How to Excel at Spend Efficiency

Jessy: Hey guys. Welcome back to the pod. For anyone new here, warm, warm welcome. I always feel so much pressure cause if you’re new here, you’re like, I don’t know, first impressions count and I hope we make a good one with you. I know our guest today is fantastic, so at least she will be. My name is Jessy Grossman.

And, I’m the founder of Wiim and the host of the Women Influencer Marketing Podcast. I am so excited to be here with you today. Haile Soprano from Traackr is our guest. So you’re gonna be hearing from her in just a minute. But before I get into the episode, I wanted to play a fun game of Would you rather?

No rhyme or reason why, I was just like what can I do in this intro that would be a little bit different? And who doesn’t love a good game of, would you rather.

So I’m gonna share my thoughts on these questions, but if you think so differently from whatever answer I give you, send me a comment in the YouTube video about what you would rather do and why? Because I also wanna get to know you guys better. I wish you were here to play with. 

All right. So would you rather question number one, have the ability to see 10 minutes into the future, or 150 years into the future? Okay. I think that this is like a fundamental question of Are you scared of the future? That’s what I take from this.

10 minutes into the future I feel like that goes like by so quickly and I don’t know, that’s not as important to me as 150 years into the future. So I think the question is do I wanna know what happens 150 years from now on this planet? And I definitely do.

I’m totally that person. If the question was 20 years into the future like I would say the same thing. Like some people like, I don’t know, we’re gonna go there, guys. Some people don’t wanna know, If you were given the option to know how and when you were going to die, would you wanna know that information?

I would. I totally would. I feel like I, perform well under pressure, and what I mean by that is if I knew that God forbid something was gonna happen in like a year from now, it would be go time. I would go bonkers in the next year just knowing that I could leave this earth knowing that I did everything that I wanted to do or as much of it as I could. Right?

Heck yeah. I’d wanna see 150 years into the future. Like I wanna get a glimpse of Are we screwed? Or are things gonna get any better when I hope they get better? 

Okay. Question number two, would you rather be forced to sing along or dance to every single song that you hear? Okay. So I’m like pulling from my inner musical theater kid, and I think that I would definitely wanna sing along because I was in singing classes, acting classes, dance classes, a whole nine, and dance was like, It was rough.

It was rough, guys, like I’m not naturally a dancer. I had to trudge my way and push myself to get through all those ballet and jazz classes that I took, as a kid and in college and stuff. That was not my forte. And I love singing. So definitely sing. 

Okay. Would you rather find true love today or win the lottery next year? Ooh, good question. So I’m definitely, fortunately in love already. So I have that. And heck yeah let’s freaking win the lottery. 

Okay. Fun fact about me, in terms of a lottery. I loved to gamble. I feel like I’ve said it on this podcast before, so I don’t think it’s like, too much of a oh my God, she’s a gambler.

No, like I probably will grow up to be like an 80-year-old degenerate gambler. Now I’m just like too busy to make it my full-time thing. But I love gambling. Like I’ve been in Vegas twice this year under the guise of being an industry conference, of course. 

But there are other people who will go out to dinners and continue the networking that started at the conference. My ass is gambling if you would like. Actually, it was a fun fact also, it’s a story about when I was last in Vegas for wasn’t CES, It was the trip after Creator Economy Live, I was just gambling after the conference, one of the days, and I ended up like sitting next to these like nice people, we were chatting for a while and only probably like an hour into it realized that they were both at the conference and one worked at Creator IQ and one worked at TikTok. 

I was like, oh my God. I hope I didn’t say something embarrassing over the last couple of hours. I feel like I’m like this anonymous person at the gambling table, blackjack is usually my game. Sometimes it’s craps. But anyways, so there are other influencer marketers who like to gamble too. Shout out if you like to gamble.

All right. My last, would you rather, let’s see which one should we do? Okay. They’re all kinda morbid. Okay. Would you rather be in jail for five years or be in a coma for a decade?

Okay. I guess this question is like, how scared are you of jail? I do not think I would do well in jail. I do not think I would do well in jail but in a coma for a decade. Do you like to eek it out for five years in jail or It’s a coma for a decade? Okay? Don’t think I would do well in jail, although I’ve seen every jail, documentary, and reality show, so like maybe I learned more than I think and it’s only five years versus being in a coma for a decade.

You lose double that like off your life. Okay? So like maybe by process of elimination jail for five years, although I think I’d be booked. Okay, you guys. 

So this week’s episode, like that transition, which isn’t one, we do have a really great guest. So I’m gonna read you a little bit more about her and I know you’re gonna be excited listening to her episode cause it was so good.

We just finished recording it. Okay. Halie Soprano, she is spent the last eight years in the digital media and influencer marketing industry. Her career kicked off with a focus on social media content working for Wedding Wire or The Knot where she grew the foundation of her career from organic and paid social media management before moving on to Under Armour, where she managed paid social media efforts and worked on media partnerships before finally jumping into the beauty industry where she helps skincare brand Beekman 1802 build their social strategy and influencer marketing program from the ground up.

She soon realized influencer marketing and the world of beauty was where she belonged, which is how she found her perfect fit where she is today as a senior professional services consultant at Tracckr.

So we’ve talked about Tracckr before on this podcast. I’m a big fan. Tracckr is the number one influencer marketing software for data-driven marketers. This mix of social, digital media and influencer leads the perfect path for her current role, where she now gets to work alongside some of the brightest minds in the beauty industry, helping them bring their influencer strategy to life again.

Just finished, recording this episode and she’s so lovely we talk about what it is to, build that strategy, and we talked a lot about spending efficiency, which was really fascinating. And then we also talked about what it is to be a working mom.

So I hope you guys enjoy this episode. Share it with your friends. We would love to get the word out there more that this podcast exists. We have so many loyal listeners and we know you all have friends. So tell everyone about it. If you enjoy this episode, what can you do? Share it out. I hope you enjoy it. And here’s Halie Soprano of Traackr.

Jessy: All right, everyone, thank you so much for tuning in again. We just heard all about Haley and she is here with me today. So, Haley, first and foremost, welcome to the pod. How are you?

Halie: Thank you. I’m doing well. Thank you so much for having me. I am just thrilled to be here today and can’t wait to dive into everything with you.

Jessy: Same. I’ve been looking forward to this conversation for a bit. I’ve heard a lot about you from Stephanie, who I’ve been like chatting with a bunch over at Traackr. Love her, shout out. And she was like, if you’re gonna have anyone on the podcast, Haley’s your girl.

