Influencer Marketing Outside the US

[00:00:00] Gordon: What you’re finding more and more is these top creators are becoming entrepreneurs. They are being used for campaign after campaign after campaign because they are totally in line with the numbers. They analyze the numbers inside out. They understand their audience intrinsically. influencers are the next creatives.

[00:00:30] Jessy: Hello. Hello. Welcome to the party. Hi guys. Welcome back. It is, it’s a good week this week. Hi, my name is Jessi Grossman and I am the founder of Women and Influencer Marketing, better known as WIIM. I hope you guys Watch on YouTube or Spotify. We have put so much effort into editing this show for video consumption.

And it’s a lot more fun, I think, to like, not just see me, but to like to see our guests because this week we have a guest episode. I’m very excited for you. I just think it makes it better. I part like I’ve said this a few times. I. Love watching the podcasts that I enjoy. So anyway, I hope you do too. Shoot us a subscription on our YouTube.

Please, please, please, please. We could use a few more subscribers over there. And again, we just put so much effort into putting these in video format. So I hope you enjoy them and I hope that more of you guys check it out. So yes, this week is an interview episode. We have a cool guest that I’m very excited for you guys to meet and get to know.

But also this is why is this such a good week you ask? It’s because this is the week of our best-in-influencer tech event. So some of you guys have attended before, and some of you guys have no idea what the heck I’m talking about. So this event, this is like our, I feel like I should know the number by now, but I think this is like our sixth or seventh time hosting this event.

We do it. twice a year. It started during the pandemic when everything was virtual. And while this year was our year of in-person events, and we hosted two in LA two in New York, and one in Chicago, this event just makes the most sense virtual. And we always have a great turnout. So what the event is, is it’s like a virtual Demo showcase of who we think are the best companies in influencer tech.

Why does this apply to you? It does. So if you’re a talent manager, we have,   partner up, which is,     software that’s like. Pretty much tailor-made for talent managers, because I’ve been in your shoes and I know that you need good tack to keep you organized and to keep the campaigns running smoothly and to house all of this information.

We’ve got a solution for you sort of like the best in class. It’s like. discovery, search, you know, reporting, like sort of like an all-in-one, we’ve got two of those. You guys, we have tagger, we have dash Hudson. We also have a cool company called Trend. Thus trend is all about improving the checkout process for people.

I know all of you are always talking about like. Wanting to improve sales and wanting to, you know, increase that ROI. And so the trend is a cool tech platform that it’s like specifically focused on making the checkout process frictionless. And so you create influencers can, it’s twofold. Influencers can create little shops that make the checkout process look so good by, you know, they’ll demo it.

  but it makes the.   the checkout process is seamless and easy so you don’t get drop-offs. And I think that brands should be using tools like that as well and not enough arms. So demos of all of these products like short and sweet, well produced. So it’s fun because we always try to keep our virtual events fun.

And in addition to that,   I pretty much require them all to have a promotion for you of some sort, because I love a good deal. I love a good discount and I want to extend that to you guys. So we’ve done this event many times before. We have almost 200 people registered now, and I hope that we have you as well.

So all you have to do is go to I am WIIM. com slash tech and RCE for that. It is on November 2nd, starting at noon. And if you are CP, by the way, you do get the ability to watch replay access on your own time for a short period. So if you do have a call and you’re like, Oh, I can’t make it anyway like still register out and it’s completely free.

So like, there’s no friction to that either. Anyway, it’s a really good event. I know that a lot of you are looking for. Either like tech in the first place or looking for better tech or just trying to solve a lot of problems or be like, it is the tech that I use the best that’s out there. So truly we’ve spent so much time with you guys and like gathering this group of people.

They are freaking amazing and I am excited to share them with you and also to give you those tips. Discounts. Okay. So this week’s guest, we have a man on the show. You guys, we invite the men as well. We’re a welcoming bunch here at WIM. So we don’t discriminate even though some people are like, it has to be only for women, right?

It is not, of course, we love promoting our women, but there are some cool guys too who support women and we support them. So we will have guys on the show. So, Gordon Glenister is an international. Influencer marketing expert. He set up the influencer division at the branded content marketing association.

