The Power Of LinkedIn

[00:00:00] Jessy: So Callie from one borough to another . Hello. Hello. I’m so excited to welcome a fellow New Yorker. I’m like a little envious that you’re in the city. I miss it so much. How is it over there today? 

[00:00:40] Callie: No, I’ll say it’s a beautiful day. I think it’s almost 60 degrees. Gotta find some time to get out there and walk.

But you know, it’s quiet and that’s actually. 

[00:00:52] Jessy: A quiet day in New York, like that’s rare and rare, I can imagine. Nice and like peaceful. So you’re getting the boast, the best of both worlds. I, I’m so excited to welcome you today. I gotta admit, I love LinkedIn. 

[00:01:14] Callie: I you love LinkedIn.

[00:01:17] Jessy: I’m like a self proclaim. LinkedIn nerd. I’ve told this to people a lot and you are at LinkedIn. I’m gonna ask you so many things today because I feel like we could really get into just how to utilize it. It’s this very unique e like place on the internet where it’s like professional meets creative, and I talk a lot about personal branding and the importance of.

So I’m excited to get into it today. Before we do, I just wanna hear from you a little bit more about your story and even like what excited you and brought you to 

[00:02:02] Callie: LinkedIn in the first place. Yeah. I should first of all say you could just interview yourself because you are such a good brand ambassador for LinkedIn.

I’m not sure you even really need me here. So that aside, I joined LinkedIn because I believe LinkedIn is a platform of generosity. It is a place to think we before me, and I love that. I think in today’s world when social media can be so, me, and me focus centric, highlight real. I think LinkedIn is really unique and differentiated by two things.

One, it is about connecting to economic opportu. And two, it is about generosity. I really believe that. And when I go through my feed, I love seeing how people are posting, how they’re sharing, whether it’s they’re sharing their own knowledge or they’re sharing opportunities for people. I love that. So I am someone who has always loved community building.

So I have a background in media on the editorial side, but I have always been really curious about this idea of bringing people together. , and that’s something that has been true in every single one of my jobs, whether I was at time or Vox Media or Talking Points Memo or Thrive Global. And that’s something where when I saw this opportunity at LinkedIn, I actually started as the senior marketing editor.

And I remember hearing about LinkedIn’s seats, the LinkedIn news seats. Curate, cultivate and circulate, and I loved that. I never wanted to be the journalist who won a Pulitzer Prize. Though I admire and respect those people so greatly. I wanted to be someone who made sure that people got the news and someone who made sure that people had the ability to talk about it with other people.

So I started as a senior marketing editor, and then we hired Andre Cental from Instagram to run our creator program, our community management team. And he and I started talking and he said, I think there maybe job for you here. And there 

[00:04:04] Jessy: was, 

[00:04:04] Callie: and almost a year later, I had of creator programs and just absolutely love getting to work with LinkedIn creators like you, 

[00:04:12] Jessy: Jesse, every.

And it’s so cool that LinkedIn even has a creator program, full transparency and part of it, there are so many wonderful people on LinkedIn that are doing such cool stuff, and I wanna spread the word to our community in particular because I see it as such an opportunity. I know that I feel like I’ve only scratched the surface truthfully in.

Can happen, like what’s possible on LinkedIn in terms of connections and like you said, like sharing news, whether it’s industry news, world news, it’s this like really interesting place that we are in the world right now because work from home and the pandemic like really changed. I think the perception of work, the perception of, what it is to be a professional, I don’t think it’s any longer.

Putting on this persona and being somebody that you’re not somebody else. I think it’s a really exciting time that I see lots of people just sharing. Here is a, here is who I am as a holistic person in the field. And of course there’s tons of industries. The influencer marketing industry though is very interesting.

So many of us, whether we’re marketers, folks on the brand side are used to this separation between, I hire influencers, I’m not an influencer, and I think that LinkedIn is this very unique place where it could be fun to like flex that creative muscle as well. I’d love to ask you, like in the world of social media, you talked about Instagram, of course there’s like all the platforms.

Where does LinkedIn fit in terms of. Being a professional. 

[00:06:10] Callie: I love what you said about the evolution of LinkedIn. I think Jesse, over the last two years with Covid, LinkedIn has completely transformed we, and now all over the world, people see themselves as no longer personal over here, professional over here.