So I am excited to just dive into a little bit more about you like hearing your perspectives all about the influencer space. And I think a really interesting place to dive in perhaps is just like, how did you even get into influencer marketing in the first place? Like how did you choose influencer marketing?

Halie: Yeah, great question. So I almost feel like influencer marketing ended up choosing me in the long run. But I think I’ve been extremely lucky to have this kind of melting pot of experiences throughout my career. All really rooted in digital media marketing. And so I had like a short summary I had initially started out in social media as soon as I graduated college.

And I worked at Wedding Wire, which is now The Knot Wedding Wire. So, I started very junior. I started as an intern, came in, was doing a lot of copywriting for social and I really worked my way up and eventually ended up overseeing all the social and then managing the paid media program or the paid social for Wedding Wire.

And then I eventually got recruited to Under Armour managing their paid social media. And as my time at Under Armour came to a close before I left and went on to my next adventure, I really started dipping my toes into influencer marketing. 

We had just really started partnering with influencers to add more realistic human elements to our paid media content. We went on these influencer trips with these four different influencers, who we basically challenged with bringing our product to life and these different elements. 

And it was really cool because it wasn’t just some like model or some like pro athlete. It was like these were real people who genuinely loved the brand and were really putting our product to the test and really honing in on that storytelling through video content.

And so that was one of my big first tastes of, influencer marketing and working with influencers. From Under Armour, I went into the beauty industry, which I’m still in today. For a brand, Beekman 1802, was an amazing opportunity.

I really got to help them build their social strategy as well as their influencer strategy, brand partnership strategy from the ground up. And while that was a really big challenge, it was so incredibly rewarding. And so there is the director of social media and partnerships. One hat of the many hats that I wore there, was managing and basically building our entire influencer program. 

And so that was one part of my job. But it was really, honestly my favorite part. I have always just been someone that loves connecting with people. It probably drives my husband insane because we’ll be out somewhere and I could just talk to anybody. I love getting to hear people’s stories. Getting to connect with people is something that just really fuels me.

And so that’s, I think where I’ve gotten this love for, just like connecting with people that, you have no idea who they are, you maybe have never met them in person, but you know them so well through the internet that it’s like they do genuinely feel like a friend or like someone you look up to.

And so I really just started loving that aspect of my role there at Beekman 1802. And I came to kinda this, realization that I was like, wow, this is what I like, really love doing. My favorite part of every day was like, if I had an influencer call on my calendar, I was like, yes, I get to so and so talk to today. And even some of those hard conversations like negotiating, it was like that was really what fueled me and, what I was really most passionate about.

And so I came to that realization. I’ve been working in social media content for a long time and probably anyone who works specifically in social knows how tiring it can get posting, scheduling, the content creation.

And so I really just started leaning into influencer marketing more and realizing that there were so many of my skills I developed over the course of my career that was really letting themselves exceptionally well to influencer marketing and kind of the role I played within that, in building that strategy.

So I got extremely fortunate. And at Beekman 1802 we used the platform Traackr, which I was so stoked about when they first came to our office, because also as anyone who works in influencer marketing, knows or has experience, you probably have had a time in your life or career when you have about 72 spreadsheets where you’re trying to track things for influencers or your program, which is absolute chaos.

And I remember when the Traackr client partner came in and showed us the platform and I was just like, wow, I’m never going to have to spend like late nights, hours on hours creating these insane spreadsheets ever again.

And so we ended up using Traackr. At the end of my time at Beekman when I was really starting to realize, my passion really lies in influencer marketing, I came across this opportunity at Traackr as a senior services consultant.

And so I really explored that. I talked with the team and it just seemed like such a good fit. Again, based on my experience of social media, of paid ads, of influencer marketing partnerships, it really was just everything that had felt like it naturally led up to this moment and built this foundation that would really help me excel in this next role.

And that’s how I got to where I am today. So I’m a senior professional services consultant at Traackr, which is the number one data-driven influencer marketing platform used by many brands, huge beauty brands, and smaller beauty brands.

And it’s so exciting. I’m like, at a point in my career where I feel so fortunate and just so excited about what I do. I get to help these huge beauty brands. Everyone from, L’Oréals of the world and, even smaller indie brands, really think about how they can use data to drive their influencer marketing strategy and really bring their story to life in a way that they’re reaching the right consumers on the right platform with the right people to help them do that.

Jessy: You’re like speaking my language, because we talk about, on this show all the time, about just like the importance of data and how so many people are very focused on the creative and rightfully so, like that has to be there as well. But like the data, in my opinion, like I’m such a geek about this stuff. You’ll see that in a second, but it can unlock so many things.

I don’t know. I used to be in theater and I just equate it to, you can put hours into all these rehearsals, like creating this incredible show, and you can, memorize your lines, you can do beautiful costumes, but if nobody shows up to the show, if the audience isn’t there, is it even worth it? 

And so I feel like that’s you could equate it to, the data of influencer marketing because you can do all this in terms of the creative, the data can unlock so many things in terms of who to reach, how to reach ’em, like how you could tweak your content, like so many things.

And so I just think that it’s such an integral piece into the whole pie. So I know that also you consult for brands on their strategies, but specifically around spending efficiency, which I think is really interesting, important and I can certainly rattle off a few reasons why I think so, but I wanna hear directly from you, like why is spend efficiency so hugely important.

Halie: Yeah, great question. So spending efficiency is so important, of course, across every marketing channel. And really I think just as you would, if you were on the media team at a brand and your CMO came to you and wanted to know what was your ROI and your latest, awareness campaign that you’re running on Instagram, you should be able to know what that ROI is. You should be able to rattle that off, hopefully pretty easily.

And I think the same goes for influencer marketing. Really, any time that you’re spending money, that’s an investment on behalf of your brand. And if you don’t know how you’re spending your money, where you’re spending your money, and where it’s most and least efficiently getting spent, then how do you know that you’re really making every single dollar count?

And at the end of the day, especially in the world that we’re living in nowadays, costs are only going up on essentially everything, including how much we’re paying influencers. And so you are gonna really make sure that the money that you’re investing is really getting maximized every single cent of it.

You don’t wanna, of course, make sure that you’re not leaving any money on the table. And I think that’s where spending efficiency just comes into play. There are so many different ways that you can look at it, slice and dice it, but ultimately make sure that you know where your money is going, how it can be spent most efficiently, and if it’s not being spent most efficiently, how you can reallocate it.

