tyler Chou: They don’t want to buy from corporations anymore. And so that’s why these creators have so much power, right? Why do so many brands now spend in the creator and influencer space? And it’s only going to get bigger. Right? I mean, Goldman Sachs says in less than three years, the creator economy will be worth 490 billion.

[00:20:21] Tyler Chou: I mean, that’s just crazy. And so yes, it has been really hard. I’m now at 30, 000 subs, which I’m super grateful for, but you have to be consistent. I haven’t been consistent since I started growing my law firm in the last, four or five months. I haven’t been super consistent. So you have to like to push yourself.

[00:20:40] Tyler Chou: Like when you want to go to sleep, you’re like, nope. I got to go. I got to go. I got to go script. I got to go film. I got it, I have to go edit. I have to go give notes to my editor and that can lead to burnout. we’ve seen a lot of big creators leave the space, Casey Neistat and Emma Chamberlain.

[00:20:54] Tyler Chou: And so we have to be, I think, more gentle with creators. And I hope that people who are in [00:21:00] the audience know that, right, that, okay. And I’m seeing that. I’m seeing that. There’s a lot. Less punishment, for creators who don’t upload every week anymore. I, consume a lot of YouTube, like you’ve seen that, right?

[00:21:11] Tyler Chou: People are like, I think, kinder now to creators. I think it’s 

[00:21:15] Jessy Grossman: so fascinating, like your perspective in particular for several different reasons. But one is like, I know we have a lot of business owners who listen to this podcast and are part of the community and they hear your story where you’re also a business owner, you’re growing this law firm specializing in creators and the creator economy.

[00:21:38] Jessy Grossman: But you also have 30, 000 subscribers on YouTube and that’s different. Like that’s unique. I feel like a lot of people sort of like work in the creator economy, but there’s like a distinction like I’m behind the scenes, not in front of the camera. Like, but you have masterfully like. Bridged that [00:22:00] gap.

[00:22:00] Jessy Grossman: And I think like, I want to get into that because that is super unique. I can assume that you’ve prioritized your brand marketing. So, and you’ve done such an incredible job at doing that. I’m so curious, what were your goals for launching the YouTube channel from the start? And how has that evolved into what you’re hoping to achieve with it today now that 

[00:22:29] Tyler Chou: you’ve grown it?

[00:22:30] Tyler Chou: That’s interesting. Thank you. That’s a great question. So my reason for starting my YouTube channel was I remember being on Instagram and constantly feeling like crap after I’ve been on it. I’m seeing all these people’s beautiful lives and beautiful vacations and beautiful homes. And I’m like, Oh my God.

[00:22:50] Tyler Chou: This makes me feel so awful. And then I like to ask myself because I represent at the time in Hollywood, big celebrities I’ve seen behind the scenes. [00:23:00] I’ve seen how awful it is to be like a celebrity in front of the camera and the limelight all the time. And I wanted to pull back the veil.

[00:23:09] Tyler Chou: That was my tagline on my channel. page was like pulling back the veil. I wanted to show people that just because you see something on screen or Instagram, it’s, that’s not actually how it is because people always just show what’s beautiful, right? And what’s perfect? They don’t show how it is.

[00:23:27] Tyler Chou: And so I wanted my very first video. I’ve privated and I’m thinking of making it public again about it being a trip to New York. I was going on set to a Sean Penn movie called Black Flies. I was the lead attorney and I took my daughter I thought it would be cool for her to like go on set with me and see it.

[00:23:47] Tyler Chou: And it was really hard. My daughter wanted to go to the Bronx Zoo and it was just too far. We couldn’t get there. So I felt so much guilt not being able to like be a good mom and then being torn and not being able to kind of [00:24:00] do my job. and it was very kind of like raw and. And I had private for a little bit because my work didn’t know about it.

[00:24:09] Tyler Chou: And, but now I’m not there anymore. So I might make it public and show people like that. So that was the impetus for me starting my channel I wanted to show people and help women working moms feel a little better about themselves. Like, like that was what I thought my YouTube channel was going to be.

[00:24:24] Tyler Chou: And that’s the thing that I want people to realize is a lot of people can’t start their YouTube channels where they like, or they get flustered in the beginning or they. put out a few videos and it doesn’t do well and they’re like, well, that’s it. I tried, but you like what my channel was then, and what it is now is very different, right?

[00:24:42] Tyler Chou: Back then I was doing a lot of kind of trending Hollywood stories with a legal, like kind of analysis to it. About, so last year in May, the private equity fund company that I work for was acquired by MetLife. And of course, they said, Oh, nothing, no changes will happen. And of course, they lied [00:25:00] because, in May, actually they were acquired in March.