He has a bestselling book named Influencer Marketing Strategy and hosts no less than three podcasts.   most notable is the. Influencer global podcast. And so some of you guys may follow him and know him from that.   he has his successful influencer marketing program as well, which I think is very cool.

I’ve been wanting to do one myself, but where’s the time when he designed to help business owners and leaders become subject matter experts and elevate their personal? Brands. Hello. You guys have heard me talk about how important personal branding is.   he’s also entrenched in the membership sector,   running the membership world, which is a community of association and membership professionals.

His website is glordenglannister.com. com. You can follow him on the social platforms, which we will mention at the end of this episode. I hope you enjoy it. We’re like, like, we’re like siblings from another, I mean, I was going to say sisters from another mister, but we’re siblings from another. I don’t know. We’re, we’re similar.

We do memberships, community, and influencer marketing. He’s a cool guy. He’s like my doppelganger in London and the male version, a ridiculous statement, but I think you’ll get what I’m saying after you listen to this episode, I appreciate you guys listening and I hope you enjoy.

This show is sponsored by Women in Influencer Marketing, better known as WIM, the best online community for the creator economy. You will meet fellow influencer marketers, you’ll meet brands, you’ll meet talent agencies to talk shop, get hired, and even find a mentor. When you become a member, do not forget to Check out all of our incredible resources.

For example, we have dozens of masterclasses from the top voices, TikTok, YouTube, award-winning agencies, and women who are paving the way for us all. So if you want the chance to network with a free student in films or marketing, check out what it takes to become a member. Make more money and have fun doing it.

Visit me at wim.com/join. That’s I-A-M-W-I im.com/join today and I so look forward to seeing you more around the community. All right, Gordon, so I. I’m very excited to have you on today. We like chatted a little bit last week, and got to know each other. And I just feel like there’s, first of all, a lot of synergies between us, which is kind of refreshing to be completely honest.

I don’t meet a lot of people who are in this niche world of influencer marketing meets membership. So I was looking forward to our call last week. And then I was like, Ooh, now we can continue the conversation. on this show. So first and foremost, welcome. And how are you? 

[00:08:40] Gordon: Yes. Welcome to you too.

And I’m pleased to be on your show. I mean, you’re, you were saying how pleased you were to, to discuss with me. Well, ditto, and vice versa. I’m hugely supportive and inspired by what you’ve done in, in America as well. So it’s a well done you. 

[00:08:58] Jessy: Thank you. And I’m equally as impressed and like, I think it’s pretty cool.

We’re like conquering the world on different sides of it, which is pretty cool, right? So, for those people who are tuning in, our audience is a mix of all different kinds of people on the planet, the Brand side, and the management side. We’ve certainly got some creators who tune in. I think it would be cool for them to hear a little bit about you and your own words about your professional journey.

[00:09:28] Gordon: Yeah, no. Well, I’ll make it brief because there’s a lot, there’s a lot that’s happened. So. I come from an association background. I used to run, the British promotional merchandise association for 11 years. Then in 2018, I left that industry with a view to helping other trade associations with their strategy, membership growth, also things like that.

And one of them was the branded content marketing association. And I sat with the CEO. Never forget it in a Soho London hotel. And we were having a chat about various things about membership. And then I said to him, almost at the end of our conversation, I said, what about this whole influencer space? I mean, it’s, it’s mad, isn’t it?

It’s a bit unregulated, a bit like a wild West, but who’s looking after and representing this industry from a best practice point of view, from an educational point of view, and indeed from a lobbying point of view? So he looked at me to just say, I’m not sure there is anybody. So we decided to create, well, we were going to have a separate trade association, professional membership body, but then we thought, well, why don’t we create a division within the brand new content marketing association?

Because we’re already. We have a footprint in 17 different countries through our sort of franchise model and branded content and influencer marketing is very sort of symbiotic in a way. So that’s what happened. We launched it in 2019 in a big London nightclub, which in itself was quite an amazing feast.

What I got for what I got in terms of. Borrowed and begs to get stuff because you probably know when you launch something, you don’t always have a big budget.   and even the goodie bag was worth over 100 of all sorts of exciting things. What made me laugh was that I got quite a lot of influences that came to the event and one or two of them.