Instead, the two are completely intertwined, and I think the platform really represents that and really showcases that. So when I think about where LinkedIn lives in the ecosystem, I think about it as the place for authentic connect. When I think about posting to LinkedIn, I often say that I think about four categories.

First one is knowledge sharing, so everybody as a curator, that’s you sharing an article from social media today or me sharing an article from the New York Times or me offering advice, you offering advice, knowledge, anything. The second, Is opportunity sharing. This is resources and opportunity, so that might be, Hey, there are a bunch of jobs available here.

Go look at that. Another might be, I found this incredible opportunity for people to volunteer and help out with job reintegration programs. Awesome. The other one I think about is amplification, and this is huge. You’ve talked about the idea of influencers and creators. Everyone is a creator, and one of the things I think about LinkedIn is that an in, it’s an incredible place to amplify the work of other people.

I often talk about the halo effect, so if I share something of yours, Jesse and I. I know Jesse, right? It’s so cool. I’m amplifying you. And at the same time, there’s that halo effect. I know. Jesse, this is so cool. I’m so happy. Forger this amazing thing happened, or she wrote this amazing article, did this great podcast.

And then the fourth is really around community building and connection. So I run a book club, a marketing book club with the CMO of GoFundMe Muk, and this book club, which is now almost 3000 people. It started because he posted a Google form that just said Hey, I need to be reading more books. I wanna be reading about marketing and marketing.

You often skip learning about the fundamental. Let’s read the fundamentals together. Who wants in? And he posts this Google form and he gets thousands of responses, right? That to me is such a perfect example of bringing a community together. And by the way, if anybody here wants to join Marketing Book Club, just search Marketing book club, and you will find our group and you can request access to join.

I will. I mean I 

[00:08:36] Jessy: love that and that is what I’m obsessed with about LinkedIn. I’ll speak personally, it was really easy and has been for me to find my people, like to find my tribe. I find that some of the other platforms I can find them. It’s more difficult though, so I don’t know if it’s like an algorithm thing or just thought I have also linked in.

For years, right? If I find a good article with a roundup of really good people in the industry, I’m always like, connect connect. I just wanna be in their ecosystem, see what they’re posting about people that I respect, people that I admire and learn from each other. But I love what you were saying about the halo effect because someone who is so pro women in business, small business, How incredible would it be if we were all successful at the top together and just like amplifying the voices of others that you respect, admire, they do the same for you.

So I appreciate you saying that. It’s one of the things that I see a lot on LinkedIn and I love. Let’s talk a little bit about like misconceptions about LinkedIn. I wanna debunk some of those. What are some misconceptions about it that you can. 

[00:09:57] Callie: So you just raised one. Thank you for teeing me up so perfectly.

One misconception is the idea that it has to be all about you. and that you have to be in corporate America or have a job in a Fortune 50 company or something like that. Jesse, you said this earlier, redefining professionalism is the story of the world right now. Professional doesn’t look the way that it always looked, and so that’s where I think on the platform we’re talking about amplification.

It’s the perfect example. Using your own platform and your voice to highlight other people, the value of that. A lot of people will say to me, and oftentimes women, I don’t know what to post. Ugh. I’m not that sure, not that comfortable writing about myself. And I’m like, think of yourself as a curator.

You’re a curator of people. You’re a curator of knowledge. You’re a curator of opportu. None of those things need to be self-referential or to be talking about your own trials and tribulations. There is so much value in putting the spotlight on other people and in thinking about what is the value I am adding to the ecosystem by sharing this.

The other thing I always think about is LinkedIn as a platform for market research. So one of my most popular posts of all time was actually two lines. I asked, when you think of inclusive market, What is the first brand that comes to. Hundreds of comments, tons of conversation of people chiming in and saying the different brands and why it was so interesting to me.

And when I was covering marketing, I was reading all of them thinking, okay, I gotta get that brand on my ma radar. I need to interview that C M O. I wanna deep dive into that first story. And that’s something where I think of that as community building. Use LinkedIn as a place to connect with other people around different aspects of who you are because we also know we are so much more than just what our job says on paper.

I think in the future we will all have portfolio careers and you already see this, which is people who might have this, what you know, what they’re doing over here and then have West Side hustle and then be writing a book over here and then be doing something else over. It is all about who you are as the whole human.