[00:25:02] Tyler Chou: In May, they told us we’re shuttering the studio’s division, right? So 12 of us were laid off and I was at a crossroads, right? So I was like, okay, what do I do now? I’m practical. I’m a mom. I went looking, to see if I could find anything, but it was during the strike. Right. And so everything was shut down.

[00:25:18] Tyler Chou: No one was hiring, especially at kind of my senior level. And I had a lot of creators like during that year that was building my YouTube channel come to me wanting me to like, Look at their brand deals or kind of represent them. And I always said, no, I never made money when I was, when I was working still, but then I said, well, I could do that now.

[00:25:36] Tyler Chou: Or, while I’m trying to like find another job, I could do this. And so for the first couple of months, I just helped my friends or creators who would come to me asking me to redline them. their brand deals or a couple of licensing deals. I had a couple of creators who were being offered TV deals.

[00:25:53] Tyler Chou: And so that’s right up my alley. So I did some of that and then I was starting to get traction. And [00:26:00] then I said, well, I’m just going to start making some videos about, for the, for creators, with a real focus. So I rebranded myself to the creator’s attorney. I, all of my videos now have. My audience in mind.

[00:26:13] Tyler Chou: Right. And that’s important. Right. And we’ve talked about this, that when you have to know who your avatar is, like, who is that one person, and I’ve named this person, it’s like, her name is Emma and she’s 30 and she has her YouTube channel and she’s like starting to get traction and some brand deals, but like.

[00:26:31] Tyler Chou: She wants to quit her job, but she doesn’t know how to make enough money to quit her job. And so creators have two pain points, right? They have, how do I make money and how do I not get in trouble? So whenever I’m making a video, those are the two things I think about, right? For Emma and all the creators out there.

[00:26:46] Tyler Chou: And I made a few videos and they kind of took off, but I think it’s just been word of mouth, right? I think it’s like, I’ve gone to events and I’ve met people. And so now, like going back to your question, my channel is. fully focused on protecting [00:27:00] and supporting creators, right? My last video on SS Sniper Wolf was breaking down like, okay, what’s happening here?

[00:27:06] Tyler Chou: This huge YouTuber with 30 million subs showed up at the house of another YouTuber and live-streamed their house to her 5 million Instagram followers. That’s not okay. That’s illegal. And this is why I kind of broke it down. And then I kind of talked about fair use. And I talked about, why as creators, you should have a partnership agreement, because she is in the middle of a divorce with her husband who’s claiming rights to her channel.

[00:27:33] Tyler Chou: And because They don’t have a partnership agreement. It’s going to court, and so you let a judge or jury decide the future of your channel. And you just needed to have a simple piece of paper in place that would say, okay, upon termination, upon dissolution, like what happens then? And so a lot of my work is actually.

[00:27:52] Tyler Chou: professionalizing my clients in helping them realize, okay, yes, a lot of them don’t want to hire an attorney because they’re like, why do I need an attorney? It’s [00:28:00] fine, right? Because a lot of them are young. They’ve never been through litigation. They’ve never, had things fall apart, but I’ve had it, I’ve been with one client for like three months now.

[00:28:09] Tyler Chou: And sure enough, she like hired an editor. She didn’t have him on a contract, even though I was like, let me do it. She just hired him and he had a trial period for 30 days and then he left and he was like, I could go start my channel. And like now he’s taken all of her kind of her IP and her ideas and how she like has blown her channel up to 2 million in a year.

[00:28:31] Tyler Chou: And now he’s going to go, start a competitive channel. And so I said, okay, your next editor, I’m going to draft the agreement. We’re going to have a non-compete in there, which in California, like some courts don’t like that, but you know that you can’t steal IP, you can’t take my IP. So it’s just simple things like that, right?

[00:28:48] Tyler Chou: That you hire an attorney to help you put protections in place because litigation is way more expensive. Right. Litigation is like 50, 000 to file a [00:29:00] motion to dismiss to get out of a lawsuit. It could be 100, 000 just to get depositions done and discovery. I mean, it’s messy and expensive. So. A lot of my work is having to convince creators this is why you need an attorney or get a couple of templates.

[00:29:17] Tyler Chou: I’m actually thinking of creating some templates I’ll sell that I think will just like make it easier and you just have it as part of your business library templates and you’ll be covered off then. Does that answer your question? I’m sorry, I always tend to go off on tangents. no, it 100 

[00:29:33] Jessy Grossman: percent answers my question.

[00:29:34] Jessy Grossman: I just have a Follow because I’m curious. I know there are a lot of people who maybe they’re not necessarily attorneys, but maybe, whatever it is that they do in the creator economy, they’re trying to get clients. And I think that with the help of social media, it could sort of be similar to what you’re doing, which is like a knowledge share, right?