Would stay for a little bit, get their picture, get their goodie bag, and then they’d be off because it was just one free drink, you know, and then I remember speaking to one of them and I said, Oh, it’s great to see you. Well, why are you leaving? Oh, it’s been amazing, Gordon, but I’ve got four other events to go to tonight.

And it’s just, at that moment, I thought, Oh my goodness. It just shows you how. popular. Some of these people are and how much in demand they were. So not long after that, I found myself launching a podcast, which is now very successful called the Influence Global Podcast. And we’ve interviewed some amazing people all around the world.

And then a little while after that, I went to a marketing show and,   asked if they got a book on influencer marketing. And they said that they hadn’t. So I thought, Oh, you know, bearing in mind, you have to remember, Jesse, I didn’t know a lot about the sector. I’d sort of fell into this, you know, and, and I, and I certainly had never written a book before in my life.

So I thought, right, well, how about I,   I put a proposal forward to this publisher. And after my first, they were interested and they started to chase me down because people would say to me, Oh, it’s really difficult to get a publishing deal. I had the editor. Saying we like your proposal.

Can we have a meeting? And I thought, yeah, I’ll get around to it. And anyway, I did. And I was delighted to get the publishing contract. And you know what the moral of this story is, is that if you want to create a great book,   in interviews with amazing people, and that’s what I did. I interviewed what I call the godfathers of the industry, right?

So when the book came to be launched, I used the powers of influencer marketing to get my book because all these people who have supported the book shared it on their socials and were very supportive of me. It’s since been translated into Portuguese in Brazil. And,   we’ve also made a documentary film, which is nuts.

I think I told you about this, didn’t I, last time? So, the Brazilian,   publishing flew me over there, and,   we did a launch in Sao Paulo in this cinema. The tickets to the event sold out in one minute. That’s how Brazilians treat influencer marketing. And I’ve got all these photographers there.

I was signing books for three hours. And I’m just like this regular guy from Cambridge in the United Kingdom who’s come into this sort of space. And I’ve, you know, I’ve loved it. The whole journey that I’m now also a university lecturer with some, you know, I’m all about helping the next generation of marketers get into.

Into influencer marketing. And,   I’m an international speaker as well. And I love it. I love making a difference and you’ll notice for those.   that is viewing as opposed to listening that I’m not 23 and I’m not a woman, you know, I’m almost 60, and in a way I’m proud that I’m able to sort of really shine a spotlight on a lot of these young people that do, that create amazing content, great brand collaborations.

And you know, it’s a, it’s, it’s now a discipline that, that is, is shaking up the whole advertising media. 

[00:14:36] Jessy: Well, I want to comment specifically on even just the last thing that you mentioned, because we’ve talked about it on this show before and it’s like a very real thing in my mind and I’ll just call it out.

So I, I think we’re all of us, for the most part, are so aware that like influencer marketing is this very unique industry where It skews very young, it skews very female, and so for me, of course, I got the female thing going for me, but I’m always like thinking, you know, how much longer am I going to,   until I age out of it, you know, there’s just, there’s like a very real fear there.

Will I age out of this or, you know, will just like my younger predecessors be, you know, the ones who are more sought after things like that? Two things I want to say. Number one is I appreciate that it sounds like you’re very much invested in the next generation of people and uplifting those voices around you.

So it isn’t just about, you know, this fear of. You know, what will happen to me, me, me. It sounds like you’re very invested in others, but I also appreciate your approach because along with that, you know, I hear, you know, in your book, it’s not just your thoughts. It’s like, no, I’m going to quote all these brilliant people around me and give them a platform and learn from them.

And so, yes, we’ve talked about it on the show before, so I wanted to bring it up. But I think that like. If anyone out there is like me, I don’t think I’m alone in this idea of like, see industry, like interesting industry where, you know, could I age out of it? I think what you’re doing is a way to not age out of it, which is to just continue to be open to learning from others around you to check your ego at the door.

  and even in our brief few conversations, like, I appreciate that about you. I think that that’s very like, obvious about your approach to this. And I can probably venture to say that’s why you’ve had a lot of success in it. So I just wanted to call that out. Oh, 

[00:16:39] Gordon: that’s very sweet of you. Yeah. Yeah. There were some numbers around the average age being around 28 and over 80 percent of influencers being women, which is mirrored by many of them.