At the end of the day, that’s going to be the biggest win because that will ultimately help you know, your company save money. It will help you maximize every single dollar. And at the end of the day, again, every single dollar counts.

Jessy: And so if we were like a fly on the wall and we were privy to some of the conversations that you’re having with your clients, like I’m sure you hear things about oh my God, like having a focus on spending efficiency or making this week or that tweak in terms of focus or, anything in terms of the spend itself, unlocked something in my business and allowed me to really become more efficient, make more money ultimately, and have increased your ROI. What are some of the conversations that you’re having in terms of your secret sauce for optimizing spending efficiency?

Halie: Yeah, that’s absolutely, I can share a few tips on the secret sauce. So I think first things first, and maybe honestly our brands make some of the biggest like initial mistakes is making sure that you’re matching your KPIs to your business objectives, or campaign objectives. Because if you think about it, first and foremost, you can’t make optimizations if you don’t know what you’re optimizing for.

So making sure that, if you’re running a campaign for a new product you might want to likely make your KPI driving awareness. And in order to measure that, you would most likely be looking at video views. 

So in this case, you would want to make sure that when you’re looking at spending efficiency, you’re really honing in on what that CPV or cost per video view looks like because you’re looking to drive awareness at the top of the funnel.

I think where a lot of brands fall into kind of these like pitfalls or traps is where they have a campaign, they have their influencers and they’re setting out to have these influencers accomplish everything for them. And then at the end of the day, they’re like, oh man. Wow, why did my, Influencer A had like such a high clickthrough rate, like CTR or cost per click?

And it’s if you think back to what your original objectives were of this campaign, it wasn’t to drive clicks or it wasn’t to drive traffic sales you were leveraging that person in order to drive awareness. You need to make sure you’re looking at their CPV. Looking at their CPC or CTR is gonna be completely different and you’re gonna set a different goal for yourself if that was your original business objective.

So first things first make sure you’re matching your KPI to your business or campaign objectives so you know what you need to set out to measure. And so you’re setting yourself up for success when you do go to measure that. 

The second thing I would say is to audit your program with spending efficiency benchmarks. So once you decide, okay, I need to really make sure I’m looking at my CPV, my cost per video, you wanna have an idea of, okay, when it comes to that, what’s good, what’s bad? Because you can throw any number out there as your goal. And sure, that’s great, but again, we wanna make sure everything is really driven by data.

So we always recommend, looking at as much historical data as you can. And again, too, make sure you’re looking at apples-to-apples comparisons. If you ran a awareness campaign five years ago for a product that had just launched, that’s gonna look very different in terms of a campaign you just ran last week for one of your like, top performing, most popular evergreen hero products.

So make sure too that there are similarities in what you’re comparing. And again, when you’re looking at that historical data, really dig into that to see, okay, is this the most comparable campaign to this one that I have upcoming? And just use those as your, again, like guardrail of, okay this is what my previous awareness campaign for this skin serum looked like last year around the same seasonal time, so we’re gonna try and, same kind of like level of investment. So this is what we’re gonna aim for this year. 

Or if there are nuances you look at a campaign you ran last year, last quarter, maybe you take into consideration the fact, okay, we ran this campaign, it was for the same product, but it was in Q4 so we know that we invested a lot heavier into it, we had a lot of promos, so we’re gonna give ourselves a little bit of grace and maybe give ourselves a little bit more of a range of a CPV that we’re aiming for, knowing that there’s some nuance there. 

So I think that’s really important. And then for the third part of, optimizing your spend and looking at spend efficiency is again, going back to the idea of making sure you know who your most efficient or inefficient partners are.

And one thing that we love doing to help our clients really understand this in a visual way. I’m a super, visual person as much as I am with numbers. But there’s a really easy way to see this. And actually, I was just talking with Stephanie and we have it on our Instagram, if you do go there, there’s this really good graphic and it’s super simple. It’s this scatter plot. There are three different colors on it, and you’ll see all these dots. 

This is a best practice that we have to help brands plot out or map out their influencers to understand their efficiency and who is like your top performer, who are influencers you might be activating that aren’t doing so great for you, or maybe you need to use on a more like targeted basis.

And so all it really comes down to is just mapping your influencer’s performance out in terms of spend and performance, on a scatter plot, on your Y axis, you put the cost of the influencer on your X axis, and you have their performance. So the further you are over to the right on the X axis and lower, you are, that’s someone you didn’t really spend a ton on, but they drove really good performance for you.

Whereas if you think closer to your Y axis and really high, that would be someone you spent a ton of money on, and they’re so far over, that means they had very little performance to show for it. 

And so that’s one thing that we really like doing because it gives you an actual visual and you can plug in your spend efficiency benchmark as like a line on the chart, and that way you see super clearly right in front of you. Okay. Anyone below my spend efficiency benchmark, overperformed or performed above the benchmark, essentially. They were more efficient, they drove stronger performance at a lesser cost than someone who’s above that line. And then even above the line, it’s not just red, you can create your own almost quadrants.

So you could have like an orange or red, a yellow to help you understand, okay, if someone’s just above the line means that, yeah, they perform below average, but it doesn’t necessarily mean stay away from them or run. It just means you need to think about how you use them strategically.

Jessy: Exactly. Exactly. No, and I appreciate that so much. That resonated earlier on even though I was like, okay, so let’s say someone isn’t necessarily performing at their peak and or what you hope that they achieve, but is there a place for those influencers? So maybe I’d love to hear a little bit about that. For a variety of different reasons you might work with certain influencers who maybe they’re like somewhere in the middle or like maybe low performing for that specific campaign or that specific product. Like what are other ways that you may still be able to utilize them in other ways?

Halie: Yeah, that’s a great point. So let’s say you have an influencer who’s like right above the line, and let’s call it, they’re in your orange range. So like they’re not great, but they’re not in the green, they’re not terrible, they’re not in the red. That might be someone who, let’s say you’re, a skincare brand and you’re trying to really improve the perception of your brand being sustainable.

That person might cost you a little bit more because you’re using them more strategically to help change the perception of your audience and how sustainable you come across. So maybe they’re a little bit more niche, and so they might cost a little bit more, but they’re allowing you to tap into a new audience, so you’re using them in a really strategic way.

So again, just keeping in mind, okay, this might be my CPV for this more niche audience. I know that their overall audience isn’t really aware of my brand too much yet. It’s probably a bit newer to them, but ultimately they’re helping me tap into this new audience, and reach these people that probably haven’t heard of us much before, so I’m willing to pay a little bit more for them. 