[00:29:51] Jessy Grossman: Where it’s like, I’m going to create a video that like. Tells you a little bit about what I do and shares my knowledge. So there’s value being exchanged. [00:30:00] You come to, you see my video and you also share it. Cause you’re like, wow, that’s valuable. I think some people struggle with how much do I give for free versus like, when do I start like sort of gatekeeping something or anything at all, because.

[00:30:14] Jessy Grossman: This is a business for me. Like, how do you straddle that line? Do you have a philosophy around that? Do you have a strategy around that? Like, how do 

[00:30:23] Tyler Chou: you approach it? I have a philosophy. It’s to give it all. I give it all. I just had a call right before our conversation here with a new client. And I give him every single like, behind the scenes of like how to negotiate a brand deal because he’s a smaller channel and, honestly, if he gets paid 1, 000.

[00:30:44] Tyler Chou: I take 15%. That’s like nothing to me. Right. But I’m teaching him, how to fish. I’m teaching him, okay, these are the things you need to ask for. you need to ask a brand, what are their goals? What’s their budget? what’s the usage, things that most [00:31:00] creators like have no idea, like these are just foreign terms to them.

[00:31:03] Tyler Chou: Right. So in my videos with my calls and with my clients, I just give all the information because here’s the thing. when you genuinely share and don’t gatekeep, people know that. People understand it. when they walk away from a conversation with you or a call with you where they learn something and they’re transformed, then they’re like, Ooh.

[00:31:27] Tyler Chou: That was helpful. Like I want to work with them or I want to come back and watch more videos. And here’s the thing, like with every situation, every deal, every case, the facts are different, right? So I could give information about this hypothetical or this situation that happened, but for you, this, the new client, it could be different, right?

[00:31:50] Tyler Chou: So I could have shared When you share all your knowledge, I think what you’re doing is you’re establishing yourself as an expert, and that’s what you want, right? You [00:32:00] want to do that. I haven’t been as strategic as you think I am. Like, I didn’t sit there thinking, okay, I’m going to be this person. I’m just out there very enthusiastically and passionately sharing how Much.

[00:32:13] Tyler Chou: I want to protect creators and how it’s a problem that they don’t know all these things that they need to protect themselves and that they’re signing most agreements that are put in front of them. And I know you’ve seen this, like, it’s a problem. And so I just want to share all the information and if they learn something and that’s enough, that’s great.

[00:32:31] Tyler Chou: But here’s the thing, as these creators grow and their businesses grow, the. complexities grow, you might, as they grow, right? They’re going to need more people on their team. They’re going to need an attorney. They’re going to need, a CPA. They’re going to need a COO. One of the other kinds of businesses I’m growing right now is kind of a fractional COO business, right?

[00:32:55] Tyler Chou: Because a lot, I do that for my clients already. I give them [00:33:00] strategy and advice on how to grow their channels, how to start a podcast if they want to, how to launch a product, how to make seven figures, how to launch a course. I mean, these are all the things kind of an operations or COO would do. And I’m kind of giving that away for free with most of my clients right now.

[00:33:17] Tyler Chou: And so I see a need there for big creators, right? are going to need more support and more of a foundation. And I think when you give your knowledge away, It brings people back. Do you know what I mean? 

[00:33:34] Jessy Grossman: Oh, yeah. A hundred percent. And it’s interesting because like, maybe the, like, and I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but a way of approaching it could be I’m just going to share the value.

[00:33:43] Jessy Grossman: I’m going to give it out. I’m going to put it out there, but maybe the access is what you monetize, right? Because like, I’m still just putting it out there. It’s like a one-way channel. Perhaps your comment and I comment. back, but like additional access is what you monetize, but that’s one [00:34:00] option. But I love it, it’s so interesting to hear you say like, I’m able to also help my clients, grow their monetization channels and to build, to learn how to just like.

[00:34:13] Jessy Grossman: Build their businesses. Maybe you hear differently in your world than in my world. I don’t hear a lot of lawyers say that they can help and support in that way. And I think that’s like a major point of distinction for you. So my question for you is like, how do you take creators from, earning six figures, but relying on AdSense to landing?

[00:34:37] Jessy Grossman: Brand deals to launching products and courses and physical items, as you mentioned, like what sort of, like, how did those conversations go? I’m sure the advice is different, of course, depending on the creator and the channel and their strategy. But like, what kind of, like, have us be a fly on the wall for a second?

[00:34:53] Jessy Grossman: Like, what are some of those conversations like with people? 

[00:34:56] Tyler Chou: Well, so for instance, this new client that I talked to [00:35:00] today, I just tell them right from the beginning. I mean, he’s like only 16, 000, but he, and he’s getting a couple of brand deals. And I said to him, I said, do you have a website? Do you have your email list?

[00:35:10] Tyler Chou: Because that’s, who’s going to buy from you? And I want you to launch a course. I want you to think about it because he’s an AI channel. And so he is primed for that. And there’s this creator called Film Booth who has a great course and he just. did this video about doing these weekend webinars. I have a client, Jenny Hoyas, who is the Mr.