The campaigns, but here’s the thing I feel strongly about men over 50. I, because I’m in that category, but we are the single biggest,   amount of disposable income, you know, our kids have left the home. In many cases, we, we, we can go on more holidays. We can, you know, the mortgages have been paid off and yet who’s talking to us?

Who is talking to us? If I want to go buy a nice car, I’ve got to see a 23-year-old driving around in it. And I, just because he’s got a big audience. So one of the things I feel strongly about is representation. And that’s not just about age. That’s also about ethnicity. So we, I, with the BCMA, we’ve got a.

company member called Open Influence. They’re based in Los Angeles. You probably know them. I love what they do. I remember when I was talking to their,   former CEO about diversity when it comes to campaigns. So they would often put forward a truly representative mix of different types of influences.

That they felt were very representative, of a particular campaign. What they found frustrating is then,   the brand might say, no, no, we’re just going to go with these white female,   individuals. And what I’m pleased about is, and there has been, they said to me that there’s been one or two instances when they have rejected.

Going forward with the campaign because they, they felt that it was an unhealthy way to, to move forward with the campaign, which I think is, is great because we’ve got to feel that, you know, it doesn’t matter where you come from, what your disposition is,   this, unfortunately, if you are naive influences that out there that don’t know their true worth and value, we should be educating, educating, educating both Brands and content creators about this can work.

Both of you have different things to play. Brands want relevant audiences, creators want, you know, to create collaborations with brands that are, that are aligned together. So that’s, that’s what I love to speak about is, is education all the way through. 

[00:19:10] Jessy: And just like fair practices, like what’s.

Fair, you know, like, ’cause I will say this. I think that part of the beauty of influencer marketing is that I come from the super-regulated world of working with actors. It’s all very unionized and things like that. Like I love sort of the freedom that exists in influencer marketing as someone who enjoys negotiating, right?

Because it gives me so much more to negotiate for. But within that, there should still be in my mind, a framework of this within the parameters of fairness. This is in the parameters of if this, these are our boundaries then, and we stay somewhere within them, our industry will excel and people will be treated fairly and all good things.

I haven’t announced this publicly, but I’m, I just joined as an advisor on the Creators Guild of America. And so we’re having conversations just like that. Like, so what is fair, you know? Like.   what are some things that we can all agree on, you know, and like, for example, like payment terms, like at what point is it egregious that like, you know, you shouldn’t pay after, is it 90 days?

Is it 120 days? Like, well, how, you know, what, what is that number? And that’s the limit. And of course, we can negotiate down from there and all within those parameters. Yeah, I think it’s important to sort of establish some ground rules, right? 

[00:20:37] Gordon: Well, actually, it’s a really good point that you make. And of course, a lot of these newer influencers have become accidental business owners, even if it’s a side hustle.

And so they, they, they won’t necessarily have the business acumen. And I don’t mean to say that. that in a derogatory way. They just won’t have been known. And that’s why that naivety has meant that brands and agencies have leveraged that and will you do this? And will you do that extra? And we’re going to put your, your images on our, on our websites.

And so, the rights issues, for example, are classics where the influencer has not negotiated extra payment. For wider usage, but and payment don’t get me started about payment. Generally, I have a really big bugbear about that. You know, I mean, if if big brands want to take 120 days or 90 days to pay somebody is outrageous and not acceptable.

And I’m just thinking, why would you do that to an influencer with a big audience? I mean, you’re thinking. They’ve got an audience that could say,   don’t work with this brand. These aren’t the right people to work with that could be super damaging for the brand. So, you know, I always say, treat your influencers, and content creators with respect.

They’re not employees. They are proper professionals. in their own space. You know, that’s why the BCMA set,   created a set of industry best practice guidelines. And I’m proud of that. We, worked together as a council to go through those,   things that we felt were important.