And I think putting that out on LinkedIn is so special. I also say everyone is an expert in something. I speak often to high school students and they’ll say to me, I, I don’t know. I don’t have any experience. And I’ll say, do you ever babysat? Yeah. You ever have had a job, worked in a store, been a waitress?

Okay. You have experience. You are an expert in your own experience, and you can bring that to the platform. There is something that everyone can learn from you. I think often about reverse mentorship, the idea that mentorship is true in all directions and at all levels, there’s something that everyone can learn from somebody else.

Oh my gosh, I love this 

[00:12:58] Jessy: all so much. , you’re like, you’re talking about some of my favorite things, so I agree. I think, the idea of reverse mentorship, what a cool concept, and it’s so true. I’ve experienced it, I’m working like with my cousin right now who’s just about to graduate from college and, I, I’m like looking at a resume.

I’m just trying to guide her and I, 

[00:13:23] Callie: I think that it’s 

[00:13:24] Jessy: really interesting. Words are so important to me. I’ve said this for a long time, so I’m looking at her resume, for example, and she’s, sharing well, I’ve only, I’ve worked at a restaurant and I’m like, There are so many skills that are very applicable to a job that you are looking to get right now that are coming from working in a restaurant.

And it’s just a matter of being able to articulate it well and and use the correct words that make you feel something. So when I think of LinkedIn as this opportunity to get together this community of people and create conversation. It’s also a chance to practice those words and, jump, like create a newsletter on LinkedIn or, or do a, live if you wanna practice your, your skills as a speaker.

It’s this really great opportunity to get instant feedback, which is the core of social media. It’s very instant and it’s, it’s, engaging and with a group of people. Whether you are, my cousin who’s 21 or myself who’s 35, or older than that of course. Like I think we’re all practicing our skills as people.

And now there’s this great opportunity with like creator mode and just being on LinkedIn in general, that people are looking for that. They’re looking for conversations to jump into. So what a great place to practice it. I’d also love to chat about. Influence our marketers specifically and how they could and should utilize LinkedIn for the work that they’re doing.

[00:15:06] Callie: Yeah. Can I go back one second because I think you said something absolutely critical, which is about words and the power of language. I am obsessed with this book called Words That Work. It’s not what you say, it’s what people hear. It’s by Frank Luz, who is a very powerful and, and famous pollster. And he’s somebody who has studied language and worked with politicians around it.

And when I look at people’s resumes, I am always looking for those words because so often, and I hate to say it again, but so often as women, we are have been raised as helpers. We have been raised as assistance or something and it’s like, We have to learn to own our own language, and I think that is something that is so critical.

So I love that you’re looking at your cousin’s resume with that. In my, and I would say we all need to be looking at our resumes or LinkedIn profiles or anything with that sense in mind. Am I really owning my value? Am I owning the work that I did here, or am I hedging it? I think oftentimes we lean toward hedging it.

So yes to everything you said, Jesse plus one. I appreciate that 

[00:16:13] Jessy: you’re also, speaking to it from a female perspective and saying as women, you, your words were, we we’re helpers, and we can pick and choose so many different adjectives to describe what we’ve been historically like, programmed and shown examples of to be.

but how exciting is it that we’re in a time where there are so many inspirational women, men who are using incredible ways of communicating themselves and just like paving the way I know myself, I’ve been so inspired by like too many people to list, to be honest with you. And it’s just it’s cool to see words are so, so, so powerful and and, and again, like there’s different.

To communicate what’s on your mind and to create the conversation. I think that the most powerful conversations on social media broadly, it’s never a one-way conversation where I’m just speaking at people. It’s not even a two-way conversation. It’s actually one you like. Create a topic of conversation and people actually even start getting into it in the comments with each other and it like really gains traction.

And you’re like this, like there’s something to it. Like how, what an exciting experience to have where, you can really identify this like this, whether it’s a problem that people are experiencing as a whole. Something that you’re looking to solve or, and, and you’re able to pinpoint what that is and everybody just jumps in and everybody relates to it.

So, you know, social media broadly, there’s an opportunity to get into it, but LinkedIn, man. It’s just really good. So I, look, I, I know that so many of the people listening to this podcast in particular, they’re connected to influencer marketing in some way, shape, or form. We do have some creators that listen and I love that they listen to this podcast.