[00:35:32] Tyler Chou: Beast of shorts. She did a weekend seminar and I think like 200 people signed up and she made five figures and it was sort of a like, and I told her she should charge more and she will next time. But, those are the things I do for them. I’m like, you’re not charging enough and just get giving them gut checks.

[00:35:47] Tyler Chou: Being their biggest cheerleader, because that’s the thing, right? Most creators always undersell themselves a lot of women do, right? They always undercut their prices. I have an amazing client who just [00:36:00] launched a six-figure course. He sold out in three days, and I helped him launch that course.

[00:36:05] Tyler Chou: Now he, he did the bulk of that work because he had spent two years giving free content, right? So for two years, he grew his channel. To 100, 000. But he also kind of has that unfair advantage. He’s a level seven engineer at Amazon. His channel is called a life engineer. He’s super smart. He was my first client, and he so believed in me.

[00:36:27] Tyler Chou: He was the one who told me I should start a law firm. And he recently told me something. That I’m so grateful for. And his name is Steve. He said, Steve said, if you were a stock, I would buy shares. And it was just like, it was so like, to have clients who believe in you. Cause you know, like as I’m toiling and growing this business by myself, like sometimes I’m like, Why am I doing this?

[00:36:48] Tyler Chou: Like I could just go, go get a like, Paramount’s been headhunting me, like wanting me to go be SVP. I could just go make six figures and it would be fine. But I love this so much, [00:37:00] Jesse. Like I love it so much because I’m making such meaningful changes in a difference in every single creator’s life.

[00:37:07] Tyler Chou: And that matters deeply to me. I want to help them quit their jobs. I want to help them launch these courses. So the courses, I think anybody can do a course. Like if you have. Most of my clients are professionals and have educational channels. So I think if you have, if you’re an educator, you can create a channel, right?

[00:37:25] Tyler Chou: You, I mean, you could create a course, a weekend course could, it could be 500, a thousand dollars, and you just do the math, right? I think that’s one way. Membership, I actually think is another huge way. I’ve just met with the CEO and founder of Mighty Networks. And so they have a very interesting way of monetizing membership.

[00:37:46] Tyler Chou: And so, they’re asking me to try out their membership and I might, right, because I want a way to interact with my members. You, your membership is amazing. I mean, the wiim. Membership is like, I think that’s just gold to be, to be able [00:38:00] to be in that group and talk to people and see the castings and see available brand deals.

[00:38:05] Tyler Chou: I mean, that is like worth its price in gold. Like, so I think everyone should join WIM just for that. The community is right there. So it’s courses, it’s membership and products. I mean, I think products are the way to go now. is it white labeling? Is it Joe Rogan who did something really smart? He worked with carnivore snacks.

[00:38:27] Tyler Chou: They offered him 1 percent of the company and he. Let them use his name and likeness on their packaging. And that’s another way creators can make money, right? They can find established brands that they just need a name, right? They just need a creator. They need a face to put on their product. So there’s just a lot of different ways to make money.

[00:38:49] Tyler Chou: But from out of the gate, I say to every client, are you thinking about, how are you capturing your audience? What are you thinking about? Not just being tied to [00:39:00] AdSense and brand deals because that’s just a recipe for burnout. If you’re just tied to like, I got to make a video every day or every week and you’re at the wiims of someone else basically, right?

[00:39:11] Tyler Chou: Like brands or other companies, but when you have your product, your course, your templates, whatever they are, I think that’s when you find freedom. Right. That’s when you’re in control of your destiny. 

[00:39:26] Jessy Grossman: Absolutely. And the thing is, it doesn’t need to be an either-or situation, right?

[00:39:30] Jessy Grossman: It can be all of the above because like the more sophisticated your business becomes, the more it grows. The ideal situation is to have lots of revenue streams because businesses don’t always have great years or it goes up and down. But if you have multiple sources of income, then you’re not completely reliant on one person.

[00:39:50] Jessy Grossman: Right. Of those, if it takes a dip, thank goodness you have this other revenue stream that sort of compensates or what have you. So no, it’s so good to be able to think like [00:40:00] multifaceted. And I think like, there’s a distinction here. I tried to ask the question very specifically because it’s like, you like, I want to be.

[00:40:08] Jessy Grossman: A cognizant and articulate the fact that like to be able to get, deals for products and things like that, like you already have to be at a certain level and already have an audience and a following, to be able to, launch a membership, like at a community, like you have to have people to want that.

[00:40:25] Jessy Grossman: So there is like a. point, a jumping-off point. But once you’re at that jumping-off point, I think it’s so valuable for people to have someone like you in their corner or like some talent managers can do it. Not all. Some of them are a little more transactional, but some of them are big picture thinkers and to have big picture thinkers to be able to be on their team and a part of their team and say like, okay, now we’re at this threshold.