I think there’s also something to be said, not every single piece of content from an influencer right off the bat is gonna hit home or stick with their audience. And a lot of times too, that kind of comes back to the working relationship between the influencer and the brand.

Maybe you have, five deliverables that you’ve contracted with an influencer, and the first one is, doesn’t turn out exactly how you were hoping. They’re still learning the brand. And maybe because it’s your first time working with them, you didn’t give them a ton of creative freedom.

So they were, working with the script you gave them if you did, or they didn’t really feel comfortable fully letting their personality shine through in the content. Maybe that kind of led to that. 

I think there’s something to be said for definitely giving them a couple of chances and seeing, just testing and learning. Is there a certain type of their content or a certain style of their content that really performs well when they’re talking about your product or, maybe you do find out at the end of it, their audience just is not resonating with your product? They might create really great content for other products or other brands. Our product and our brand in them are just not jiving with their audience, and it’s really inefficient for us, so we need to maybe take some risks, and find some new people who might be a better fit.

Jessy: Yeah. No, I appreciate you saying that so much cuz. It’s a lot of pressure from the perspective of the creator or their manager to knock it out of the park to use your words the first time around.

And so I appreciate that level set, which is, to give them another chance. Ultimately 

Halie: Yeah. 

Jessy: is there something more that we could be doing as a brand to say, we love this element of what you do, can we tweak it the next time around to give them another opportunity to show what they can do?

Because, from the creator’s perspective too, like every partnership is unique. Every partner has different needs. And so it can be challenging to like bounce from partner to partner to partner. And I know from a creator’s perspective, this has been the case for years. Their ideal is just to stick with one partner for a longer period of time.

And it’s like any working relationship, right? Like you hire an employee, they don’t know how to be your best performer from day one. There’s a learning curve, there’s an opportunity there for training or for feedback and things like that. 

So, I think some people can fall into the trap of data feeling like it makes the environment black and white and I feel the more data you have, the more informed decisions that you can make. But we’re dealing with human beings and in terms of the creators, in terms of the audience, there’s so many variables. And so it just helps you make more informed decisions, but it doesn’t necessarily have a bright line test where it’s okay like we’re gonna cut the fat. These influencers aren’t for us. 

There may still be some juice to get from them. And I hope that the data that people get are just indicators of these people, we need more from them. And there’s something more to do here. 

I’m curious though, from your perspective, I hear a lot of people talk about, obviously wanting to target the right audiences and wanting to make sure that the content is best for them, even from the selection process in the first place.

Wanting to make sure that you’re tapping into utilizing influencers whose audiences are right for this specific product. I’m curious from your perspective, like what can people do to like, to seek that out? 

I’m curious how granular we can get these days in terms of identifying the correct audience for the brands.

Halie: Yeah, absolutely. So I think, shameless plug with Traackr but that’s one of the things that’s really interesting and super valuable about the platform is that you not only can use it to just discover influencers where, you’re just typing in a word or typing in a profile or, back in the, I feel like olden days, but it’s really only a couple years ago I feel like where you’re just doing the endless scroll to find influencers where you’re like tapping through one to get to another.

And Traackr actually has some really cool capabilities where you can discover influencers based on not only what characteristics do they have what interests do they have, where they shop-type things. There are brand affinities, but you can actually do a reverse search where you’re looking at audience attributes.

So you can look at the like age of their audience. You can look at their location. You can look at the interests of their audience. And so I think that’s what can make it really successful is making sure you understand okay, I don’t need to just think about my influencer and what they like and that kind of thing.

But really who are they talking to? Who’s following them and looking to them for this advice? And I think before you even get to that part, it’s really understanding your brand and knowing your brand inside and out, and understanding, When we’re posting our own social media, like who are those people that are interacting with our brand? Who are the people that are shopping for our brand? What does our consumer demographic look like?

And so I think it really comes down to first and foremost, knowing your brand inside and out so that you have a very clear picture of who your audience is, or at least who you’re intending to reach, and then doing that kind of work back reverse method to say, okay, I’m looking to reach the 25 to 34-year old female living in the metropolitan area who is, a professional in their career. They’re like VP, CMO level type person. And really understanding like who that person is, what makes them tick, what their interests are, even from an inspirational and more kinda like realistic point of view, because I think people also follow influencers for different things.

And just really knowing and understanding your brand and who are those people who are resonating with your brand? I think that’s first and foremost, making sure you understand that. That way you can then find the influencers that are really reaching those people the best and, resonating.

And I think too, just going beyond even just a simple search, but even going into the influencer’s content and seeing okay, who are these people that are most frequently interacting with them, commenting and really getting a sense of who they are in their personas I think is really important.

Jessy: And can you speak a little bit more to that? 

You’re saying that people follow influencers for different things. Speak more about that. I’d love to hear more.

Halie: Yeah, so I think maybe especially in this day and age, maybe TikTok has even sprouted this more, but I think at least from even my own perspective as a consumer, I follow people that for different reasons. So I might follow Rosie Londoner for example, she’s this European influencer and she travels all over Europe, has the most amazing videos of just these beautiful places she’s visiting.

And it’s like I follow her because I’m just so inspired by where she’s going, what she’s doing, even though there’s a pretty good chance that I’m not going to Myorca or Greece anytime in the near future here. 

Jessy: Never say never.

Halie: That’s true. I follow her because I just, it’s like that time for your brain to kinda take a break and it’s like something that’s more aspirational that kinda just makes you feel good and takes your mind off other things. 

So I think there are those types of influencers that people may follow. Maybe they can’t afford that $10,000 a-night stay at a hotel or that Fendi bag that they’re wearing, but to them, it’s oh, that’s like cool and shiny and it’s just more aspirational.

Meanwhile, I also follow a lot of influencers who I constantly look to for whether it’s like advice on being a mom or products that are like must-haves for moms and I’m constantly following them because I’m like, oh gosh, she has that. I need to go and buy that right now off Amazon. 

So I think there are influencers for different purposes for different people. And I think for a brand too, it’s important to understand how audiences are interacting with influencers. Is there a certain audience that maybe is over-indexing for actually purchasing from an influencer versus just engaging with them or watching their videos? And really trying to dig more into that, I know can get super granular.

But I think there are a lot of different ways you can look at audiences and analyze them. And also understand, I think a lot of brands get so focused sometimes on certain audiences. They’re like, great, we’re hitting these audiences, but, and we’re getting all this awareness from these people. But maybe you’re also oversaturating an audience. 