Cause I feel like they take their, their small businesses to the next level. They’re like, I wanna educate myself and I wanna hear what the other side HA is talking about. I wanna hear what creators are talking. . And again, like LinkedIn in my opinion, is this really unique place that sort of really nicely combines the two in our group, like in our Facebook group, in our Slack community, people are constantly looking to work with influencers and every so often I hear people who are like, is anyone working with LinkedIn influencers?

And I’d love to hear from you. Like for those people who they’re like, I wanna tap into this social. In order to, work on brand partnerships, where would you recommend them starting? How can influencer marketers utilize LinkedIn? 

[00:19:05] Callie: The power for influencer marketers is there in connection and community building.

Jesse, you said earlier, it’s not just a one-way conversation, it’s not broadcast, and it’s not even necessarily dialogue between two. It’s so many people getting involved, and I think that is really where the power is in educating in, whether it’s through a huge conversation or like you were saying earlier, live or audio events or anything like that, there’s so much power to bring out people’s full selves, bring out that authentic person.

I know authenticity is a buzzword, but I really believe that if you bring your authentic self to linked. It can have such meaningful power. And so when brands find an authentic influencer creator who they say, people really resonate with this person, I wanna be part of their conversation. There is so much power in that.

And I think that is what I would say is the ultimate. Value is the connection and the ability to tap into people’s communities. I think there’s just so much. There’s a woman named Ellie, middle Middleton, who started a conversation. She’s in the UK and it’s actually became part of our redefining professional campaign where she says, I, I wear, these kinds of clothes.

My hair is like this. I have a nose ring. I’m doing this. This is professional. And it started this huge movement on the platform of people sharing things. And we have a woman named Min J Orange, who’s our VP of marketing, and she has, half of her head is shaved and she posted as well, saying this is not what people think traditional professional looks like.

And I. If you think about someone like Ellie, think about the power to tap into a conversation with someone who has that community built from that trust, that authenticity. I think there is so much power for brands. 

[00:20:58] Jessy: Yeah, absolutely. I’m excited to see your creator program, ramp up. I don’t even, in full transparency, I know that they’re members of our community that don’t even really know that it exists or like fully appreciate all that it is.

So like I’d love for you to walk us through like the power of your creator program. If you can share like a roadmap of where you guys are hoping to build it to. I’d love to hear 

[00:21:23] Callie: more about. Yeah, so our community management team is 50, I think we’re at 50 now. Might be more creator managers in eight countries, maybe nine or 10, and we have just exploded over the last year, and it’s because there are so many amazing creators on LinkedIn who want to take more advantage of the platform and want to be building conversations they want.

Know the best way to build community. And so our creator program is run by our community management team where a creator such as you, works with a creator manager such as Jess, who’s amazing. And you will have conversations about your goals. And you’ll hear from Jess about different initiatives that we’re doing.

She probably reached out around International Women’s Day and different conversations that we were gonna be having during the entire week that International Women’s Day. And I think there is so much power in just thinking about tapping into education, and that’s really where we wanna. , but the ultimate benefit of LinkedIn is connection and opportunity.

10 connecting to opportunity. So I think that’s one of the key things that our creator managers are focused on is how can we support you, Jesse, in building your overall presence, your community, such that you are making great connections and you are connecting to economic opportunity. Those are the really big things that I think.

And 

[00:22:50] Jessy: That’s awesome. I wanna get into some of the nitty-gritty of it too, cuz you were talking about, we’ve mentioned live, we’ve mentioned newsletters audio. I’m obsessed with social audio. I think it was so exciting when you guys are, start, started to beta test it around. I know that a lot of the other better testers are like so enthusiastic about it.

what are a few of the bests features to explore on LinkedIn if you really wanna grow your personal brand? So I’m a very 

[00:23:21] Callie: big fan of our cover story, and the reason why is because I am, let me show you a huge fan of Diet Coke, okay? And I think the cover story, which is the video that you can see when you have your cursor over someone’s profile photo and it hovers, or when you land on someone’s profile page.

It’s an opportunity to be per personal and to not necessarily be, buttoned up and serious. So I introduce myself. Hi, I’m Callie Schweitzer, had creator programs here in LinkedIn. Talk a little bit about what that means and then I’m like, and if you ever wanna talk about Diet Coke, let’s talk about Diet Coke.