[00:40:48] Jessy Grossman: Here is what the landscape looks like. And you, it’s great. Cause of course you have that perspective because you’re working with multiple creators. So you can see, like, I was privy to this incredible, like the launch of a course or [00:41:00] something from this guy over here. Like, let me tell you about that as well.

[00:41:03] Jessy Grossman: That’s possible for you too. 

[00:41:05] Tyler Chou: Right? And that is something that I’m so grateful and excited about because I’m in, I’m able to touch empirical proof, like. All the time all around me, right? Because I’m working with so many different creators and companies. I mean, I also I’m part part-time GC to Whaler.

[00:41:21] Tyler Chou: And so I work with a few management companies as well, kind of supporting legally because a lot of these companies don’t have in-house attorneys yet. They will, right? I think in the next three years, five years, you’re going to see a lot more attorneys go in-house at these companies. And I think, one of the reasons I think I’m able to give my clients kind of strategy and how to grow their businesses.

[00:41:44] Tyler Chou: I’ve been in-house, right? I’ve been in-house at Disney Skydance and Buzzfeed. I’ve seen how these companies grow. I’ve been part of the executive suite. And so I am. able to see like, okay, this is what you should focus on and this is what you shouldn’t focus on. And [00:42:00] in Hollywood, actually a lot of presidents and COOs are attorneys, right?

[00:42:04] Tyler Chou: Because we’re in the middle of the deal-making, right? We’re kind of there. You should bring an attorney as soon as possible when you’re making the deal because we can tell you what you should be asking for, and what could go wrong, right? Those are things that an attorney could do. And so I’m able to kind of be in this position of being able to be a fractional COO for them because I can guide them and I can execute, right?

[00:42:28] Tyler Chou: I can execute with agreements, which people who are just pure COOs can’t do. And so I am in this kind of like really exciting spot, like the intersection of being able to do kind of some cool things. And I’m excited 

[00:42:41] Jessy Grossman: for you. And so I think that like, regardless of, there’s a lot of different types of people who watch our episodes.

[00:42:47] Jessy Grossman: So I want to, for those people who are building companies, like you are, you’re building other people and helping to build other people’s companies too. But inevitably, like at the end of the day, like you’re also [00:43:00] building your own. And I want to dig into that a little bit as well. If you could give One piece of advice to someone building a company specifically in the creator economy.

[00:43:12] Jessy Grossman: What would you tell them? Like, what do you wish you had known early? 

[00:43:14] Tyler Chou: on? Well, I don’t know if I will answer that, but before that, I kind of wish I had done this way earlier, right? Like I wish I had gone out on my own, but I just was not. brave enough. Like I think growing up, working in the swap meet, seeing how much my parents struggled with their own business, being self-employed is very tough.

[00:43:32] Tyler Chou: It’s very risky. It’s sometimes you have good months, sometimes you have bad months, right? So I never wanted that. I always wanted to work for a big company and have that kind of stability. But now that I’ve done it on my own and maybe because I’ve seen success, I’m like, why didn’t I do this years ago?

[00:43:47] Tyler Chou: But I couldn’t have, right? Like the kind of blood and sweat. that I gave to the Hollywood machine gave me the building blocks to be able to do what I’m doing now, right? I wouldn’t be able to build [00:44:00] my own company or help my clients build their companies if I didn’t have the knowledge that I learned from those companies in Hollywood, right?

[00:44:06] Tyler Chou: So this question, my answer is going to be a little wonky because I’m an attorney already. So I have my built-in—safety net. But for most companies, I would say, as they’re starting, I want them to start thinking about having an attorney sooner, right? Getting those kind of like first things in place as you’re doing partnership agreements, as you’re hiring people, a lot of people don’t do employment contracts.

[00:44:31] Tyler Chou: And I think that’s a mistake. I think they should have employment contracts that talk about it. What happens upon termination? What happens, when you’re no longer working with us? What happens to our IP when you leave us? I mean, these are kind of simple things. A contract could be a thousand dollars, right?

[00:44:46] Tyler Chou: But once you have one contract, that could be your template, right? You spent a couple of thousand getting a template done and you could use that for every employee, right? So I think that one thing that I would think about. is getting an attorney in place. I know that sounds a little self [00:45:00] serving, but even if like I wasn’t an attorney, I would still say that because I think it’s so important to protect yourself that way.

[00:45:06] Tyler Chou: And so I’m not, that’s not my goal. My goal is to give the best advice. And I think the best advice is to think about an attorney and incorporate. Oh my God, that’s huge, right? Like getting an LLC done immediately, especially for creators. a lot of creators come to me and ask me, when should I incorporate.