To both content creator and brand. Because I think sometimes brands don’t know what best practices they’re, you know, particularly the newer, newer organizations that are investing in influencer marketing for the first time. They may see influencer marketing just like they would like any other form of ad spend, and it’s, it’s not.

[00:22:38] Jessy: And that was exactly going to be my, my next question for you. So like predominantly on our, like our audience is, you know, generally influencer marketers working for brands and agencies and we have talent managers and things like that. But my question to you is what would you tell influencer marketers that they should be doing better?

And I’m going to leave it broad and open to interpretation, however, you want to answer that question. 

[00:23:03] Gordon: Well, I mean, for me, it is all about having a best practice,   template, you know, it’s about making sure that every negotiation is tabled. You have a proper brief, and I mean a proper brief. I mean, there’s detail and there’s super detail.

How many times do you say,   in the brief, well, this is the way the product is being pronounced, is it? Adidas or Adidas, you know, is it Nike or Nike? It’s just used as an example. They could have gone and made this super video and they say, actually, no, this is not the way we pronounce our brand.

Go do it again. Well, that is a huge amount of cost and time wasted.   I think in that brief, there should be things like, these are our sort of competitors. These are some of the keywords that we use. These are some of the hashtags that we use. These are our key selling tips, features, and benefits.

When we’ve done advertising with our sales team, these are the things that have worked. That doesn’t, that, that is, that’s not an instruction manual. That is just use, you know, it’s a total guide to give them as much. It’s like saying, well, if you hired a salesperson. You wouldn’t just say, right, there you go.

Then off you go. And let’s just, let’s just watch the sales roll in. No, you want to give them as much information that allows them to be successful because, for me, a successful campaign with an influencer works well for the influencer works well for the brand, and vice versa. If it lands badly, the influencer might get paid, but a campaign that doesn’t work, for the influencer.

Doesn’t look good for the influencer either and their audience, you know, they, they both have a vested interest in making sure this works. So I think, and when it comes to contracts, it’s making sure it’s super clear about, you know, what happens if you don’t post at four o’clock. on Tuesday. Well, because unfortunately, there are some influences as such.

Oh, I was busy. I didn’t get around to it. Well, sorry, but we’re paying you because it’s part of a major product launch, you know? So I think it’s also about understanding that if you are going to enter a financial collaboration, you are super clear. with what is expected of you and what happens if you don’t, you know, if you blaspheme in the video or if you don’t manage,   because the brand doesn’t want to get blowback,     either.

So it’s just literally about common sense. Another sort of tip is to have the contact details in WhatsApp or Slack or something so that you’re. able to communicate much more quickly and easily,   I know that works very well with influencers,   making sure that they’re always informed throughout the process so that,   you know, there’s a general level of excitement when the post goes live.

How’s it going? Share any sort of comments because it’s almost like they’re going on a journey. And if they, I mean, I can’t remember if I shared this with our previous conversation, but there was,   there was a black content creator that I interviewed as part of my, one of my podcasts. And she was amazing.

She was a Scottish creator and she did a campaign with a quintessential British brand. Perhaps not necessarily you would have associated with a diverse audience. So basically what she did was an amazing video, really creative. And some of the comments that she got back were, I loved this. This was amazing.

And I wouldn’t have associated myself with that brand until you created that type of content.   now she was able to screengrab that and feed that back to the audience. So it was her tone of voice that made it very much more acceptable than the traditional advertising, which was, which was a little bit bland and, and not necessarily identify these little niches, which of course, influencer marketing can do well for.

I appreciate 

[00:27:17] Jessy: you saying that. I think like, I don’t know, I’ve, I’ve been dying to have just like more innovation generally, and I, I also come from the world of advertising, so what I appreciate you saying is like, you know, it wasn’t advertising, it wasn’t, you know, it like there’s a such a, distinction there and it was received as such and I think that you know, too much of the time.

We get influencer marketers, we get into these like routines. And I think that a lot of people are trying to scale this. And so how do you scale something? You create a process and you create repeatable systems and stuff. And I think I’ve said it a bunch of times on this show and elsewhere. I just don’t think influencer marketing is.