People follow a lot of the same influencers too, my friends follow probably the same hundred influencers that I follow. So I think there’s also an opportunity to look for new audiences that you might not think of and you might not be tapping into. And you can only do that if you understand who you are reaching, so…

Jessy: A hundred percent. Yeah. I think that, from a spending efficiency perspective, right? I can assume that most people are like, all right, why can I get the most bang for my buck? But, I don’t know. Over time I think things have to shift and evolve constantly. And so there may also be moments maybe for a new product line.

Or you may just wanna tap into a new audience as well. And I can also imagine that it’s important to probably, on a somewhat regular cadence continue to check in and see like has this audience changed at all or if is there a slightly different audience that I wanna tap into.

Were we completely correct the first time that we like, identified who our audience is, like maybe there are tweaks to make to that over time? 

I’m curious, like lately, if there are any sort of marketing trends that have stood out to you lately. Ones that you’re like, oh my God, they’ve been doing it so well. Like for me it’s not really a trend, but like everyone’s talking about Barbie.

This marketing budget must be over the top. But if you had this giant marketing budget, would you be doing things that Barbie’s been doing? They’ve been they seem like throwing spaghetti at the wall just in terms of they’ve been doing a little bit of everything.

But I’m curious from your perspective, have there been any marketing trends that have really stood out to you, that have really impressed you lately?

Halie: Yeah, that’s a good question. I’m trying to think. I feel like there are so many new trends constantly. I think two things that really stand out to me are, one, I think brands are really flipping the way that they’re just approaching digital media overall. And I feel like this almost plays into this idea of The Barbie movie, and it’s like maybe 10 years ago, or maybe not that long ago, there would’ve been just maybe like a big, commercial on TV for the new Barbie movie.

And it’s that would’ve been it. They would’ve spent, X million dollars in getting this spot and it would’ve been like, okay, cool, we did our commercial, we’re done, we checked our box, kind of thing. 

But now I think that brands and companies, they aren’t just looking for those. Big one and done like flashy moments. They’re really looking to influencers, creators, and just like everyday consumers for this more like cadenced approach and like getting people really excited and like drumming up the buzz and leaning into not just influencers, but like your everyday consumers to get excited and bring them in to be a part of things.

And I think Barbie is such a great example and just the whole Barbie movie, especially when they first started talking about it and everyone was posting that like Barbie meme, it’s like you don’t have to be an influencer to share that meme and like it to be funny, I know a bunch of my friends did and everything.

And so I think just an overarching trend is not just waiting for those big flashy moments, and not just looking to one platform, but really having that whole omnichannel approach and then also leaning into people of all follower sizes. And really leaning into your everyday consumers to be some of your biggest players when it comes to digital, word of mouth.

So, I think that’s one thing and I’m really excited to see that. I think especially within the beauty space, it’s huge because, you think about when you’re talking to your girlfriend over dinner and she’s oh my gosh, I just bought this amazing pair of jeans. They, make my butt look so good. I feel so thin in them and like you’re like, oh, I need to go and buy those like asap.

And you trust her, because she’s giving you her word and like her approval on something. And I think we’re just starting to see more and more that, everyday consumers, you don’t have to be a creator influencer.

I think people are just getting more comfortable and more used to just sharing their opinion and review on something simply because they love it. And I think it’s just so powerful. And I think we’re gonna start seeing brands tap into that a lot more because it’s just so authentic.

They don’t really have any skin in the game. Just, someone like me, I have not even a thousand followers on Instagram, and I don’t have a Maybelline Internet coming and paying me any money, but I share things that I love simply because I love them and I want people who may also be interested in them or may also have the same problem as me too, experience that as well.

So I think, the creator economy, or even consumer economy I would call it, is something that’s on the rise and is gonna be really interesting. 

And then I also think, the brands who are really understanding social and influencers, again, going back to this idea where it used to be like, you have your big spot and that’s it, and that’s your shiny, flashy moment.

And then it’s okay, I hope we get a lot of sales. I think brands are really being a lot more strategic and how they’re repurposing content. I think Old Navy was actually one of the brands that I first saw really lean into this, where they didn’t create a commercial for TV or like I don’t think it was Netflix I saw on, but one of the streaming platforms, they didn’t create a commercial for that. They actually created a TikTok ad and then they ran it on that platform as a commercial. And I think brands are getting a lot smarter in terms of, okay, where are we investing this money?

Influencer marketing is no cheap channel to be investing in, but if you know how to really maximize it and make your investment worth it, I think it can be super fruitful for you. So I think those brands that are thinking about how they can really use their influencers across different aspects of their funnel in different media channels, whether it’s even, using their influencers on the face of their end cap at Alta it’s just different ways that they’re really bringing to life these more human, authentic elements into every aspect of their marketing channel.

Jessy: And like I agree with you wholeheartedly, a hundred percent. And I’ve seen people do it and I think that’s like where things are going, but I also like, I empathize with people on the brand side who are like having to omnichannel to like the millionth degree, and there’s just so much more to do I think of like we’re talking a lot about the Barbie movie, but it’s pretty cool to see what they’re doing.

And I agree. Like I’ve noticed your regular person who does not consider themselves a creator or an influencer is posting about the Barbie movie, and how incredibly impactful that is, how they’re tapping into that many more people because of it. 

And first of all, I guess my first question is, do you think those tactics still fall under influencer marketing? Should that be under that team still, or do you think that should fall under somebody else? 

Halie: That’s a really good question. I feel like so many things fall under the influencer marketing teams nowadays. And these teams are some, like the most nimble, lean teams that are doing so much. So I don’t know. I almost think where brands might see the most success just from my own experience even, is when it’s a combination of like influencer teams and your social teams.

Because when you think of influencers and if you’re an influencer manager or director of influencer, whatnot, a lot of your role is gonna be managing the strategy or developing the strategy for how your influencers are bringing your marketing to life, your marketing message product, et cetera and that’s your focus, that your strategy, and then the relationships, which I don’t think, a lot of times I think it’s very understated how much time and effort goes into managing influencer relationships.

It’s huge. Managing a completely separate media partner essentially, but multiple of them. And so I think it’s like that’s the part where people who are on influencer teams really excel, and that’s what they should hopefully be really honed in on. 

Whereas like social teams, I think they bring to life that aspect of okay, here’s our brand content, here’s how our brand shows up on social, here’s how we’re gonna respond to people on social.

And there’s even like a little bit of customer service, I think that’s now like bleeding its way into social teams as well. And so I almost think it’s, I don’t know if it just lies within one team. I think it has to be a joint effort in order for it to be really successful from an influencer side of things and social media side of things to come together and say okay, we’re launching this.