And I have to tell you that I get so many messages from people and then use it to bring it in as a way to connect. So I just got asked to speak at a conference and the woman in who messaged me, the subject line was, I love Diet Coke too, right? I opened it and I was already like laughing and smiling.

Somebody else applied for a job and was like by the, I want you to know I’m actually more of a Sprite person, but I respect your love of Diet Coke. I love that idea. That’s the whole human, that’s authenticity. That’s the fact that I love a particular brand and I am not afraid to say it. And it allows people a window into who I am, and I think there’s so much power in that.

So I love that. And then you mentioned audio events, which I am so into. I think that this. Credible new product and something where just being able to have these conversations. It’s something I think that’s really powerful is that there’s no video. Right now it’s just audio. And I think that is special in that we are all zoom fatigued or tired of just the preparing and the being on at all times that I think you really hear authentic conversation when you just hear people talking as if they’re talking on the phone or having a conversation in person.

[00:25:12] Jessy: Yes. Everybody is Zoom fatigued. Everybody’s Google meet fatigued, whatever platform they use, teens, whatever. It like. I people sound different when you’re just listening to their audio. Why? Most people are multitasking. Let’s be honest. I’m like, I don’t think that’s a bad thing at all. Because the real, like what ends up happening is that I don’t know, people just sound more casual.

They sound more themselves. It, it’s, it’s a really cool forum. and I don’t know, I think that just the conversation piece is the most interesting. That’s one thing I’m really into it. Some of the other platforms, like most of them, they’re very visually based. Obviously Instagram, or whether it’s, 

[00:25:56] Callie: Video, short form or 

[00:25:57] Jessy: long form and there are those tools on LinkedIn, but I find that it’s all about conversation and like however you feel the most comfortable having that conversation.

If it’s video or written word or whatever, or audio like then. , but I don’t know, I, I prefer the audio format. I prefer the written format. I think it’s really interesting how people just feel a little bit more themselves and it’s probably exactly what you described. Like they just don’t feel like they have to be on as much.

We don’t have to like, look at ourselves awkwardly we’re speaking cause that’s just not real life. So I love that and. I love, the newsletter feature as well. You know, it was recently released to everybody, I think, who’s in creator mode, which is really cool. So to be able to explore, more long form writing.

And it doesn’t have to be though. It could be a short or as long as you want it, I guess, but I’m somebody who really respects and appreciates we were talking about it. Words, right? And I don’t know that enough people. Explore writing as much as maybe they used to. So I think that it’s a really great medium that you guys have offered just like natively builds into the platform.

I love it. I wanna know, as a creator, let’s say someone listens to this conversation, they’re enthused, they’re like, Hallie’s great. She has really interesting things to say. I’m generally enthusiastic about this, but it’s let’s go for it. Let’s create some stuff on LinkedIn. Let’s explore. How do you think that someone can become like a great creator on LinkedIn and really get traction and grow an audience?

We’ve spoken about like authenticity. We’ve spoken about being themselves, are there any other things that you can give to our audience? I’m sure they’d love to hear any 

[00:27:54] Callie: tips. Experiment. That would be my number one piece of advice, which is trying different formats you spoke to earlier. Newsletters, articles, audio events just plain text, short phone.

I would say figure out what works for you and don’t be afraid to try, because you will be amazed at how one format that you saw was totally your perfect space might actually become something else. And I think there’s such value in also showing your c. That you are really open and are trying new things and not everything has to be perfect.

You know, Nita Mallek is an amazing creator and one of the things she talks about is she goes seven days a week and not every post is a hit and she has 45,000 followers, and that’s okay. And I think that’s something that’s meaningful. If, the thing I would say is comment. Comment, have conversation.

Because the more successful you are as a person, I believe, and the more successful creator you will be, your community will feel a much stronger tie to you. And I think that is really where success comes in, is in those community bonds. So being active in the comment section, responding to people, answering questions, tagging people in, to ask them to weigh in with their perspective.

I think there is so much value in doing that. So I would. Experiment and be active in the comments. Now, if there’s somebody who has never posted before and is I’m scared, I dunno what to post, I always say, you can build thought leadership in the comments. Just start leaving comments. You can be a lurker.