[00:45:23] Tyler Chou: And I’m like immediately because what people don’t realize is when you have a corporation, it protects your private personal assets, right? If you get sued because of your business or your YouTube channel, if you don’t have an LLC in place, that’s. A lack of protection there, right? Like, they can, there’s no veil to peers because it’s like you have a house that’s up on the chopping block, during a litigation.

[00:45:50] Tyler Chou: So in incorporations, like 800 dollars, maybe depending on what state you’re in 500, 800, a thousand dollars. that’s money you should spend. So maybe [00:46:00] that’s The first thing you should do, right? A lot of creators ask me, well, at what point? I’m like, at any point when you’re starting to make a little bit of money, if you’re making AdSense, like if you’re not making any money and you’re just like before your first thousand subscribers, probably not.

[00:46:14] Tyler Chou: Right. But like, as soon as you start making money, you should do it. So that’s the first piece of advice incorporate and get. Maybe an attorney get a CPA in place that can just help you navigate and learn what you can write off because that’s important. After all, you can write off stuff when you own your own business, right?

[00:46:31] Tyler Chou: That most people who’ve worked in the corporate world don’t realize they can. Absolutely. 

[00:46:35] Jessy Grossman: And also the reality is too, is like, I’ve seen where people have delayed some of those things, especially like. Sort of creating good solid contracts or getting CPAs who like to get their books, organized and stuff.

[00:46:52] Jessy Grossman: And like, you’re going to eventually pay for it later. there’s only so long that you can delay these things. The sooner you start [00:47:00] treating your business like a business, the sooner it’ll start performing like a business, but it’s going to have to happen eventually. And I’m a firm believer in just putting a little bit more work in the upfront pays off.

[00:47:12] Jessy Grossman: dividends later. So you’re going to have less time later when you’re super busy and trying to manage all the business that’s coming in and the clients like the last thing you’re going to want to do are be in the weeds of like the paperwork to incorporate, which isn’t that much depending on what state you’re in.

[00:47:26] Jessy Grossman: But like, I’ve done it for multiple businesses and like, it can be intimidating. So I want to acknowledge that, but like, it is doable. And Super, super necessary. I also want to ask, like, you’ve created a law firm for yourself. You used to work for these large companies. You’ve gone off on your own.

[00:47:49] Jessy Grossman: And like, you’ve had a lot of successes along the way. You’re saying these great new clients that you’re signing and bringing in the door. You’ve grown this YouTube channel, which is incredibly powerful. Like [00:48:00] marketing arm to your business, which is wonderful. But I also want to get, we always try to keep it real on the show.

[00:48:07] Jessy Grossman: And like, I’m someone who’s built a business, and like there are tough moments to that climb. There are tough moments to building what you’re ultimately looking to achieve. So what have been some of the tougher moments that you’ve struggled with, and maybe if there’s any advice that you can give to our audience for things that you.

[00:48:29] Tyler Chou: Well, I think, figuring out at what point do you hire someone, right? Because I’ve been, I’m still on my own, but I am in the process of hiring an assistant because I realized that things are just falling through the cracks. Emails are like sitting there like, they can’t sit there for two or three days without the kind of a reply to them.

[00:48:49] Tyler Chou: I think I’ve been blessed with like a lot of success, right? As usual when I talk to clients. They always hire me, I retain them, they retain me and we’re on our [00:49:00] way. I had a few clients, I’ve had to fire an agency and I didn’t love it, but he wanted me to do kind of shady, slightly illegal things and, it just didn’t feel right to me.

[00:49:11] Tyler Chou: And that was hard because he was paying me money. I mean, he was nickel and diming me a little bit, but it was like, it was one of my first clients and I was like, Oh, I’m potentially giving up, a couple thousand dollars a month. At that time, that was a lot for me, but I checked in with myself and I knew that this was not someone I wanted to do business with.

[00:49:28] Tyler Chou: So kind of being at, having those conversations with yourself saying, okay, like, are you going to take money because you need it? Or are you going to do the right thing and kind of fire a client? So I think that was one hard point for me. Another one I got connected with the startup, which I’m who I’m excited about.

[00:49:46] Tyler Chou: And it sounded like she was going to hire me as her, an attorney, and kind of help her build her. Her company. And then I sent, my engagement letter and I’m starting to ask for a retainer now. And she like, basically it was like, ghosted me and [00:50:00] it’s just like, she kind of disappeared. And we like had several meals together and we, I felt like we connected and it was very strange to me.

[00:50:08] Tyler Chou: And then she finally came back to me and said, Oh, we have new investors coming in and I think they’re going to bring in their team of attorneys. And so it’s like, I guess what happens is I’m very. care about my clients a lot and I get very emotionally invested. And so it almost feels like a relationship and it is like, almost a friendship.