Scalable. And I don’t think that’s a bad thing. It’s a relationship business at its core relationships amongst creators and brands, certainly relationships amongst influencers and their communities. And I don’t think that if, if you treat it as a scalable relationship, it loses that, you know, personal. How is that?

That connection that is so important so you could never have a, a story to tell like you just did where she shared something in such a personal way that it resonated with someone and it made somebody think about, you know, this brand in a completely different way. They didn’t identify with it.

It didn’t mean anything to them originally. And for that to shift, like that has to be done in such a particular way, you know? 

[00:28:52] Gordon: 100 percent I just want to add something as well. I think so often we think about influencer marketing as a brand awareness and now increasingly as a sales channel.

But one area that I think has got huge potential is one of research. In other words, is using product ideas and speaking. I know some of the footwear companies have explored this idea of having your personalized t-shirt, your personalized shoe or so you, you know, the audience can start to add a part as part of the R and D.

And I think that’s fascinating. And I want to just bring with you an example of an influencer agency that,   in Brazil, it was, I think it was in Brazil. Yeah. They decided to bring,   four influencers,   to a hotel for three or four days, and they were going to create a brand. together with these influencers and their audience live while this was going on.

It was a product that was already successful in North America, but they wanted to see how South America, it was a sweetener, it was a sweetener brand. To cut a long story short, it was so successful because, the individual influence sort of reaching out to their followers and say, look, I mean, I’m, it wasn’t about telling the story of what they were doing.

It would go with brand strategy and colors. What’s important to you, as a sweetener, is what its ingredients and all this sort of stuff was coming together. And so of course, when the product came to be launched, these influencers were, and their audiences were very much involved because they’d seen the process, of ideation right the way through to results.

And There couldn’t have been a better ROI because actually, the company that invested in this UK agency bought the agency. After all, they were so impressed with it. 

[00:30:43] Jessy: Ah, that’s a cool success story. Yeah, interesting, eh? I would love to see influencer marketing just like employing more creativity. You know, like what you described is like, it’s about the colors and like all those nitty-gritty details.

So I don’t know. I love there’s a very, it’s a very different mindset when you approach this work from like a really, truly creative lens. Well, you know, the 

[00:31:06] Gordon: The answer to that is, is not to use them as pure amplifiers is to bring them into the creative process. Much, much earlier. I mean, I talk about influencers being the next creative agencies.

I do. I mean, they, they’ve got so much potential, which sadly sometimes is left. So the brand’s got the idea, they’ve got the campaign and they said, Oh, we’ll just get some influencers to push it out and amplify no, no. These are people who know the audience, know the market you’re in. Why don’t you bring them into a brainstorming session about what could be in the direction of this campaign?

And I think you’ll get spectacular results. 

[00:31:45] Jessy: Totally. And I also, I don’t know, there’s been like an interesting conversation happening lately that I’m very intrigued by, which is this distinction between creators. And influencers and, you know, that creators are the creatives that you’re describing.

Influencers are those that are more salespeople in my mind. And some people are both, I think, you know, for creating like a Venn diagram, like fewer are in that in-between place and much more on either side, man, like if you could just find and identify those. people who are both or strategically use, you know, creators for this, you know, influencers for that.

I think that could be a really powerful thing. I’m curious to hear from you what, you know, with all this being said, what do you think is the future of influencer marketing? Like let’s not talk 20 years from now, but like, you know, just in the next year, like what would you predict might be some changes or things we might see?

[00:32:49] Gordon: Thank you. So I think over the last few years, and it’s, you are seeing a more professional industry emerge,   more people are content creators that are coming in at the bottom of the triangle, but the top triangle, you’ve come from an acting profession, what you’re finding more and more is these top creators are becoming entrepreneurs and they are being used for the campaign after campaign after campaign because they are successful.

Totally in line with the numbers, they know what type of video works, they analyze the numbers inside out, and they understand their audience intrinsically, which is why I say, you know, for instance, and an ex creatives, creative agencies. Rather, I also see social commerce. We’re already starting to see a lot more of that.