It’s totally fine. If you’re not ready to post yet, you’re not ready to go full creator. That’s totally cool. Just start leaving comments because the reality is you gain more confidence in what you are putting out there and in the fact that you are putting your opinion out there when you start just experimenting and maybe in the beginning it’s, thanks so much for sharing that.

I learned a lot from this article and then maybe in two weeks it’s a full-blown paragraph about the ways in which you are experiencing Zoom fatigue. It’s such a great way to step into. Posting on LinkedIn. And so those would really be my pieces of advice and 

[00:30:08] Jessy: testing and learning. Experimenting a hundred percent.

I love that so much. Cause I also feel like you could, you know, say like, all right, like this month I wanna just dig into this specific topic and maybe that topic is best received or even best communicated. In, in a number of those different ways, like maybe it is audio, maybe it’s an article.

It could be a d a bunch of different ways or like how I say it. So again, I think that you’re amongst people who seem to generally appreciate learning and growth and professional, personal, all that stuff. So like I, I find that people are very receptive to even just saying that I’m experimenting with something here.

What do you guys think? Polls are really fun on there too. There’s just really, I just I don’t know if LinkedIn felt like this. A few years ago. I don’t know, is the answer. Could have, but I just think that LinkedIn now feels so perfectly balanced between this like professional and like human piece of who we all are.

And I, I just really appreciate it. Speaking of just like humans, were trying our best, some of us who may be listening might feel as. 

[00:31:35] Callie: Just going through their own 

[00:31:37] Jessy: professional journey, that they’re a little stuck in their careers. I hear this from our community, whether, they’re trying to either break in or they’re trying to, oh, I have all this experience in this one area, but like I’m a little burnt out and I wanna switch, I wanna.

Or they’re just, looking to grow in their career and maybe to get, bumped up to the next level, 

[00:32:05] Callie: but feeling stuck 

[00:32:06] Jessy: in some way, shape or form. I’m sure you’re privy to so much just professional stories, inspirational things that people have shared on there. And of course your on professional journey.

I’d love to hear what advice would you give to somebody who just broadly feels stuck in their career? 

[00:32:25] Callie: I would say three things. First, own your value. Second, look for opportunity. And three, count yourself in. And what these mean to me are things that I have done throughout my career, especially when I have felt stuck.

So number one, I have never had a job that existed before I had it. What does that mean? It means I have either made up a job, a company has made up a job for me, or I was the first person to hold that. To me, this is the perfect example of why we all need to take an entrepreneurial approach to our careers.

And that’s true whether you’re at a Fortune 50 company or whether you are starting your own company. And it is you, yourself, and you. And that’s where I think there’s so much power in talking to other people. What is unique about me? What is my unique value? What’s something that somebody else sees that I might not necessarily be seeing?

Talk to friends, talk to coworkers, think about different ways. Then look for opportunity. And when I say that, look for what’s not listed on the job site. Look for what is not currently being searched for. Why? Because that’s the opportu. That’s really where the opportunity is. Yes, of course there are amazing opportunities listed.

But what if you said, my unique value is in running PR and this company doesn’t have PR yet, and there’s a real opportunity for them too. They might think they’re too young. You know what? I should go in there and I should pitch myself and I have to say. Counting yourself in is one of the easiest to say and one of the hardest to do because you are competing with the mental gymnastics in your head and the voice that is telling you you don’t really fit all the criteria.

Oh, why would they take you? Right. We have to throw that all out. You have to count yourself in your career, even when you feel stuck by taking direct action that you can control. So maybe it’s around reaching out to someone and saying, I would love to have coffee. Could we chat about the industry? I would love to meet you and learn more about your career.

Could we connect? What’s the worst that happens? They say, no. Okay. They said, no. What’s the best that? , they say, yes, you meet and this person becomes a transformative figure in your career. Now that’s not gonna always happen, but I very much love the odds of always counting myself in and I think that’s something that with the more practice we get more comfortable with, especially as 

[00:34:54] Jessy: women, I don’t even know what to say cuz I, I’m just sitting here, I’m like, that’s so good.

I hope everybody like rewinds for the last, couple minutes and plays all that back. It’s really powerful what you’re. And, in that same spirit I think it’s really important to just be real about even our own professional journeys. We’re talking on a podcast right now and some people will be like, oh, like she must be, really set in her career and at the top of it and, has accomplished so much.