[00:50:27] Tyler Chou: And so I get very invested. And so when she went away, I got hurt and I wanted the best for her. Right. So if this big investor is going to come in and grow her company and they want to bring in their attorneys, that’s fine. I get it. I’m not a big law firm, even though I’ve worked at the big law firms.

[00:50:43] Tyler Chou: And if that’s what they want, that’s okay. So it’s kind of, I care a lot about my clients. And so when they go away, like they, that’s hard for me. So, so after that 

[00:50:54] Jessy Grossman: type of experience, there’s so many people I can relate to that. Like there are so, so many people I can relate to that. I know I [00:51:00] can. And like. I’ll tell myself, I’m like, I gotta learn something from this, like, because there has to be a better way of doing this.

[00:51:07] Jessy Grossman: But like, I don’t know that I can become like more disconnected because that’s also not the type of like human that I want to be. But it’s tough. And so you go into it knowing you’re like, Oh, this could be tough, but I’m gonna continue to put myself out there. And like, I don’t know, but I want to learn something.

[00:51:24] Jessy Grossman: Like, would you do anything differently, like having gone through the experience or is that just par 

[00:51:30] Tyler Chou: for the course? No, I think I’m always going to care very deeply for the clients, that’s what they’re looking for and it matches. I don’t want to say that’s not what she wasn’t looking for. I think she was doing what was best for her business.

[00:51:43] Tyler Chou: I think she wanted to hire me. But I think, the investors coming in or big, big dollars. And so they wanted some, maybe they just have their lawyers, which I understand too. Right? Like you have people you trust and that you want to work with. So no, I wouldn’t do anything differently.

[00:51:58] Tyler Chou: I like, I was going to say I love [00:52:00] deeply, but like, I, maybe that sounds weird in the professional world, but you know, I do care deeply and so I never going to change that about myself. And so I, yeah, no, I don’t think I would. I appreciate that. And like, I, 

[00:52:13] Jessy Grossman: I appreciate that. The answer is like, no, not really.

[00:52:15] Jessy Grossman: And like, I just, I know that every, there’s so many people that can relate to that. And the thing is like being on your own, having your own business, you feel the highs so much more. And then you feel a low so much more because I’ve, if you work for somebody else and you like losing a client or whatever like it just hits so differently, So I think that, I don’t know, the lesson is like. Every case is different, of course, like every situation is different, but what I hear you say loud and clear, and I co-sign this 100%, is like, There are situations where you lose a client, you fire a client, whatever it is, but like trust your gut also, because there are also instances where we try to just make it work, even though it feels like it’s wrong [00:53:00] for some reason, and we feel like we’re conflicted about it, but our nature is to just like figure it out, make it work, like, there’s like, that’s not, right.

[00:53:08] Jessy Grossman: Like, imagine if you freed up the time that you were taking from working with such a difficult client and fired them because they were being so difficult. Imagine the time and energy that is now freed up to attract All these better clients that are just better aligned with, your business and your morals and stuff like that.

[00:53:32] Jessy Grossman: And it’s just, I personally never regretted firing a client, but you have to get through that experience because especially if it’s one of your first ones or, whatever, like. It’s a scary thing to go through because you’re like, is this the smart decision for my business? Sometimes when you’re a business owner, you have employees like where I ought to pay for these people, I, stuff like that.

[00:53:53] Jessy Grossman: So there’s a lot of things to consider, but I don’t know. I think it’s all like energy. And if you free up. negative [00:54:00] energy, there’s that much room for positive energy to flow in. Look, I have a feeling that a lot of our listeners are, would love to reach out and just like get to know you you’re part of WIM, but you know, I think that a lot of our listeners would love to connect more with you and just learn how they can work with you, just get to know you even better aside from this conversation.

[00:54:21] Jessy Grossman: So what’s the best way for our audience? to connect 

[00:54:24] Tyler Chou: with you. Oh, thank you for that, Jesse. So I have my website. It’s Tyler Chou Law. com. It’s T Y L E R C H O U law. com. I’m on YouTube and Instagram as the creator’s attorney. I’m pretty easy to find. And if you’re a member within Wiim, I am not in the group as much as I would love to be because I’m part of so many different groups but always email me.

[00:54:49] Tyler Chou: I think that’s—the best way. And, I would love to support the members in this group or any creators or any management companies or agencies, because this [00:55:00] is kind of when podcasts started, do you remember? It was just like, it was the Wild West. There were no rules or no like, procedures or no one knew how to make the deals or the contracts.

[00:55:10] Tyler Chou: And I feel like, the creator space is the YouTube space is sort of like that, the creator economy. And I. I am in this kind of privileged position of being at the intersection of so many different clients right now. So I’m seeing different things and one of the things I wanted to share because I know a lot of the listeners are managers is to be careful as you’re entering a management company to look at the contracts that they’re having you sign.