What’s our social listening strategy gonna be? How are we going to identify these bigger players talking about our brand or driving buzz? How are we gonna address the everyday creators or consumers who are talking about our buzz and really, engage with them? 

Because it’s a lot. You create this, you almost spark the fire with your big influencer players and then it’s that creates this whole groundswell of creators and consumers that are smaller.

And then you get all that other content and social listening that has to be done. So I don’t know, that might not be the best answer, but I think it probably would have to really come from two different teams and really a joint team effort there because it’s a lot. And I think that’s how it can be most successful.

Jessy: I think that one thing that I appreciate from the way that you’re thinking about it is because I can imagine that each of those teams has feedback from the influencers, the creators, or just their experience with the work that can inform and support the other team. I’ve also observed how many opportunities are missed because so many people aren’t really communicating with each other.

So I actually really really appreciate that answer. And like maybe there’s just a bit that each team can do, or at the very least they should talk because there’s so much that can be learned from their respective sides. And I don’t think enough people, really appreciate, the subtle differences between the social team and the influencer team and things like that.

But at least the ideal right, is that they’re working together and they’re communicating and stuff like that. I guess this sort of leads into, to me, it sounds a little bit like user-generated content, which is another, huge thing that’s had a bit of a resurgence lately.

I was on my Instagram the other day and on the back end, of my account. So not a huge account by any means. It’s talking about do you wanna get, your UGC from your audience. And there are certain accounts, of course, that this functionality has been rolled out to them.

And there’s just more of a focus to your point on the everyday consumer and more people, I think, are inspired to create cool content based on stuff that they see and experience in their everyday life. And again, it’s all about opportunities. So I just feel like it’s an opportunity for a brand to perhaps be efficient with their spending.

Perhaps they don’t even have to pay for that content, or perhaps they do, but at the very least, it’s gonna be like significantly less than what they would pay, a huge creator, 

Halie: Yeah, I think such a cool and standout example of this actually is Urban Decay. A couple of months ago, they had someone and she had a fairly like small following on TikTok. I can’t remember exactly how much, but she actually shared a video of her opening, like her product, she just went and got at the store.

She was like, oh, I’m gonna do like a hall to show you what I got. And she was all excited about this Urban Decay product and I’m pretty sure it was a bronzer. And she opened it and the like palette of the bronzer was missing, like the actual bronzer. And so she shared that kind of like calling out Urban Decay and any brand, you have all those different options when something like that happens.

You can hide, push it under the rug, or a lot of brands just respond and are like, oh, so sorry. Reach out to our customer service. And Urban Decay took such a bold and intentional approach back to this consumer really showing how much they cared and that they were truly listening to her and what she had to say.

They ended up creating this video that like, basically was them kinda like laughing at themselves and showing humility, like we messed up. Oh my God, I can’t believe we did that and we’re gonna make it right. Though the comments on this TikTok video were so phenomenal. If I was the brand manager at Urban Decay, I would’ve just been like celebrating because the comments were just amazing.

They were so many people that were like, oh my gosh, like this is how brands need to do it. I’m going to buy Urban Decay products right now. Like way to go Urban Decay. And just by them simply taking the time, I think it was their, social community manager and maybe someone from their influencer team, but just taking five minutes maybe to make that video wasn’t anything special.

It was them just sitting in their office showing we’re human. We make mistakes. Yes, we’re a brand, it happens, but we wanna make it right at the end of the day. And like they came back so quickly.

And they shared that video, and had a great response, super positive. And then they ended up, of course, sending this woman a whole slew of products to make up for it.

And she ended up posting about it. And she posted, I think maybe actually two to three, like Halls and unboxing when they sent her that, product. And they ended up getting I wanna say, a couple of million views completely earned. And it’s things like that so simple, but just showing that you’re listening, showing your consumers you care, you understand what they’re saying, can just speak volumes.

And for them, it paid off hugely. And so I think more brands just need to pay attention to that and think about those small things that can really speak volumes and drive success.

Jessy: I love that. And also just like infusing any bit of humility into something. Like we’re not just a big brand. Like we have real people that work for us. We’re human too. And I think could go such a long way because people resonate with it. And it’s also, unfortunately, it’s unusual.

Like you don’t, see that a lot. It’s rare, which is like wild of course. And the timeliness of it, right? The ability to have someone who is listening to identify the thing and pretty quickly turn around a response to it. I feel like the Wendy’s of the world are like so good about that.

It’s been years, they’re so well known, like on Twitter of all places where their responses to things are hilarious, and a tweet will go viral because they have the authority. Somebody on their team has the authority to just respond in real time without obviously getting a ton of different approvals.

There’s trust there and the responses are so good. They’re so good. 

Okay. So I would love to slightly shift because I wanna do a little rapid-fire question and answer with you so our audience can get to know you even more. 

So my first question for you is, what is your favorite app on your phone?

And it can be social media or otherwise.

Halie: Yes. So I feel a lame answer, but I would have to say Instagram. I feel like through and through will always be an Instagram, Stan Og. So I feel like I probably spend the most time on Instagram. Whether it’s just like mindlessly scrolling, watching stories, or my favorite influencers, I definitely fall victim to shopping quite a bit on Instagram.

Even though I’m like, I’m falling victim to my own tactics, I hope. But I would say Instagram and then, also I love like a good, probably back from my social media content creation days. I love a good editing app and The Tezza app is like my go-to for editing. I probably post maybe twice a year on my own Instagram, which I feel is maybe a common thing among people who have spent a lot of time in their career on Instagram. But yeah, it has an app. I love it. 

Jessy: Tezza and Instagram. I love it. Okay.

 What is your biggest motivation?

Halie: I’d probably have to say, my family. I have a son who’s two years old and actually, I have another son who is gonna be born in August. But I think becoming a mom has really inspired me and motivated me because I used to be like, very much heads down all the time, so just buried in my work.

And I still am very much like that, but I think for me it has a new angle and a new approach where I am really motivated to do well in my career, show up every day and give it my all and pursue my passion. I’m so passionate about what I do and I’m so thankful that I get to do that.

And when I think on it, I don’t want my son to be 10 years be like, oh gosh, like I never gotta see my mom. She was always too busy working and doing this and doing that. I want them to be able to see wow, my mom worked her butt off so that we could have this, amazing life.

And she followed her passion and really showed me that, you don’t have to just pick one thing over another. You can have a great family balance as well as have a career that you love and enjoy. And I think that’s really important. And yeah, I think it definitely my family, so.