Of course, Asia is exploding needs. with this all well before us and you know when you’ve got people like Becky Lai who famously sold a hundred minis ie the cars in less than five minutes from one of her posts I think that just speaks volumes about what’s possible. And you get sort of fan mania in certain parts of the world.

It is,   quite, quite funny to watch. Are there, 

[00:34:07] Jessy: to that point, I would love to, like, from your perspective, I want to lean into the fact that you’re on the other side of the pond and you have a more unique perspective being where you are, like. Are there any markets in particular that you think are sort of hot that people should particularly explore if they’ve just been solely focused on America?

And also I’m curious, like, so you were mentioning earlier about like, The Asian market being, you know, obviously incredible for social selling. And, you know, I just, I’m so aware that our, our community in particular WIIM, like we’re just pretty solely focused on the American market. And I think that there’s so much more out there and opportunities and other markets to like to explore for, you know, for certain products and services, you know, parts of the world that people should like to pay attention to.

Cause there’s a lot of exciting things happening there in terms of influencer marketing. 

[00:35:05] Gordon: Definitely. Definitely. Well, I’m writing the next edition of influencer marketing as we speak. And there’s a section in the book, which is all about,   influencer marketing around the world. And when I did it last time, I sort of touched on all of these different markets.

I mean, America is, is huge for sure. But you’ve Brazil is massive. They go nuts in Brazil for great YouTubers. I think I’ve seen some stats that suggest that there’s a greater conversion of influencers to product sales in Brazil than anywhere else in the world,   as a proportion. So I think the other big area is the Middle East.

Dubai and Abu Dhabi are setting themselves up as world.   destinations for content creators. So they are, I was able to go to an event in December last year. It was called the 1 billion summit, 1 billion follower summit, big apartment. The idea is, is the speakers at the event had a combined followers number of over a billion 

[00:36:09] Jessy: followers could have been there.

Like how many influencers. 

[00:36:12] Gordon: There were 3, 000 content creators. They had 20, 000 applied. They only accepted 3, 000 people. And it was just honestly, you should have been there. So funny, because when they opened the doors, it was a bit of a wow experience. And everybody’s got their phone out doing like, I don’t 

[00:36:29] Jessy: know, you like walking into a room of celebrities, but like

more even so than that. I’d be so curious, like to sort of like examine, like, how are these people like all in one room? It’s such a fascinating 

[00:36:45] Gordon: thing. But also, what’s great is I interviewed, so I’ve got another podcast in the Middle East called Growing Your Influence. And I interviewed a guy called The Car Expert.

And he has like 400, 000 followers or more on Instagram. And guess what? Nobody’s ever seen him. His face is covered all of the time. Isn’t that amazing? And yet he delivers, this amazing support network. He gets about 300 messages a day asking for people around. I’ve got a problem with my exhaust. I’ve got a problem with this part of the car.

And he’ll answer that you try and pitch or sell to him. He’ll ignore you. But if you’ve got a problem with your car, he engaged with his audience. And it was really funny talking like we are now talking to him on the podcast, and I couldn’t see his face. 

[00:37:35] Jessy: That is so funny. And that like, I love that example though.

And that’s sort of what I was getting at. I just want to make sure that like our listeners, and our members, like it. They’re all aware of things that are sort of outside of their comfort zone or outside of their zone of awareness out there, for the taking. Like, you know, you might listening right now and have this brand and, you know, just hearing the story, it’s like, Oh, there’s like this other world out there of influencers that like, I don’t know, they just, they have a influence over people and don’t necessarily have a platform that looks like.

We expect it to like, it might not be as traditional, whatever that, if that’s even possible because our industry is so new, but you know, in the traditional sense doesn’t look and sound like we’re used to, but there’s so much there in terms of reach and just possibility and partnership. So I just want to encourage everybody to like, think outside the box a bit more.

So I appreciate that example. And even just knowing about other markets out there that they can explore as well. We have a huge part of our community that has sort of like left there, there’s like, another group of our members who have left their corporate jobs and are out there freelancing and creating their businesses as consultants and influencer marketing.