[00:55:39] Tyler Chou: I have had three managers come to me in the last few months, either because they’ve joined a new management company and the old management company is trying to take commission, which is illegal in some states, or their one manager is trying to leave another agency and they’re like saying, you can’t take anyone with you and we’re going to sue you.

[00:55:59] Tyler Chou: I mean, it’s [00:56:00] chaotic. Awful right now for a lot of managers. Like, have you heard about this, Jesse? Like what’s been happening with a lot of these companies? 

[00:56:08] Jessy Grossman: And not that specifically, I mean, I’m very aware that like, just the management in general is just a very like unregulated side of our industry still, and there’s a lot of.

[00:56:17] Jessy Grossman: power there. There’s a lot of money flowing through there. So I’ve certainly heard horror stories, but no, tell me more about this. Cause I haven’t necessarily 

[00:56:25] Tyler Chou: heard. Yeah. So I have this one instance where one manager went to another place and the agreement that he signed with his old company states a three-year commission tale.

[00:56:37] Tyler Chou: And I don’t think that’s legal. And whether that goes through litigation or not, that’s not for me to say, but like, that’s a problem for the new management company. Do you know what I mean? Because they’re having to now be on the hook. And it’s just like, so it’s like, I want managers to look at what they’re signing when they’re joining companies.

[00:56:57] Tyler Chou: And that’s the thing, right? When you’re joining a [00:57:00] company, it’s like, It’s the honeymoon period. Everything’s great. You just sign. You just want to start and like, show up and do good work. You don’t want to be difficult. Right. But, as we all know, like you don’t usually stay with a company forever.

[00:57:13] Tyler Chou: Right. and so, especially in kind of our industry, the creator space, as people move around a lot. So just be mindful of what you’re signing, make sure that the non-compete provisions in there, any kind of commission tails, like that’s potentially illegal in some states. And so I’m kind of heavily involved in that right now.

[00:57:32] Tyler Chou: Like. just accidentally almost, right? Because like brands or agencies are like, Oh, like I’m having this issue. Can you look at it for me? And at my core, I am an employment attorney, right? Because all of the contracts I did in Hollywood, actor agreements, director agreements, writer agreements, they’re employment contracts.

[00:57:49] Tyler Chou: They’re just for short amounts of time, but at their core, they’re employment contracts, right? So looking at employment contracts is something I do often. So I just want, the members [00:58:00] who might be listening to keep an eye. And if you’re a management company owner or an agency owner, you should be asking your new hires, like, Hey, what does that old contract look like?

[00:58:11] Tyler Chou: Can I take a look at that? Or have your templates in place where. You have termination provisions in place, right? Like, what does that look like when you leave the company? like I said earlier, you can’t take our IP, and you can’t take brand deal emails with you. Like I do, but some people don’t know that, right?

[00:58:30] Tyler Chou: Like some management’s companies or managers, like they just take them, all their emails with them and that’s not technically okay. So it’s like, there are a lot of pitfalls here that I’m seeing. That is kind of jumping up at managers. So I just want our members to be aware of that. No, I so 

[00:58:47] Jessy Grossman: appreciate that.

[00:58:48] Jessy Grossman: These are invaluable advice. I, and most of our members are managers. So I know that they’re going to listen, their ears are going to perk up. And also the creators that are listening to, it’s all like symbiotic. It’s all very [00:59:00] related. So I know that it’s. It’s very much appreciated by people who are tuning in.

[00:59:04] Jessy Grossman: Just thank you for coming on today. I’m excited for people to reach out to you. Check out her YouTube channel. It’s so good and connect with her on one. She’s wonderful, I’m talking about you like you’re not here. She’s awesome. So I appreciate you so much coming on today.

[00:59:21] Jessy Grossman: Thank you guys so much for you. Those of you who are tuning in, share, share, this episode because I think it’s a lot of useful information that a lot of people could benefit from hearing and we will see. I’ll see you guys next week. Bye, everyone. If you enjoyed this episode, we gotta have you back.

[00:59:37] Jessy Grossman: Check out our website for more ways to get involved, including all the information you need about joining our collective. You can check out all the information at IamWiim. com. Leave us a review, or a rating, but the most important thing that we can ask you to do is to share this podcast. Thanks for listening.


[00:59:56] Tyler Chou: Tune in next week.

Tyler Chou


Tyler Chou is the Creators’ Attorney, who started a YouTube channel called Tyler Chou The Creators’ Attorney (formerly The Hollywood Attorney) and quickly grew to 20,000 subs within 3 months. She is currently and absolutely living her dream life. She founded her own law firm (Tyler Chou Law for Creators) where she works all day long with creators, helping them build out their businesses, using YouTube as their creativity incubator but also the marketing arm of their business. She is more than an attorney—she is her clients’ confidante, coach and biggest cheerleader.

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