People might be either intimidated or, discouraged, perhaps even. They’re like, oh I don’t know if I could ever do something like, I’d love to hear just like moments in your career maybe where you know, you doubted yourself or you struggled, or you had a moment where you were just human and maybe overcame it.

You said it’s easy to say all this, but it can be challenging to like to live it and to breathe it, where did you lean? Where did you get your inspiration or your push? External, was it internal or like a combination of the two? 

[00:36:07] Callie: I love this question, so I have grown up always feeling like an underachiever and an underperformer.

I did terribly on state tests in elementary school because I had fallen behind in reading and had to learning disability, and so I was always someone who was driven by the idea that I had to be better, I had to work harder, I had to do this, I had to do. And it’s something that is so dangerous when actually used in the wrong way.

And what I mean by that is that I always say you only set boundaries once. And what that means is that when you walk into a job and you say, I am superhuman. I will answer emails at 12:00 AM You send me something at 9:00 PM I’m there. You need someone to do the extra work. I’m there. That is actually setting up and training people to believe that you have no boundaries.

And one of the things that I have found to be so important throughout my career is that I have actually felt the crushing mental, physical, emotional bankruptcy that comes when work is the only thing in your life. I thought that was the only way to succeed was that you have to have a myopic focus, nothing else.

And what I have seen since that moment when I really. Who am I without? My job title is that it’s actually the things outside of work that make you so much better at work. The things that make you realize the power in really connecting with your colleagues and having that personal sense of who they are.

That is something that was a transformative experience for me in my career. I think that there are so many moments where you. Rock bottom and aren’t necessarily sure what to do. And what I would say is, if you are thinking about it in the connection of your work life, ask yourself, do I have enough of a separation between who I am at work and who I am outside of work?

I remember just in high school, it’s you’re only as good as your last test score. You’re only as good as your s a t. You’re only as good as the college You. We can’t put that pressure on ourselves anymore. And I think what part of redefining professionalism is redefining success. And redefining success means that it does not necessarily have to look the same way than it’s looked for the last 50, a hundred years.

And so I think thinking outside the box, dreaming up those opportunities that might not exist yet, seeing what success means to. Is actually one of the most empowering things you can do in your career, especially when it comes to calming and quieting that voice in your head that might be saying, you don’t have it in you.

You do have it in you, and you just have to learn to talk back to that. One of the biggest things that I think about is a win spreadsheet or a list of nice notes or something. I have a label in my Gmail that’s called Nice notes, and whenever I get something that just makes me. So seen and so genuinely appreciated.

I label it nice notes, and when I’m having one of those days that’s just oh my God, who am I? I am so scared. I know nothing. Oh my gosh. Everyone knows I’m a fraud. I go to nice notes and I read it and I read through various emails that I’ve received, or I read through some notes that I’ve taken of feedback that I’ve gotten from managers, from friends, from family, and I remember that is who I am.

And so I would say one of the number one things I would recommend is keep. Keep a list of your wins or your nice notes or places in which you can turn to and remember that a win does not have to be that you ran 26.2 miles or you nailed the project. It could be that you reached out to someone and they wrote back and that’s awesome.

[00:39:57] Jessy: Hey, that’s sound good. That’s so good. I like, isn’t it interesting how much more accessible. The losses are sometimes like, oh, that is like a feedback loop in your mind. Oh, I screwed that up. Or oh, that didn’t go well. But there are so many moments in between that are these little wins. And so I love that because those don’t come to my mind at least as often as the other shortcomings do, and, and if you. Easily access it and train yourself, essentially like just reprogram your mind. Anything can be changed. And what did they say? Two, three weeks? Just like repetition. And I love that. So, for all of us who are. Doing a million things, going a million miles a minute, all the time to just set aside some time to, to put something, to, to reaffirm some positive affirmations yourself like that’s so good.

And then like in that similar vein, What about women who struggle to advocate for themselves? It could be really difficult and I do think that it’s important to talk about women in particular who might struggle with this. What would you tell those women if you can give them any 

[00:41:20] Callie: advice?

One of the first things I would do is look at your resume and look at your. . We talked about words earlier. Are you assisting? Are you helping? Right? Or were you partnering? Were you managing? Were you doing something? Think about the value of words because words can actually change your own perception of something.