Jessy: That’s good. I appreciate that so much. I think it’s such a struggle for so many like moms, especially like in the influence space because there’s so much going on. It’s not the type of job where you can check in, check out like a nine to five by any means. It sounds like you’re in the camp that you love what you do as well.

It’s not like you are dreading going to work as you enjoy it. It’s just, there’s a lot involved and it’s many hours, but like you’re enjoying the work that you do. 

I’m a parent as well, so it’s when you do inevitably have to like to have focus shifted away from your kid for a moment to do work, or they stay a little bit late at school because your meeting ran long or whatever it is.

Like how do you integrate that in a healthy way that feels good to you and purposeful as a parent? And the ideal is that you’re like teaching them something, that you’re teaching them something that like, balance is such a hard thing to achieve, the goal is some sort of balance. It’s never gonna be equal though. I don’t know. I don’t know how you feel about that. It’s never, easy. 

Halie: I do think too, becoming a parent has taught me so much more about time management because I’m like, okay, if I want to, have from seven to eight to like just solely be with my son and focus on him and do something fun together. I need to focus hard during the day. I need to get my stuff done.

It totally changes everything, but it gives you a lot of new perspectives on things that I think are really helpful and can be applied to your work life in a lot of different ways, even just from time management and just, priorities.

I also have a friend who’s a nurse and I used to get so worked up when I was like younger in my career about certain things. Oh my gosh, like I didn’t send this one email. You feel like it’s the end of the world. And like I’d be talking to my friends and my nurse friend would be like, oh, this happened today and this person, you hear all these crazy stories and you’re like, okay, that’s a good check.

I’m not saving lives here at the end of the day. No one’s relying on me to be able to breathe right now. I’m good. I can wait. There are other priorities. So I think too, just keeping your priorities in check and having just a new perspective is really helpful.

Jessy: If there was any advice though, that you can give to working moms who work in influencers and maybe have a young kid, because I feel like the younger they are, the more they need from you what advice would you give them?

Halie: Oh man. I feel like I’m constantly seeking out advice. I think if I could say one thing, it would be just give yourself grace. I think so many times, like I, especially now being a mom, I think we’re so hard on ourselves. 

I was talking with another coworker about this no offense to men your partner or whoever is helping you raise your child, but like the mom or the sole caregiver, I think has such a mental load that you’re carrying and you just constantly are like, okay, like what are we having for dinner? What email do I need to send? Like your brain just never shuts off. 

 I think it can actually be really easy sometimes to get down on yourself and feel like, oh man, I only accomplished three things on my to-do list today.

But I think just giving yourself grace and like taking a step back and celebrating like the small wins. Like maybe you didn’t have the greatest day at work, but maybe you also just like potty trained your child. Or made it through a day without them screaming. Or you got your full eight hours of sleep at night.

Like I think there are little wins you can celebrate along the way. And just remember to step back, give yourself grace, and remember to that other people you work with are also parents. People get it. It’s like you’re not alone. And I think just, yeah, giving yourself grace. Sometimes you just gotta. 

Jessy: A hundred percent. Yeah. And finding your community too, like just finding people that understand. That’s such good advice.

My last question is, for just to get to know you, is just what is something that no one knows about you?

Halie: This is a good one. I was asking my husband this last night, and I was like, what is something that no one knows or maybe other people don’t know? And honestly, I was stuck and I was like, I might be a really boring person actually. 

Jessy: Or maybe you’re just that transparent and open.

Halie: Or maybe I’m just really transparent. 

One thing I did think of though and relates back to my career in the beauty industry is actually when I was young, probably in middle school, or high school, I really wanted to be a dermatologist because I had absolutely terrible skin. 

I still look back on at pictures these days and I’m like, oh my God. If only I had an influencer to tell me what products to buy. But I really wanted to be a dermatologist because I was extremely extremely self-conscious about my acne. I would get shots in my face and I would get these chemical peels and they were so painful and all this stuff.

And I just thought, if I could be a dermatologist one day, I can help people, especially girls who feel like me and are so self-conscious, I could help them feel so much better. That would be great.

And so I always really wanted to do that, except I’m also like the best person ever. I’ve got passed out at getting my blood pressure taken. It’s the weirdest thing, but I was like, yeah, maybe like a career with needles and things isn’t the greatest route for me. So I obviously forego that.

But I think it’s come full circle because even though I’m no dermatologist, I’m not a skincare influencer, I still feel this kind of connection to helping brands get their message across and help people, find the right products, and discover solutions for their problems.

And I just think back to man, if I had a Dr. Shaw that I was following when I was in 10th grade and suffering from terrible cystic acne, I would’ve felt so much better knowing I wasn’t the only person going through this, and like seeing this and getting recommendations. So, yeah, that’s my unknown fact. I used to really wanna be a dermatologist. 

Jessy: I love that though. What I hear from that is that you have this desire to like genuinely help people and also that you turned like a negative experience of your own. You’re like, I wanted to help people to not experience what I experienced and I could totally see a through line working in influencer marketing for sure.

Halie: Connected somehow, right?

Jessy: Totally connected.

Halie: Influencer marketing within the beauty space. It just really shows you like, all the connections that can be made and just how relatable everyone is to each other. Like even if you live across the country or in a country, like everyone experiences the same problems.

And it’s people like influencers that all connect us and makes us feel a little bit more relatable and like we’re all going through the same thing, thinking of the same solution. So…

Jessy: A hundred percent. How do you think influencer marketing has changed in the past year? And also like where do you see it going from here?

Halie: Yeah, this is a great question because I feel like influencer marketing changes so fast. It’s just, it’s funny to me to think about even just my career two years ago and how different it looks now, and what the landscape looked like. 

But I think one of the biggest things, first and foremost is that brands and influencers are recognizing that building trust really trumps portraying perfection.

And so I think, brands realize this because they’re not really asking influencers anymore can you please take the perfect product shot with a flat lay and have my product like this? And they’re giving influencers and creators more creative freedom and looser reigns to bring their product to life how they want, show up, and show up with their product in a way that’s, a lot more relatable and what works with them.

And one of my tips to clients is always don’t try and integrate an influencer’s content into your product. Don’t make them fit into your box. Think about how your product can like fit into their box and their storytelling because they know what works, they know what is gonna resonate, so you have to trust them.

And I think we’re just seeing like the rise of that. So much more creative freedom even with, I think especially getting ready with my content. Just thinking about how that’s evolved in the last year. Get ready with me used to be like an influencer in their bathroom mirror. 