And to know that like, oh my God, go like explore other markets where, you know, maybe they’re less tapped, but they’re striped for, you know, for the taking. And I just think it’s good. To know, have an awareness of these things,   I always like to ask our guests this, do you have any pet peeves of people who are influencer marketers, whether it’s like on the brand side or the creators, like, is there anything that you’re just like, oh my gosh, can we all stop doing this, please?

I 

[00:39:31] Gordon: have. 

[00:39:34] Jessy: What are those? Would you like to share the class? 

[00:39:36] Gordon: Well, one, and it’s not, you know what, it’s not just linked to the influence of marketing. It’s what I call ghosting. It’s the fact that we are when people that we know do what you say you’re going to respond appropriately. And if I’ve sent you a request for something and I need something, it’s not because I’m interrupting your time.

It’s because. I can’t pull this together without you doing it. It’s almost like we have to, we have to say, I used to do something before where I was like, second request on the email is, you know, and, and it’s, and it’s, it’s funny how people did respond to that, but it’s just, it’s just manners and.

An etiquette about please respond to people because it’s just, you know, otherwise we all end up just keep, keep asking again and asking again, if you looked at how many things are chase emails or chase responses, I bet any of you that are in talent management will just be nodding your head listening to this because you’ll know exactly what I mean, you know, and you know, those people that are professional and get on in business, they have a great attitude.

Business ethics are wired into them because they know it’s all about, you know, let’s make it happen together. Well, those that don’t, they potentially are going to lose opportunities because they’ll miss windows where they’ve got to get back.   and also, there’s no excuse for missing deadlines. Quite frankly, you know, if you’re missing deadlines, you have an impact on the agency.

Everybody just, just makes you look stupid. You know, I, 

[00:41:12] Jessy: I hope that people, maybe that’s my hope for next year along those lines. I hope that more people are set.   a line, like a bright line test is like, if you are just missing deadlines if you are just not acting professional like we are not working with you again.

You know, I, I feel like people make a lot of excuses sometimes like, Oh, like, you know, their reach is just so great that like, we’ll make it work. We’ll like white knuckle our way through it. We’ll, you know, or, you know, we’ll look to the other, we’ll look the other way. And it’s like, no, like, because that shouldn’t.

be acceptable. And also if we enable behavior like that, it’s going to continue. And I think I wish that we all just thought about like our industry big picture and you know, we’re not established enough in like to be able to let things slide. I think that there are still so many people out there who like doubt.

You know, influencer marketing and think that it’s like a fad and think that it’s gonna go away and it’s ridiculous And I think that’s so fundamentally not true, but I think that we need to grow up a little bit I think we need to hold each other to a higher standard So I appreciate that.   I wish we could Chat forever.

I know we’re running short on time. I would love for you to pitch anything that you’ve got that you want our audience to know about, whether to follow you. I know you have a course, like what should our audience know and how can they get 

[00:42:45] Gordon: in touch? Nice for you to say. I got a book on influencer marketing strategy, which anybody can buy from Amazon or leading bookstores.

Also, hook up with my podcast. It’s called Influence the Global Podcast. And yes, I do have a program, and, the program fundamentally is all about helping make you more influential, not just as an influencer, but as a subject matter expert. And,   a lot of what we talk about is developing a really strong personal brand.

So people.   connect with you, on a deeper level. You know, I always say a brand is what somebody says about you when you’re not in the room. It’s not what you say it is. It’s what other people say you are. And if you’ve got a real grasp of your subject matter and then leveraging that through, through all these different channels, the future is bright.

[00:43:36] Jessy: I love that. We’re going to link all of those things in our show notes so you guys can find them easily. Gordon’s a great person to know and to follow. So check out all of these things, the book especially. And you have a new one that’s going to be coming out in the future. So keep an eye out for that guys.

Gordon, thank you so much for being on today. I appreciate it. 

[00:43:57] Gordon: No, it’s lovely to be on with you as well. 

[00:44:01] Jessy: If you enjoyed this episode, we gotta have you back. Check out our website for more ways to get involved, including all the information you need about joining our collective. You can check out all the information at iamwim.com. Leave us a review and a rating, but the most important thing that we can ask you to do is to share this podcast. Thanks for listening. Tune in next week.