Think about it if you say, I’m so stupid, I had nothing. Right? Your brain is okay. Whereas if you’re like, wow, that was an opportunity. I really learned from next time I’m gonna be more prepared for the meeting. You’re telling your brain that you’re safe and you’re okay. And so one of the things I would say is go back to those colleagues or those friends.

It can feel so scary to ask for feedback, but get feedback and ask people. Where am I strong? Where am I strong? Where am I excelling, and what are my biggest opportunities for improvement? Because once you know those two things, you can advocate for yourself better. I think it’s hard to come to the realization that your boss is not a mind reader.

That is something that is so hard, right? How do they not know I want that promotion? Don’t they know I’m good enough for this job? Right? You have to clearly articulate what it is that you want, and if you don’t tell your boss or manager, They’ll never know. And so I think that’s something that oftentimes it might just be about testing the waters.

It might just be about saying you. , I’d love to be considered if a roll up opens up, maybe the next time it’s, I saw this roll opened up, then I would really love to go for it. Or do I have your support if I wanna reach out to the hiring manager about this role inside the company? Think about different ways that you can get comfortable with advocating for yourself and taking ownership of what it is that you do.

Think about your resume if you’re. Looking for a job right now, or maybe you are looking for a job right now. The resume is between you and the company you’re gonna work for. You’re not shouting from the rooftops how amazing you are. Take a look at that resume and think about ways in which you can own your language and strengthen the vocabulary that you use to really reflect the value that you are bringing to a corpor.

[00:43:28] Jessy: That’s so good. I don’t know. What have we taken away from this conversation today? , just like the power of words, and, and also just the power of conversation because I appreciate that so much. We, we make so many assumptions, Ugh, my manager should know that I’m working so hard behind the scenes and I deserve this, that, and the other.

They probably. , they might not, let’s get, let’s start there. And like, we’re all busy doing our own things. If they’re a fantastic manager, yes, they’re acknowledging and seeing everything around them, but people are people, and I’ve been the boss too, and you are as well. And like sometimes, we get.

Pulled in a million different directions and it’s hard to be the best boss. Have empathy for them too, and know that like even by you advocating for yourself, you might be helping them. That sounds a little crazy, but like it’s true. Maybe like we all have someone to report to, right?

And so, if you help them do their job better because they’ve been pulled in a million different directions, and you say, Hey. I’ve been working on this and get feedback from colleagues, tell them like, what have I been doing really well lately? Or where are my flaws? Where can I improve?

being able to share that with them. Hey, gonna actually be grateful for you to be able to pull them aside and share that with them. They may not be doing it with malicious intent. Every situation’s different of course, but, look at the very least, being able to take ownership of that your.

I appreciate, being able being able to advocate for yourself no matter what the outcome. It like changes the power to be inside of yourself. And if you know that like you did everything that you could, you can’t control other people. You can only really. What you do and what you say.

I’d also love in the spirit of, community that we’ve been chatting about for like us to also advocate for each other too. Because look, the truth is that as much as we wanna, I hope that you know all the women that you know are in my orbit, you’re orbit like they’re all powerful, strong women who feel, comfortable and empowered to advocate for the.

Sometimes they don’t. And in certain circumstances, even the strongest of us don’t, and so if you ever see somebody who’s struggling a little bit and you think that you can help them, help advocate for them, it’s a really powerful thing to be able to do for somebody. Anyways, I, I’ve really enjoyed this conversation.

I, I wanna get you more involved in. I so much of what you’re chatting about today is like this true like spirit of what we’re all about. So I just so appreciate you coming and talking to us today. I have a feeling that some of our community is gonna wanna reach out for a number of different reasons. So if they do, when they do, so, I recommend that they do

What is the best way for them to get in touch with you? 

[00:46:40] Callie: Send me a message on LinkedIn. I will be there and I can’t wait to read and. Amazing. Thank you so, so 

[00:46:49] Jessy: much for coming today, Kelly. It’s been such a 

[00:46:51] Callie: pleasure. Thank you, Jesse. The community that you have built is amazing and supporting women in business and in learning to advocate for ourselves is one of the most important conversations we can be having.

So, so happy to have been able to be part of this. I’m inspired by you and the community and I’m happy.