Okay, I’m gonna take you through my morning skincare routine. And showing their like lineup of the same brand of products, which let’s be real, no one uses the same brand most of the time for every single step of their routine. And now we’re seeing get ready with mes are like so much more real relatable. It’s like the influencer with their hair in a towel.

Maybe they’re a little hungover from the night before and like they’re just going through their morning routine, doing their skincare, and not necessarily saying this is the product I’m using, but maybe just quickly mentioning it or just showing the product. I think Alex Earl really helped give rise to this with her get ready with me is where she’s talking about like her night out before.

 But it’s just so much more authentic. It’s more storytelling. It adds such a more real element to their content. And so I think that is ultimately helping build trust with their audience. Their audience doesn’t feel so much like I’m watching an infomercial and is more just like I’m getting ready with you for the day.

So I think that building trust definitely trumping that portrayal of perfection is something that’s huge and we’re definitely seeing a lot more of, even in different, just like how certain content themes are, transpiring. 

And then I think we’re also seeing a lot of multiple diversified revenue streams. And I find this really personally fascinating. Couple of years ago it was like influencers just doing sponsored content. That’s how they’re making their money, whether it’s sponsored content and affiliate commission. 

And nowadays we’re seeing so many influencers creating their own product collections. You have Danny Austen with Divvy, you have Courtney Shields creating Dibs. And like these products aren’t just like a one-time thing that, they create and then it goes into the background.

Like I think of Divvy and that’s gotten picked up by Alta, which is huge and so cool. And I think these influencers are just starting to realize all the experience that they’ve built up and how they can leverage that experience as kind of power and their own skillset to either create new products, again, with diversifying income streams, maybe they are like investing in a brand. Maybe they’re sitting on the board of a brand playing a larger role than just an influencer, maybe an advisor. 

Also, a lot of influencers starting to look at different channels that they historically haven’t tapped into. Whether that’s podcasting or even YouTube and Twitch. Dipping their toes into some different platforms I think is really interesting.

And I think we’re gonna see more of that as a lot of these platforms are also, really battling head to-head for influencers’ attention because wherever the influencers are going, brands are going, and wherever brands are going, the ad dollars are going.

And so I think we’re gonna see a lot more incentives from platforms for creators in order to really get them on those platforms as their distribution channel.

And then I think the last, just two quick things here on how the industry is changing. I think brands are really starting to understand the value in longer-term partnerships versus one-offs. We’re seeing that influencer costs are definitely on the rise, and so I think there’s a financial aspect there. If you’re looking to plan out your year and this influencer works really well with your brand, they’re a great partner, why not invest in them in the long term?

It’s a win-win. You’re getting more exposure for your brand at a more regular cadence. There’s probably a greater likelihood of organic mentions coming out of that because it ultimately feels more organic. They’re using the product really more in their everyday lives versus just a kind of finite period of time.

And for the influencer that’s more money guaranteed in their pocket. So, I think we’re starting to see the longevity of the relationships, which I think is gonna be really interesting. And you start seeing these brands that have more of like communities and collectives and ambassadors, which I think is great. So I think that’s, that other aspect.

And just the authenticity. I think, all sides of everyone are starting to feel this, that consumers aren’t stupid. They’re getting much smarter about being able to sniff out inauthentic influencers and inauthentic product mentions and that kind of thing.

So I think brands that can really leverage influencers who organically show their brand love are gonna be the brands that are gonna win in the long run of things like really starting from that organic mention and growing your relationship built on authenticity.

Jessy: I love that. I love the idea of, you mentioning both audiences getting smarter. I think creators are getting smarter. Like everyone is just upping their game, in terms of, diversifying where your money is coming from and your revenue.

I think the reality is that it’s just born out of necessity because I feel like, the budgets for brand partnerships, ebb and flow, and creators are wanting to make a full-time career outta this or make more year over year. And so they’re out of necessity learning that they just have to diversify their revenue. But I think the smart thing to do. And so no matter the reason, the result I think is what’s most important.

And I just absolutely love to see everyone just upping their game, elevating what they’re doing. I think it’s gonna continue to like up our entire industry, which is just gonna benefit everybody. 

It’s been such a pleasure having you on today and it’s been so great. Just like learning more about you and getting your ideas and thoughts on everything.

I have a feeling that our audience is probably gonna wanna get in touch. And so what’s the best way for them to connect with you? And then also to learn more about Traackr?

Halie: Yeah, absolutely. And thank you so much for having me. It’s been such a pleasure. I feel like I could talk about this stuff all day long with you. If anyone wants to connect I would love to. You can definitely connect with me on LinkedIn. My name is just Halie, H A L I E, Soprano. Yeah, so feel free to shoot me a message or anything.

Connect. Would love to connect. And then in terms of Traackr, you have definitely a lot of different ways to connect with Traackr. Our marketing team does a phenomenal job sharing tons of different industry insights, trends, and competitive analysis, on LinkedIn. There are some really great case studies we share too.

And they also frequently do some different webinars on special topics within the influencer marketing industry where they’ve gotten some really amazing speakers. So highly recommend following Traackr on LinkedIn as well as on Instagram. It’s just at, and then T R A A C K R. And there’s just so much snackable information there.

So many good tips from people all across the industry. And then the last two ways to connect, if you want to just visit Traackr’s website, again, it’s 

T R A A C K R. And you can schedule a demo. You can test out, all the different things Traackr has to offer from discovery, management, looking at spend efficiency tools, and competitive benchmarking.

There’s really something for everybody. And then lastly, we also, if you’re interested in spending efficiency more, we are hosting a spend efficiency workshop coming up on July 25th. 

So definitely pay attention on LinkedIn, get signed up for that, as well as go to this site. But yeah, so many ways to connect and I hope everyone enjoys this I look forward to connecting with everyone. And thank you again, Jessy.

Jessy: Yeah, no, thank you so much. And we will link all of that below in the show notes, so it would make it easy for you to check all of that out. I can personally vouch, I’m a huge huge fan of Traackr and now I’m a huge fan of yours getting to know you better, and I love that you’re shouting at LinkedIn. 

Halie: I love LinkedIn.

Jessy: I love it. It’s so good. It’s a social platform for professionals. We’re all professionals and there’s so much good content on there for us. So I encourage all of you guys to connect with Halie and Traackr starting on LinkedIn and then even well beyond that. So thank you so much for joining today and for everyone tuning in. We will see you next week. Bye, guys.

Halie: Bye. Thank you.